From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ob0-f170.google.com (mail-ob0-f170.google.com [209.85.214.170]) by speech.braille.uwo.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0379DC1A06A for ; Sun, 16 Sep 2012 18:04:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by obbwc18 with SMTP id wc18so9015613obb.29 for ; Sun, 16 Sep 2012 15:04:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:x-priority:in-reply-to:date :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=d4W8iFNj5ipaaV48neq2aRghI7onuHOscMJf+7r+fUE=; b=kAjb0JxcYmSg1SC1D3NCS6zf5Qcj+320wP8lqsEzDv3yfwEnSL/kQK2oo0BGNs7vWP yDPMQiv3L89mbN4CEMLN7A8ieKsKQM9kYTnEojPZaPt4dL+qfie5UJDw1qfL4Jv3iAG+ FxC9jgW7Xc8RJnA77KjZXd3pa7ohg6uOcmunc10hCHOTCJ86JlsTe3RuOaJ5MXXOlL1o Y13zTGTnfKhOvupbHhgYU1T6nJSBSQYEPfIZOyPGTgh0SblpjxvVg/xZBbAb8UcWIVOh XNgzled52xb5cHGHb4+sDdUxH+/hjocqnT9pwy6QEWbVW5k5NuWhcwf5GC8IsM7nEMBF KEIQ== Received: by 10.60.172.49 with SMTP id az17mr10193759oec.44.1347833099654; Sun, 16 Sep 2012 15:04:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (cpe-72-191-128-249.stx.res.rr.com. [72.191.128.249]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l9sm6927504oeg.3.2012.09.16.15.04.58 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 16 Sep 2012 15:04:59 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.0 \(1486\)) Subject: Re: speakup todo? From: Alonzo Cuellar X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: <484A753AD18347AC858F64662FFF7B7F@your2c061f0461> Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 17:04:57 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <505617AB.1020700@tysdomain.com> <505638E9.1010706@tysdomain.com> <6B66D7336B7F42E9B1DBEAB072D688D0@your2c061f0461> <484A753AD18347AC858F64662FFF7B7F@your2c061f0461> To: Glenn , "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1486) X-BeenThere: speakup@braille.uwo.ca X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." List-Id: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 22:05:00 -0000 I think the only reason why technology doesn't get made accessible is = because we are a small market. I was only stating my opinion. I know = many users won't go to linux because of the learning curve. I think = though if you aspire to learn something you will. It goes the same for = work or any type of situation involving learning. Our world is not = perfect, we are not perfect, etc. As blind individuals though we have to = take it a step further to make something work. Its a sad thing, but = perhaps later accessibility will be considered. meaning that maybe = technology that is not accessible will be made accessible allowing us to = interface easier. Thats already happening though with iOs and Android = Devices. Which is great. The end user can use what ever they enjoy using. Does it matter to me if = an individual uses Linux? In a way yes because it would certainly help = where accessibility is concerned. But only the user can make the choice = to learn the OS. Most people don't bother because it may be to complex. Since you teach though I can see where having a universal layout would = help. Thats nearly impossible though because every screen reader = interfaces with reading/presenting info differently. I didn't mean to have an attitude or to come off rude. There is just = plenty of choices out there and if the person wants to they can = certainly begin to use what ever screen reader they want. Alonzo On Sep 16, 2012, at 4:51 PM, Glenn wrote: > Actually, it is this attitude among the sighted, that keeps most = technology=20 > from being made accessible to the Blind. > Wow. > Glenn >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "Alonzo Cuellar" > To: "Glenn" ; "Speakup is a screen review system = for=20 > Linux." > Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 4:38 PM > Subject: Re: speakup todo? >=20 >=20 > I think the key bindings are fine. There is no trouble with them at = all. > Always be able to expand your mind set. Even if little progress is = made.=20 > After all, you get more advantages from learning the way other screen=20= > readers work. > I can see where the option might be useful, but if you don't learn it = full=20 > force and always stay trapped in the way jaws works, then you'll never=20= > expand your horizons. > people come to linux expecting it to be something like windows. Its = not and=20 > it probably never will be similar to windows. Its made for you to = explore,=20 > etc. > I was forced in using linux due to an accident I had with my computer. = That=20 > was fine by me though. Ever since then I prefer the unix variances = weather=20 > is be linux or mac. > I'm no programmer by any means, but I do enjoy working with other = operating=20 > systems. > The argument that only techies spend the time to learn new keyboard = commands=20 > is always widely used. I consider that as an excuse. Everyone can = learn how=20 > to use a device weather it be a phone or computer. Maybe the person = may have=20 > difficulty and may not excel where in mastering it, but thats ok. You = can=20 > apply this to any situation. > If we were to stop learning=85 Then we would never excel and stay = trapped in=20 > the mind frame that this or that is to hard. > Learn while you still can. Once you get older it gets harder to learn = and=20 > thats where it might be a problem. >=20 > Alonzo >=20 >=20 > On Sep 16, 2012, at 3:59 PM, Glenn wrote: >=20 >> That is the kind of thinking that will keep Linux in the shadows. >> I teach people how to use screenreaders, and people have a hard = enough=20 >> time >> switching from the mouse to all these keyboard commands. >> When people begrudgingly learn JFW keyboard mappings to some degree, = do=20 >> you >> think they will willing go out to learn different key mappings? >> Only the techie types do that. >> Glenn >>=20 >> ----- Original Message -----=20 >> From: "Littlefield, Tyler" >> To: "Glenn" ; "Speakup is a screen review = system for >> Linux." >> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 3:39 PM >> Subject: Re: speakup todo? >>=20 >>=20 >> I'm not really to worried about JFW key mappings honestly. First it's >> sort of weird, but mainly if they can't get used to using different >> keys, they're never going to live on Linux, at least not in the cli. >> On 9/16/2012 2:34 PM, Glenn wrote: >>> The big one for SpeakUp would be for it to have the option to switch = to >>> JFW >>> key mappings. >>> This will allow many people to switch to Linux easily. >>> Microsoft did this with MS Word, allowing people to use Word Perfect = key >>> mappings. >>> I think this is the only way Linux will ever become any more popular = to >>> screenreader users. >>> Glenn >>>=20 >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Littlefield, Tyler" >>> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." >>> >>> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 1:17 PM >>> Subject: speakup todo? >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Hello all: >>> I'm trying to transfer, and applying for scholarships and all that = I'd >>> like to be able to make some contributions to projects that I can = note. >>> I'm interested in learning more about kernel programming, and I = figured >>> I'd start by working on something I use almost daily. I'm curious = then >>> if there's some sort of todo or improvements speakup could have to = it. >>> I'd also be curious if someone has thought about moving it to >>> userspace--as far as I know, the only thing that we really need the >>> kernel for would be hardware speech (and since serial ports are = dying >>> out that could be a dead point), and accessing the console directly. = How >>> easy would it be then, to have speakup run in userspace, but access = a >>> smaller cut-down version of itself in the kernel to provide the = access >>> to the console we need? >>> We could use sequence files and access the console through /proc. It >>> could return a file of 2-byte chars, which I believe is how it works >>> now--one byte is the color, and the other byte is the ascii value. = The >>> sequence file would just iterate over the console's lines. I'm also >>> curious how we'd handle something like key presses like caps+u to = move >>> up a line etc. >>>=20 >>> If I'm way off here, I'd still like to help out if possible; is = there a >>> todo list around, or stuff people would like to see done? If there = are >>> people willing to answer questions from time to time in terms of the >>> kernel programming, since that's something I've not done before, I'm >>> game to start coding. >>>=20 >>> Another question is then, how do people catch panics? Since I'm not >>> quite cool enough to write code that just works, I'm sure I'll be >>> dealing with panics, but I can't see them on the console and usually >>> it's when speakup goes boom anyway. >>>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> --=20 >> Take care, >> Ty >> http://tds-solutions.net >> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; = he=20 >> that >> dares not reason is a slave. >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Speakup mailing list >> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Speakup mailing list >> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup