From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ob0-f170.google.com (mail-ob0-f170.google.com [209.85.214.170]) by speech.braille.uwo.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 867E5C1A06A for ; Sun, 16 Sep 2012 18:24:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: by obbwc18 with SMTP id wc18so9025900obb.29 for ; Sun, 16 Sep 2012 15:24:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=T22C2957uQNybWEGDNVopfXzrcOUK5sjOrWVK77UCzY=; b=qnrLBfkkht5qE5TrSy4jrqyZjU2vuENLhH1iimr3lPJ0LzMIW3LKYDiK29+fBnikjC w8ixUEOUg2aOxsrkyYjrrLxg0hAjSK1gfQBYzn1407gb+Qwo2y56FlFVr8rywG04OtJe 1ZTH3M7DwLkz9vHtFW+15s8AZuHjr5Vg7GWUVxVmiGgZg4bGojgAsLvWejYmQwmPw5Gu sYrwcoOf3WpkDGcaZsWsUV16wU9QOqac27FwV2EIltHbcY1ToLspchoUQEDSesqgZ+SG 1/E11LNPzzFj56LmPVxNMbVA4lDi4Czd7m5sI2LZYQ38d93Rzk9dH2+DYUAxiIdR0wjZ 62QA== Received: by 10.60.172.49 with SMTP id az17mr10221555oec.44.1347834293186; Sun, 16 Sep 2012 15:24:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (cpe-72-191-128-249.stx.res.rr.com. [72.191.128.249]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id j10sm6929495oej.10.2012.09.16.15.24.52 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 16 Sep 2012 15:24:52 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.0 \(1486\)) Subject: Re: speakup todo? From: Alonzo Cuellar In-Reply-To: <50564F6C.9080200@tysdomain.com> Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 17:24:51 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <906E4883-6554-4C09-93E5-4DEA5EBBAF01@gmail.com> References: <505617AB.1020700@tysdomain.com> <505638E9.1010706@tysdomain.com> <6B66D7336B7F42E9B1DBEAB072D688D0@your2c061f0461> <50564F6C.9080200@tysdomain.com> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1486) X-BeenThere: speakup@braille.uwo.ca X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." List-Id: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 22:24:53 -0000 I agree with Jason and tyler. You have to do whats necessary to learn an = OS. You either take it by the horns and see what you can accomplish or = forget it. Linux may not be an all purpose desktop, but for those who = are willing to use it I'm sure become rewarded later. SAme applies for voiceover and the mac. I had no idea how to use it. It = was just trial and error with me and my brother. Now I can use it just = fine. Alonzo On Sep 16, 2012, at 5:15 PM, "Littlefield, Tyler" = wrote: > >But you already use it, so why should you care if more users take to = Linux? > I really don't either way. People are going to use Linux because they = want to, probably because they want to learn. Linux is not an = all-purpose desktop; ever tried doing your banking from the cli? It's = not something for the end-user. Sure we have projects like Vinux--where = we ship out huge bloated cds with everything in the ubuntu repo that can = fit on it, but even that's not an all-purpose desktop, even though = people swear by it. >=20 > My point though was that by learning Linux (and if you're using = speakup you're using the cli), you have to learn what comes with it. = Whether that's how to set up and configure your cli apps, or how to use = the screen reader. Whatever reader you go with, even NVDA vs Jaws or = Voiceover requires you learn something new, and the shift from Windows = to OSX and Jaws/NVDA to Voiceover is quite drastic, and people still = manage to learn it without jaws keybindings. > On 9/16/2012 3:48 PM, Glenn wrote: >> That is true in a perfect world, but it is not like that, and the = reality is >> as I stated, that very few Blind users will migrate to Linux without >> something familiar to use. >> But you already use it, so why should you care if more users take to = Linux? >>=20 >> Glenn >>=20 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Alonzo Cuellar" >> To: "Glenn" ; "Speakup is a screen review = system for >> Linux." >> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 4:38 PM >> Subject: Re: speakup todo? >>=20 >>=20 >> I think the key bindings are fine. There is no trouble with them at = all. >> Always be able to expand your mind set. Even if little progress is = made. >> After all, you get more advantages from learning the way other screen >> readers work. >> I can see where the option might be useful, but if you don't learn it = full >> force and always stay trapped in the way jaws works, then you'll = never >> expand your horizons. >> people come to linux expecting it to be something like windows. Its = not and >> it probably never will be similar to windows. Its made for you to = explore, >> etc. >> I was forced in using linux due to an accident I had with my = computer. That >> was fine by me though. Ever since then I prefer the unix variances = weather >> is be linux or mac. >> I'm no programmer by any means, but I do enjoy working with other = operating >> systems. >> The argument that only techies spend the time to learn new keyboard = commands >> is always widely used. I consider that as an excuse. Everyone can = learn how >> to use a device weather it be a phone or computer. Maybe the person = may have >> difficulty and may not excel where in mastering it, but thats ok. You = can >> apply this to any situation. >> If we were to stop learning=85 Then we would never excel and stay = trapped in >> the mind frame that this or that is to hard. >> Learn while you still can. Once you get older it gets harder to learn = and >> thats where it might be a problem. >>=20 >> Alonzo >>=20 >>=20 >> On Sep 16, 2012, at 3:59 PM, Glenn wrote: >>=20 >>> That is the kind of thinking that will keep Linux in the shadows. >>> I teach people how to use screenreaders, and people have a hard = enough >>> time >>> switching from the mouse to all these keyboard commands. >>> When people begrudgingly learn JFW keyboard mappings to some degree, = do >>> you >>> think they will willing go out to learn different key mappings? >>> Only the techie types do that. >>> Glenn >>>=20 >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Littlefield, Tyler" >>> To: "Glenn" ; "Speakup is a screen review = system for >>> Linux." >>> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 3:39 PM >>> Subject: Re: speakup todo? >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> I'm not really to worried about JFW key mappings honestly. First = it's >>> sort of weird, but mainly if they can't get used to using different >>> keys, they're never going to live on Linux, at least not in the cli. >>> On 9/16/2012 2:34 PM, Glenn wrote: >>>> The big one for SpeakUp would be for it to have the option to = switch to >>>> JFW >>>> key mappings. >>>> This will allow many people to switch to Linux easily. >>>> Microsoft did this with MS Word, allowing people to use Word = Perfect key >>>> mappings. >>>> I think this is the only way Linux will ever become any more = popular to >>>> screenreader users. >>>> Glenn >>>>=20 >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Littlefield, Tyler" >>>> To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." >>>> >>>> Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 1:17 PM >>>> Subject: speakup todo? >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Hello all: >>>> I'm trying to transfer, and applying for scholarships and all that = I'd >>>> like to be able to make some contributions to projects that I can = note. >>>> I'm interested in learning more about kernel programming, and I = figured >>>> I'd start by working on something I use almost daily. I'm curious = then >>>> if there's some sort of todo or improvements speakup could have to = it. >>>> I'd also be curious if someone has thought about moving it to >>>> userspace--as far as I know, the only thing that we really need the >>>> kernel for would be hardware speech (and since serial ports are = dying >>>> out that could be a dead point), and accessing the console = directly. How >>>> easy would it be then, to have speakup run in userspace, but access = a >>>> smaller cut-down version of itself in the kernel to provide the = access >>>> to the console we need? >>>> We could use sequence files and access the console through /proc. = It >>>> could return a file of 2-byte chars, which I believe is how it = works >>>> now--one byte is the color, and the other byte is the ascii value. = The >>>> sequence file would just iterate over the console's lines. I'm also >>>> curious how we'd handle something like key presses like caps+u to = move >>>> up a line etc. >>>>=20 >>>> If I'm way off here, I'd still like to help out if possible; is = there a >>>> todo list around, or stuff people would like to see done? If there = are >>>> people willing to answer questions from time to time in terms of = the >>>> kernel programming, since that's something I've not done before, = I'm >>>> game to start coding. >>>>=20 >>>> Another question is then, how do people catch panics? Since I'm not >>>> quite cool enough to write code that just works, I'm sure I'll be >>>> dealing with panics, but I can't see them on the console and = usually >>>> it's when speakup goes boom anyway. >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> --=20 >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> http://tds-solutions.net >>> The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: >>> http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud >>> He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; = he >>> that >>> dares not reason is a slave. >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Speakup mailing list >>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca >>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Speakup mailing list >>> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca >>> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup >> _______________________________________________ >> Speakup mailing list >> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Speakup mailing list >> Speakup@braille.uwo.ca >> http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Take care, > Ty > http://tds-solutions.net > The aspen project: a barebones light-weight mud engine: > http://code.google.com/p/aspenmud > He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; = he that dares not reason is a slave. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup