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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2016 23:00:55 -0000 It seems to me that a hardware speech synth isn't that different from a serial console. All you have to do to listen to boot messages is to configure a serial console in your boot loader and plug your serial synth into that same serial port. The problem would be with controlling it with the keyboard. A hardware speech synth has no keyboard. So you'd want the normal virtual console, tty0, to control what's sent to the serial port. The kernel specifications say that keyboard input is taken from the last console configured. Also, stdio and stderr are sent to the last console configured. What we'd want is a console type exactly like tty0 except that it also has the code from a serial console that send text out over the serial port. I am not sure how much control you have over the text that scrolls by on the screen with a virtual console. You'd need to add speakup control keystrokes like numpad-7 to speak the previous line, numpad-5 to speak the current word, etc. On 02/24/2016 11:53 AM, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote: > I got a more definite answer from someone in kernel development -- I > cannot remember who -- but he said that the serial driver should be > written like a hardware device driver and obey all the appropriate > protocols thereof, so if we can figure out, say, how the uart driver > registers the port and have the speakup driver do the exact same thing, > maybe this would work much better. > > John G Heim wrote: > >> Well, as I said, I've been relying more and more upon a braille >> display and software speech. >> >> I can't say it's unfair to say linux is no better than Microsoft >> because I think in this context, it's comparing apples and >> oranges. IMO, it's neiher fair or unfair. It's like saying a dolphin >> is no better than an oak tree. Well, at what? If you want linux to do >> something, you have to do it yourself or maybe pay someone to do it >> for you. >> On the other hand, I would say that developers are ethically required >> to allow accessibility software to work with their code and the linux >> kernel developers have been woefully inadequate in that regard. A year >> or two ago, I took the time to drill down through the functions the >> speakup code was calling to "steal" the serial port. I found it led to >> a function inside the main kernel code (not in staging) that could >> never return a success. I asked about it on the kernel developers >> list. If speakup isn't accessing the serial port the right way, what >> is the right way? The answers I got were BS. The speakup code is not >> very well written, the whole thing should be moved to user space, >> etc. My reaction was like, okay, maybe, but can someone please answer >> the question? But apparently not. It was infuriating. That's when I >> started posting kernels with the function call commented out. >> >> The whole thing just makes no sense. Why even include code that is >> deliberately disabled? Samuel is probably freaking out if he has read >> this far. Someone, probably him, went through a lot of work just to >> get speakup in staging. And, after all, software speech does >> work. That is not trivial. >> >> On 02/24/2016 10:05 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote: >>> May i ask how one finds contingency plans for your ears, your brain, >>> and your processing? smiles. >>> I am not following this debate closely, but it certainly supports my >>> worries about Linux as a main computing solution. If someone is >>> going to remove the door to functionality, or decide for me how I >>> personally accommodate my body differences, then they are no >>> different than say Microsoft. >>> Access is a human right in some places, not a feature. >>> defining that access begins and ends with the individual, which is >>> why the best access uses a foundation allowing for many ways in so >>> to speak. >>> >>> Going back to the corner now, >>> Kare >>> >>> >>> On Wed, 24 Feb 2016, John G Heim wrote: >>> >>>> Well, first of all, I didn't mean to say you shouldn't use a serial >>>> hardware synth. However,IMO, you would be wise to consider >>>> contingency plans. If your livelihood depends on that serial synth, >>>> you'd be wise to begin examining your alternatives. >>>> >>>> Also, I can't promise to debug the kernel code. When I said check >>>> the syslog, I meant for you to check the syslog. If I can find the >>>> time to take a look at it, I certainly will but I can't promise >>>> that. I suspect that what's happening is that when speakup tries to >>>> "steal" the serial port, the return value is no longer just >>>> null. When I last traced back the functions that speakup was >>>> calling to steal the serial port, it was bullstuff. Speakup called >>>> a function that did nothing -- which isn't the fault of the speakup >>>> developers. I suspect that those functions now do something -- >>>> probably not what we want but something. >>>> >>>> It has probably been a year since I last posted a rant on this list >>>> about the linux kernel developers. As I write this, I find myself >>>> getting all worked up about it again. The one good thing about >>>> Trump running for President is that now I have someone I find more >>>> arrogant and irritating than the linux kernel development team. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 02/24/2016 08:29 AM, Tony Baechler wrote: >>>>> On 2/23/2016 6:31 AM, John G Heim wrote: >>>>>> You should check the syslog. There are almost certainly >>>>> messages in > there >>>>>> reporting what is happening. I'll try to compile 4.3 kernels >>>>> for ubuntu > and >>>>>> debian over the next few days. I had planned to automate the >>>>> process. > Every >>>>>> time my ubuntu machines download a new kernel, generate a new >>>>> patched > kernel >>>>>> package. I never got around to it though. I was using a sed >>>>> command to >>>>>> comment out the line that caused serial synths to not work so that >>>>>> automation was possible. Part of the problem here is that I >>>>> have kind of >>>>>> given up on serial synths myself. I have been depending more >>>>> and more on > the >>>>>> combination of a braille display and software speech. It seems >>>>> to me > that >>>>>> using a hardware speech synth is going against the grain these days. >>>>> >>>>> As Karen and others have pointed out, we all have our own >>>>> personal speech >>>>> preferences. In my case, I have multiple reasons for wanting >>>>> serial speech >>>>> to work. I find it easier to hear and understand for one >>>>> thing. There are >>>>> some bugs in the DECtalk Express module which might be easily >>>>> fixed, but >>>>> the last unpatched kernel I know of that actually worked was >>>>> 2.6.32 which >>>>> is no longer supported. Anyway, as requested, here is the dmesg >>>>> output. I >>>>> don't see anything helpful. I did the following: >>>>> >>>>> service espeakup stop >>>>> rmmod speakup_soft >>>>> modprobe speakup_dectlk >>>>> rmmod speakup_dectlk >>>>> rmmod speakup >>>>> modprobe speakup_soft >>>>> espeakup >>>>> >>>>> [ 11.336314] r8169 0000:02:00.0 eth0: link up >>>>> [ 11.336325] IPv6: ADDRCONF(NETDEV_CHANGE): eth0: link becomes ready >>>>> [ 27.013903] releasing synth soft >>>>> [ 27.013975] unregistered /dev/softsynth >>>>> [ 32.824006] speakup: unregistering synth device /dev/synth >>>>> [ 56.630004] speakup: module is from the staging directory, the >>>>> quality >>>>> is unknown, you have been warned. >>>>> [ 56.630896] input: Speakup as /devices/virtual/input/input7 >>>>> [ 56.631031] initialized device: /dev/synth, node (MAJOR 10, >>>>> MINOR 25) >>>>> [ 56.631055] speakup 3.1.6: initialized >>>>> [ 56.631057] synth name on entry is: dectlk >>>>> [ 56.639855] speakup_dectlk: module is from the staging >>>>> directory, the >>>>> quality is unknown, you have been warned. >>>>> [ 56.640036] synth probe >>>>> [ 56.640039] Ports not available, trying to steal them >>>>> [ 56.640042] Unable to allocate port at 3f8, errno -16 >>>>> [ 56.640044] Dectalk Express: not found >>>>> [ 56.640045] dectlk: device probe failed >>>>> [ 67.012005] speakup: unregistering synth device /dev/synth >>>>> [ 70.985966] speakup: module is from the staging directory, the >>>>> quality >>>>> is unknown, you have been warned. >>>>> [ 70.986851] input: Speakup as /devices/virtual/input/input8 >>>>> [ 70.986983] initialized device: /dev/synth, node (MAJOR 10, >>>>> MINOR 25) >>>>> [ 70.987006] speakup 3.1.6: initialized >>>>> [ 70.987008] synth name on entry is: dectlk >>>>> [ 70.987055] speakup_soft: module is from the staging directory, the >>>>> quality is unknown, you have been warned. >>>>> [ 70.987193] synth probe >>>>> [ 70.987230] initialized device: /dev/softsynth, node (MAJOR >>>>> 10, MINOR >>>>> 26) >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Speakup mailing list >>>> Speakup@linux-speakup.org >>>> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup >>>> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Speakup mailing list >> Speakup@linux-speakup.org >> http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup >>