From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: by befuddled.reisers.ca (Postfix, from userid 65534) id 1102E1EF825; Thu, 9 Oct 2014 11:31:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta1.math.wisc.edu (mta1.math.wisc.edu [144.92.166.23]) by befuddled.reisers.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 522591EF82D for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2014 11:30:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mta1.math.wisc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEA0E49CF44 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2014 10:30:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mta1.math.wisc.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mta1.math.wisc.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0E7SzG3lydVJ for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2014 10:30:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mta1.math.wisc.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mta1.math.wisc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 875DE49CF3F for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2014 10:30:00 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on mta1.math.wisc.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.0 required=6.5 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from mailhost.math.wisc.edu (erdos.math.wisc.edu [144.92.166.25]) by mta1.math.wisc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2014 10:30:00 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [144.92.166.19] (vv507j.math.wisc.edu [144.92.166.19]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailhost.math.wisc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 849E04206EB for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2014 10:30:00 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <5436A9EF.30604@math.wisc.edu> Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2014 10:29:51 -0500 From: "John G. Heim" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/24.8.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." Subject: Re: the push to get rid of CONFIG_VT in the kernel and the future of Speakup References: <87zjd64c16.fsf@mushroom.PK5001Z> <543593E4.5040400@gmail.com> <54359B9E.10203@verizon.net> <5435AE9F.1090306@math.wisc.edu> <5435B544.2090907@math.wisc.edu> <20141009123246.GF1044@opera.rednote.net> In-Reply-To: <20141009123246.GF1044@opera.rednote.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.2.4 X-BeenThere: speakup@linux-speakup.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2014 15:31:43 -0000 On 10/09/14 07:32, Janina Sajka wrote: > John G. Heim writes: >> You can switch to a character user interface and use speakup even after >> starting the graphical user interface. But as I said, I don't consider that >> a key part of the linux accessibility infrastructure. > > > I have to disagree strongly, John. > > But, let me phrase my disagreement this way, is the console a key part > of Linux? Or shall we dump the console entirely in favor of a terminal > in the gui? In principle, I agree with you entirely. I'm in favor of 100% equal access. It's just that I think there is a much greater issue. Actually, the way you do things probably isn't threatened. You may have to switch to a different user space screen reader. But the linux kernel developers have no obligation to avoid telling you that your choice of screen reader is no longer supported. They do that kind of thing every day. I am asserting that doing something that makes it impossible for a blind systems admin to get access to the same boot messages that a sighted systems admin gets is a completely different matter. I'm saying that there are times when a sys admin has to have access to those messages or he can't do his job. I'm not saying he can't do it as efficiently. I'm saying sometimes he can't do it at all without access to those messages. There are a lot of places to attack my position. Some people have implied that you can do your job w/o access to those messages. I agree that most of the time you can. But not always. Also, there may be other ways to get access to those messages besides speakup and a hardware synth. A serial console comes to mind. But I'm not sure of what the status of the serial console is going to be if this change occurs.