From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: by befuddled.reisers.ca (Postfix, from userid 65534) id D94181EF83A; Thu, 9 Oct 2014 10:09:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta1.math.wisc.edu (mta1.math.wisc.edu [144.92.166.23]) by befuddled.reisers.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE6FB1EF837 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2014 10:09:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mta1.math.wisc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46A6549CE38 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2014 09:09:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mta1.math.wisc.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mta1.math.wisc.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PGP0JBOHGwRh for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2014 09:09:04 -0500 (CDT) Received: from mta1.math.wisc.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mta1.math.wisc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id C17C749CE25 for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2014 09:09:03 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2 (2011-06-06) on mta1.math.wisc.edu X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.0 required=6.5 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=disabled version=3.3.2 Received: from mailhost.math.wisc.edu (erdos.math.wisc.edu [144.92.166.25]) by mta1.math.wisc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2014 09:09:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [144.92.166.19] (vv507j.math.wisc.edu [144.92.166.19]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailhost.math.wisc.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A3E1342072A for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2014 09:09:03 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <543696F6.7090109@math.wisc.edu> Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2014 09:08:54 -0500 From: "John G. Heim" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/24.8.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." Subject: Re: the push to get rid of CONFIG_VT in the kernel and the future of Speakup References: <87zjd64c16.fsf@mushroom.PK5001Z> <543593E4.5040400@gmail.com> <54359B9E.10203@verizon.net> <21407.1412799969@ccs.covici.com> <20141009021859.GA27091@gregn.net> In-Reply-To: <20141009021859.GA27091@gregn.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.2.4 X-BeenThere: speakup@linux-speakup.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2014 14:09:07 -0000 Well, there is a significant difference between your problem and that which is solved with the header block on the motherboard. I am responsible for several servers that weren't bought at my request. I had nothing to do with the purchase of the hardware yet I have to keep them operating. I am going to say that is a fairly common phenomena in the sys admin world. Every time you switch jobs or even get a promotion, you are going to be responsible for computers you didn't spec out. I've already installed 2 of those converters so I could use my hardware synth with these machines. So I think it would depend on why you want to use a hardware synth with your laptop. Is that a choice or something you absolutely have to do? The linux kernel developers aren't ethically obligated to be all things to all people. They couldn't do that even if they tried. But I am suggesting that they do have an ethical obligation to try very hard not to do something that would cost a blind sys admin his job. I understand that it may be impossible for them to avoid it in this case. But that decision should not be made lightly. PS: I am not really talking about myself personally. I am about as secure in my job as I can be. I'm just assuming other blind sys admins have jobs similar to mine. Here at the University of Wisconsin, there are a lot of linux systems admin jobs. And for the majority of them, it would be a big problem if you couldn't access the boot messages. On 10/08/14 21:18, Gregory Nowak wrote: > When the serial port question comes up, someone always points out that > the headers for a serial port are still there, even though the actual > outside db-9/db-25 port isn't there. Unfortunately, this assumption > seems to be geared to desktop users. What about those of us using > laptops, and said laptop doesn't have pc-express/pcmcia? From this > point of view, moving speakup into user space at least partly has > advantages. This is especially true since the way things are now, I > can't connect a hardware synthesizer to my laptop anyway. On the other > hand, having speakup in user space would mean that I could use a usb > to serial converter. > > I'm sure there are more of us in a similar situation, not just yours > truly. Ideally, speakup should support as many hardware configurations > as possible. Standard serial ports should be supported, as well as > non-standard ports. Some of you may recall I still have a machine here > with a doubletalk PC installed in a ISA slot. Ideally, I would like to > be able to keep using my doubletalk if possible. > > One more thing to consider. Back when speakup first came out, kernels > weren't as modularized as they are now (more modules were built-in), > and initial ramdisks weren't as big as they are now (assuming they > were used in something other than install media. I first started with > GNU/linux using slackware 7.1. From what I recall (and I could be > wrong), when the system was installed, there was no initrd, all the > modules needed to mount the root FS were in the kernel. In such a > situation, having speakup be part of the kernel was a must. Nowadays, > I don't know of any distribution which doesn't create a initial > ramdisk as part of the install process. So, the only situation where > having speakup be a part of the kernel is if someone is building a > custom kernel, and including everything needed for booting into the > kernel without an initial ramdisk. How many of us here still do that? > My guess is very few of us if any. > > I am not saying speakup should be moved out of the kernel. I'm merely > gently suggesting that the case for keeping speakup fully in kernel > space isn't as strong as it once was. It does seem to me though like > there just might be more advantages to putting at least part of > speakup into user space today. Ok, that's my $0.01 worth. > > Greg > > > On Wed, Oct 08, 2014 at 04:26:09PM -0400, covici@ccs.covici.com wrote: >> That is what I think as well -- and most motherboards do have serial >> ports, just the headers are not brought out to the back. > >