From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp-out.kivex.com ([204.177.32.18]) by speech.braille.uwo.ca with esmtp (Exim 3.32 #1 (Debian)) id 16Q9zT-0003Es-00 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:29:43 -0500 Received: from ccrawford.acb.org ([216.51.9.68]) by smtp-out.kivex.com (8.8.8/8.8.7-KIVEX) with ESMTP id LAA03236 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:30:17 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020114123841.01f689a0@198.144.194.210> X-Sender: ccrawford@198.144.194.210 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:41:15 -0500 To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca From: Charles Crawford Subject: Re: anti-word In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca Errors-To: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca X-BeenThere: speakup@braille.uwo.ca X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.7 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Janina, I am not sure there is an entitlement to the processor or file of your choosing as much as there is an entitlement to accessibility. Your point on having to buy a new computer to access something does however modify the situation and I will have to think about that one. -- charlie Crawford. At 03:08 PM 1/13/02 -0500, you wrote: >Well, I believe you're wrong on both counts, in terms of what AFB supports >and in terms of what's good for blind people. > >Proprietary formats that work sometimes, and don't work often are not good >for blind people. For example, when it comes to inaccessible documents, >such as the forms mentioned in an earlier message, an accomondation can >reasonably be enforced under the ADA. I speak here of the most >restrictive circumstance such that of employment where, as you >pointed out, there are defined company standards. There are other >examples. > >You have, however, apparently narrowed the scope of this discussion to >file sharing within some kind of organizational entity--a company, a >school. The issue goes beyond that. > >When the situation is a proprietary format to someone outside of an >organizational entity, the entity is on even weaker ground. They have no >basis in law to compel someone to spend money on devices they would >otherwise not purchase in order to read something they're entitled to >read. An excellent example of this circumstance are Sec. 508 (and I >daresay 504). When the government chooses to publish forms on the web, >they are now required to be accessible forms. And, they must be accessible >to a wider variety of individuals with a wider variety of technologies. >They cannot, for example, say "Word is accessible, so we can publish >Word," because it's arguably only accessible to those with that kind of >technology. The public service must serve the greater public, not just >that majority that may have chosen Word somehow. > > > > On >Sun, 13 Jan 2002, Kirk Wood wrote: > > > I hope for the sake of blind people Janina speaks for herself and not the > > AFB. Reality strike here. Many people use their computer for primarily > > business reasons. And as such they are stuck with the arrogant rules of a > > business. For some stupid reason us sighted folks prefer text that is > > formatted. And no Janina, html and text don't give the level of formatting > > that word does. Sorry, but does not computer. Will not compute. > > > > ======= > > Kirk Wood > > Cpt.Kirk@1tree.net > > > > Nowlan's Theory: > > He who hesitates is not only lost, but several miles from > > the next freeway exit. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > >-- > > Janina Sajka, Director > Technology Research and Development > Governmental Relations Group > American Foundation for the Blind (AFB) > >Email: janina@afb.net Phone: (202) 408-8175 > >Chair, Accessibility SIG >Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF) >http://www.openebook.org > > >_______________________________________________ >Speakup mailing list >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup