From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from userp1040.oracle.com (userp1040.oracle.com [156.151.31.81]) by befuddled.reisers.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3652A1EF089 for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2013 11:27:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r17GR3Mx015198 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2013 16:27:03 GMT Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r17GR2IU001529 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2013 16:27:02 GMT Received: from abhmt101.oracle.com (abhmt101.oracle.com [141.146.116.53]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id r17GR2Lr025206 for ; Thu, 7 Feb 2013 10:27:02 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <4d3d4a0f-8fef-4c4c-a8e2-c9c70bd1e350@default> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 08:27:00 -0800 (PST) From: Don Raikes Sender: Don Raikes To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." Subject: RE: creating a speakup cli cd References: <689941E03FF94371984E0928E9A135C9@fred> <51116F88.30205@nextra.sk> <5dfee0d3-8265-406a-94bc-ea2c51e7ff7b@default> <511176B8.2030507@math.wisc.edu> <2BADCBFFAC1B4A478D82EAB02A287DCF@Audio1> <5112827F.7000404@math.wisc.edu> <51135670.1050406@baechler.net> In-Reply-To: <51135670.1050406@baechler.net> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.7 (607090) [OL 12.0.6665.5003 (x86)] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-BeenThere: speakup@linux-speakup.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." List-Id: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2013 16:27:11 -0000 Hi folks, Ok I have never been able to get this straight in my head. Which release is squeeze and which is wheezy? On the debian site I am only finding downloads for 6.06 which I had problem= s with trying to install. My Braille display came up no problem, but I cou= ldn't access the installer. -----Original Message----- From: Tony Baechler [mailto:tony@baechler.net]=20 Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 12:23 AM To: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. Subject: Re: creating a speakup cli cd John, I put it to you, as both a former ACB member (I have to renew one of these days) and as a fellow blind person that what you say below is a good thing.= =20 Specifically, you say that it's better to not have a customized live CD f= or the blind. That's why I was very outspoken in my opposition to Vinux an= d generally don't recommend it to people. You also said in your previous m= essage that you would not create a live CD and you think GRML has all of th= e features and packages you would want and need. First, I would really have to disagree that GRML only wants to use standard= Debian tools. They have created several scripts, including a special inst= aller, grml2usb and other packages which work completely outside of Debian = and were only relatively recently integrated into the Debian archive.=20 I ran into problems with their installer a long time ago when I first pla= yed with it. Presumably this is fixed now, but by not using some form of D= -I, there is no standard Speakup support within the installer. Also, becau= se of their reliance on a special set of scripts, I couldn't get X to work = at all. This was many years ago, so I'm sure any bugs are long since fixed= , but the point is that I wouldn't reinvent the wheel when Debian already g= ives the source for D-I and their X packages. Finally, to get to the point of all of this, the Debian Wheezy and Squeeze = official live CDs do exactly what you say you like about GRML and work pret= ty much the same way in that you have to load the Speakup module and start = espeakup by hand with the difference that the "espeak" and "espeakup"=20 packages are not included by default. If you look at the official Squeeze = CD, it does have the Speakup kernel modules already and has the older 2.6.3= 2 kernel which still supports hardware speech. I was successfully able to = use it to rescue a system with a bad drive and it's now my choice for a res= cue CD. Since it is an official Debian CD, it only uses official Debian pa= ckages and is even less blind-friendly than GRML. They aren't even includi= ng the software speech packages on the Wheezy CD. However, by installing t= he live CD building packages, one can easily build a CD with the missing sp= eech packages in a matter of minutes. That's the project which I was talki= ng about experimenting with in a couple of weeks. It already includes a se= t of standard and rescue packages. It's just a matter of including softwar= e speech and anything else that the blind might find useful. I don't know = about nowadays, but the official Debian CD seems to boot a lot faster than = GRML did and comes already with the standard D-I which should support softw= are speech. I know the official D-I which ships with Wheezy supports it be= cause I've tested it, but I'm not sure about a live CD. You mentioned Oralux. I didn't use it, but I remember it and know that it = was popular for a while. I would agree (see above) that a special CD for t= he blind is generally a bad idea. However, I would rather push the Debian = live CD maintainers to add the missing speech packages rather than rely on = an unofficial CD which is based on Debian but is subject to change and does= n't really have the resources to keep up with accessibility problems.=20 What I would like to see is the same boot option on the live CD as in D-I, = specifically "s" and Enter to start software speech automatically. To me, = that seems much better in the long term while still not being blind-friendl= y and reasonably well supported. You can even use the web to custom build = a live CD, but I couldn't get it to work. On 2/6/2013 8:19 AM, John G. Heim wrote: > The change to having to do a "modprobe speakup_soft" and then "espeakup" > happened in just the version before last (2011-11). So I don't think=20 > it is going to change again any time soon. The grml developers=20 > understandably want to stick as much as possible with standard debian=20 > tools. So they include the speakup modules and a few blind friendly packa= ges like espeakup and brltty. > But other than that, the disk is not customized for blind people. In a=20 > way that's a good thing because it means these accomodations (such as=20 > they are) are less likely to break and/or get left out of a release. _______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list Speakup@linux-speakup.org http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup