From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: by befuddled.reisers.ca (Postfix, from userid 65534) id DCF171EF7BC; Thu, 9 Oct 2014 16:13:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from opera.rednote.net (opera.rednote.net [IPv6:2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe70:e783]) by befuddled.reisers.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D5121EF7AF for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2014 16:13:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from opera.rednote.net (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by opera.rednote.net (8.14.8/8.14.7) with ESMTP id s99KD1N5012625 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 9 Oct 2014 20:13:01 GMT Received: (from janina@localhost) by opera.rednote.net (8.14.8/8.14.6/Submit) id s99KD1JJ012624 for speakup@linux-speakup.org; Thu, 9 Oct 2014 16:13:01 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: opera.rednote.net: janina set sender to janina@rednote.net using -f Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2014 16:13:01 -0400 From: Janina Sajka To: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." Subject: Re: the push to get rid of CONFIG_VT in the kernel and the future of Speakup Message-ID: <20141009201301.GK1044@opera.rednote.net> References: <87zjd64c16.fsf@mushroom.PK5001Z> <543593E4.5040400@gmail.com> <54359B9E.10203@verizon.net> <5435AE9F.1090306@math.wisc.edu> <5435B544.2090907@math.wisc.edu> <20141009123246.GF1044@opera.rednote.net> <5436A9EF.30604@math.wisc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5436A9EF.30604@math.wisc.edu> X-Operating-System: Linux opera.rednote.net 3.16.3-200.fc20.x86_64 X-PGP-Key: http://rednote.net/JaninaSajka_gpg_key.html User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.2.4 X-BeenThere: speakup@linux-speakup.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: "Speakup is a screen review system for Linux." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2014 20:13:05 -0000 We might be in what's sometimes called violent agreement, here. I agree we need boot messages. You may recall, back when Bill and I were putting out the Speakup Modified Fedora that we had the slogan of "because equal access is the blind computer user's right, from bootup to shutdown." Heck it's still there on the Speakup Modified page. Janina John G. Heim writes: > > > On 10/09/14 07:32, Janina Sajka wrote: > >John G. Heim writes: > >>You can switch to a character user interface and use speakup even after > >>starting the graphical user interface. But as I said, I don't consider that > >>a key part of the linux accessibility infrastructure. > > > > > >I have to disagree strongly, John. > > > >But, let me phrase my disagreement this way, is the console a key part > >of Linux? Or shall we dump the console entirely in favor of a terminal > >in the gui? > > In principle, I agree with you entirely. I'm in favor of 100% equal access. > It's just that I think there is a much greater issue. > > Actually, the way you do things probably isn't threatened. You may have to > switch to a different user space screen reader. But the linux kernel > developers have no obligation to avoid telling you that your choice of > screen reader is no longer supported. They do that kind of thing every day. > > I am asserting that doing something that makes it impossible for a blind > systems admin to get access to the same boot messages that a sighted systems > admin gets is a completely different matter. I'm saying that there are > times when a sys admin has to have access to those messages or he can't do > his job. I'm not saying he can't do it as efficiently. I'm saying sometimes > he can't do it at all without access to those messages. > > There are a lot of places to attack my position. Some people have implied > that you can do your job w/o access to those messages. I agree that most of > the time you can. But not always. Also, there may be other ways to get > access to those messages besides speakup and a hardware synth. A serial > console comes to mind. But I'm not sure of what the status of the serial > console is going to be if this change occurs. > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@linux-speakup.org > http://linux-speakup.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/speakup -- Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200 sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net Email: janina@rednote.net Linux Foundation Fellow Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) Chair, Protocols & Formats http://www.w3.org/wai/pf Indie UI http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/