From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com ([65.24.0.112]) by speech.braille.uwo.ca with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 16mFwN-0002r9-00 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 10:17:51 -0500 Received: from footrest (dhcp26137018.columbus.rr.com [24.26.137.18]) by clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id g2GFHqB12761 for ; Sat, 16 Mar 2002 10:17:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <021301c1ccfc$bd10bc20$6401a8c0@columbus.rr.com> From: "Bruce Noblick" To: References: <001901c1cbb1$709be780$6501a8c0@alxndr01.va.comcast.net> Subject: Re: Computer Science Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 10:10:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com id g2GFHqB12761 Sender: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca Errors-To: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca X-BeenThere: speakup@braille.uwo.ca X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi! I couldn't resist jumping in here. First, I miss assembler language programming. I know it isn't standard, it doesn't lend itself to structu= red techniques and all of that but it is how things eventually get done insid= e the computer and I guess that is what I like. I have worked with IBM 360/370 assembler, Unisys 1100/2200/4800 assembler, PC assemblers back as far as the 8080 and Z80 with CP/M and of course the rest of the Intel stu= ff under MSDOS and liked them all. I know this list is supposed to be about other things but assembler language is so close to my heart that I couldn= 't resist. Enjoy! Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amanda Lee" To: Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 6:39 PM Subject: Re: Computer Science Amen! Richard, I miss it and would love to go back to coding and maintain= ing Assembler code again! Amanda Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Villa" To: Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 6:02 PM Subject: Re: Computer Science I wonder when the last time anyone did any real programming not just coding using a language like assembler. I don't believe anyone knows what programming is until they have to write in an assembly language. On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Johan Bergstr=F6m wrote: > In sweden the universities teach lisp/ada/c/c++ and other programming > languages. Not IDE's. At least the ones I know about. There are separat= e > windows programming classes, at some places, which are specially for > people who enjoy that kind of stuff, where they debug the windows kerne= l > using softice and stuff like that. They run most of their server in a *= nix > based enviroment. > > johbe > > On Thu, 14 Mar 2002, Thomas Ward wrote: > > > Amanda so true. I am a CS student myself and I know exactly what my college > > teaches. They teach you Visual Basic, html with Javascript, Visual C= ++, MS > > SQL, MS Access, and you get the point. > > Almost everything is now Microsoft this, and Microsoft that. In fact = all the > > computers in the CS labs have Windows NT on them. > > They use to offer Unix C programming courses, but I don't think they = do any > > more. Been a while since I stepped into a class room, and when I went > > through they were just making the switch to MS everything. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Amanda Lee > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 9:36 AM > > Subject: Re: Computer Science > > > > > > > Nope, Unix, Mainframes aren't standard anymore. The college grads = we get > > > these days at Verizon have no clue what Unix or Mainframes are all about. > > > Everything is taught on a Windows-based Platform. I believe JAVA i= s > > > taught, probably Visual Basic, Maybe sometimes C Language but usual= ly C > > > Plus Plus which was actually abandoned in the project I work on for > > > straight C Language. > > > > > > I would think in the future though, there will be a change back to = at > > > least teaching Linux since it can run on a less expensive platform. It's > > > pretty disgraceful how the content of Computer Sciences education h= as been > > > degraded and these kids coming out have an ego bigger than life and think > > > they can take on the World in a day! > > > > > > They really struggle when they can't understand how to program and = the > > > quality of code coming out is pretty awful. There is even this mentality > > > in the Corporate World which indicates that one can learn everythin= g they > > > need to on the job and yet they can't figure out why there are so many > > > problems with efficiency and the costs resulting from poor efficien= cy. > > > > > > Amanda Lee > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 jwantz@hpcc2.hpcc.noaa.gov wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Chris, > > > > I'm not going to get involved in the "bookshare wars', but since = you > > were > > > > chastizing others on this list because most people use WINDOWS an= d not > > > > linux, I think its only fair to point out that your computer scie= nce > > > > department is very nonstandard. Though I am a meteorologist, not= a > > > > computer science person, I know many computer science students in the > > past > > > > and the present. Teaching WINDOWS programming is very nonstandar= d. I > > > > would guess that at least 90 percent of the schools teach programming on > > a > > > > UNIX variant of some kind. In the past thre was a fair amount of people > > > > using VMS. However, a lot of beginning C and C++ classes did use > > > > Turbo/Borland. WINDOWS programming is much more difficult than U= NIX > > > > programming, so I suppose you are to be congratulated for making = it > > > > through such a tough curriculum. > > > > > > > > Jim Wantz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Speakup mailing list > > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Speakup mailing list > > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > -- It is better to give then to receive. You don't believe me, just ask a boxer. Richard _______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list Speakup@braille.uwo.ca http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup _______________________________________________ Speakup mailing list Speakup@braille.uwo.ca http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup