From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com ([216.148.227.88]) by speech.braille.uwo.ca with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 179sLf-0007Me-00 for ; Mon, 20 May 2002 14:57:35 -0400 Received: from mycomputer ([24.62.38.156]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020520185707.XHMT18801.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@mycomputer> for ; Mon, 20 May 2002 18:57:07 +0000 Message-ID: <01b901c2002f$ec18b3e0$02263e18@mycomputer> From: "Igor Gueths" To: References: Subject: Re: ACB Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 14:55:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca Errors-To: speakup-admin@braille.uwo.ca X-BeenThere: speakup@braille.uwo.ca X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: speakup@braille.uwo.ca List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Speakup is a screen review system for Linux. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi Debra. You're right about that, but everything that is complicated in = Linux is so for a reason. Winblows on the other hand! Just too much crap = that doesn't even need to be there for us blind folks.=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Deedra Waters To: Sent: Monday, May 20, 2002 10:42 AM Subject: Re: ACB > Honestly, in my opinion, linux appears to be a lot mor complicated = then > dos was, I haven't used dos in probably seven years or mor, but that's = my > observation. >=20 > On Mon, 20 May 2002, cwhitley wrote: > Hi, > Might I inquire as to how Linux is any worse today than DOS was? Both = are > text mode, command line oriented OS's. There were very successfull = DOS > users that happened to be blind. Of course, at the time GUI had not > caught > on with the sighted world, but it did exist. I am not saying that > progress > doesn't need to be made, just that you seem to be stating the problem > worse > than it actually is. There are actually some DOS users still out = there. > Regards, > Cecil >=20 > > >On Mon, 20 May 2002 08:44:03 -0400 Charles Crawford = > > wrote. > > > OK, now I need to speak from the view of the American = council of=20 > > >the blind with respect to this thread. > > > > > > We want to see alternatives to the dominant Ms-Windows = operating=20 > > >system and applications that are accessible and user friendly. We = realize=20 > > >there is a culture around Linux that we do not wish to displace or=20 > > >otherwise change, yet the culture demands a level of personal = involvement=20 > > >and knowledge that is neither easy to obtain from the available = resources=20 > > >nor easy to learn once those resources are found. Hence, the = participation > >=20 > > >of the wider blindness community is not likely unless there are new = ways of > >=20 > > >learning and using Linux that maintain the accessibility and lack = of=20 > > >expense that are so attractive. > > > > > > It is not a matter of telling folks to read the manual = when the=20 > > >manual is prefaced upon an expectation of understanding that is = greater=20 > > >than the average person starting out. Neither is it helpful to = assume that > >=20 > > >everyone is going to be able to prioritize their time to dedicate = to Linux=20 > > >in the same way as others have. > > > > > > This is not a hobby. It is an operating system for use by = those=20 > > >who need the access and affordability of it. So let's admit that = we need=20 > > >to accommodate those interests and find a way to do it that is not=20 > > >threatening to the current community of users. > > > > > > For the reasons above, ACBH is attempting to find the = resources to > >=20 > > >get the internal speech engine we need to put speakup inside the = box with=20 > > >internal quality speech. That will expand the user base because we = won't=20 > > >be hunting around for hardware that is slowly disappearing. > > > > > > Next we need to look at the usability issue. This does = not mean=20 > > >we try and change the nature of Linux and it's syntax, but we do = need to=20 > > >look at any avenues to either make it more easy for folks to learn = the=20 > > >context through tutorials for example or possible other ways. > > > > > > In the end, Linux is a robust product that need not be = seen as=20 > > >having only one road to access. So let's stop making assumptions = about the > >=20 > > >people who are only trying to use this cool operating system and = start=20 > > >making an environment that supports all who want to use it. > > > > > >-- Charlie Crawford. > > >At 04:34 PM 5/19/02 -0400, you wrote: > > >>I think that most people know how to search for things on the = internet. I > > >> think you need to stop and think about the fact that not all = people are > > >>good at finding things and that's why we ask for help. If I could = find all > > >>of the answers to my problems, I wouldn't be asking.:p Before you = start > > >>treating new people like their idiots, try to remember that we're = all > > >>different, we all learn in different ways, and sometimes we miss = stuff. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>On Sun, 19 May 2002, Janina Sajka wrote: > > >> > > >> > All right, Newbies, Listen Up! > > >> > > > >> > There's something called Google. It's your friend. You use it > > >> > with your favorite web browser. It's real easy and it's lynx > > >> > friendly. And, it finds the answers to almost all of the "where > > >> > do I find" questions I've seen on this list in the last 6 = months, > > >> > and puts them on the first screen of results. > > >> > > > >> > Learn to use Google. Keep it open in a second console. > > >> > > > >> > The field where you type in your search string is the fourth > > >> > field on the main Google screen. The submit button is the next > > >> > field. > > >> > > > >> > This is not rocket science. It isn't even hard. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > _______________________________________________ > > >> > Speakup mailing list > > >> > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > >> > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >>_______________________________________________ > > >>Speakup mailing list > > >>Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > >>http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >Speakup mailing list > > >Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > >http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > > Hi, > > Might I inquire as to how Linux is any worse today than DOS was? = Both are > > text mode, command line oriented OS's. There were very successfull = DOS > > users that happened to be blind. Of course, at the time GUI had not = caught > > on with the sighted world, but it did exist. I am not saying that = progress > > doesn't need to be made, just that you seem to be stating the = problem worse > > than it actually is. There are actually some DOS users still out = there. =20 > > Regards, > > Cecil > >=20 > > _______________________________________________ > > Speakup mailing list > > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup > >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Speakup mailing list > Speakup@braille.uwo.ca > http://speech.braille.uwo.ca/mailman/listinfo/speakup