Re: Needs educating: Message from Linux (fwd)

["Thomas Ward" <tward@bright.net>]

Hi, let me come at this from another angle. In the Windows world a piece of
software is written, and the company then expects the screen reader
manufacturer to modify their screen reader to support their app. Some such
as Microslop include MSAA support to help the screen reader along after the
fact.
In Gnome 2 we want to write the screen reader, and sstandardize all the tool
kits, documentation, and even the sample source code to clearly show someone
how to write an an accessible app, or to upgrade their app so that it works
with Gnopernicus. So rather than making the screen reader work with the app
we want the desktop and apps to work with the screen reader.

----- Original Message -----
From: Amanda Lee <amanda@shellworld.net>
To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: Needs educating: Message from Linux (fwd)


> So in broad terms, the features are equivalent to MSAA?  However, there's
a
> cleaner interface than what MSAA provides because of the overal
> standardization of what is already standardized in Linux???
>
>
> Amanda Lee
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Thomas Ward" <tward@bright.net>
> To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 7:43 PM
> Subject: Re: Needs educating: Message from Linux (fwd)
>
>
> > Hi. Wo, hold on here!
> >
> > Ok, let me explain what we are doing with Gnome to clarify things.
First,
> > the gtk tool kit, from which Gnome is written in,  is being rewritten so
> > that anyone using the standard controls, widgets, etc will build
> accessible
> > apps from the get go. Gnome has also been upgraded with speech hooks
that
> > will tell the screen reader what is being presented. Finally, Sun will
be
> > introducing something like the Java Access bridge so that Gnopernicus
can
> > handle Java applications under Linux. Does this clear things up?
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Charles Crawford <ccrawford@acb.org>
> > To: <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 2:27 PM
> > Subject: Re: Needs educating: Message from Linux (fwd)
> >
> >
> > >          Thanks.  I understand what you are saying.  Does this mean
that
> > > there would not be a fix for X-Windows like the MSAA in Windows?
Would
> we
> > > need some kind of major off-screen model?
> > >
> > > -- charlie Crawford.
> > >
> > > At 11:09 AM 1/22/02 -0700, you wrote:
> > > >Actually, being familiar with X myself, I'll answer this one.
> > > >
> > > >Xwindows, is a misnomer, in reality, it's just an X server, and
> clients.
> > The
> > > >server draws to the screen, and sends user input to the clients. The
> > clients
> > > >are the applications, the clients are usually on the same machine as
> the
> > > >server, but they don't have to be.
> > > >
> > > >X itself is nothing more than a network protocol for sending graphic
> data
> > to
> > > >an X workstation, the X protocol has no provisions for button, text
> box,
> > or
> > > >any widgets for that matter, it has: line, circle, filled circle,
> > rectangle,
> > > >filled rectangle, pixmap, etc...
> > > >
> > > >X also sends keyboard input and mouse click locations to the
> applications
> > > >that own the windows they occur in.  Beyond that, X's only other
> > capability
> > > >is to send text glyphs (rendered in a given font) back to
applications
> > that
> > > >request them.
> > > >
> > > >As for widgets, and controls, and a nice unified API for writing
> > programs,
> > > >you need a "toolkit library". What's a toolkit library you ask? A
> better
> > > >question might be "what isn't a toolkit library?"
> > > >First of all, there are a lot of toolkit libraries out there, some
are
> > very
> > > >simple (Athena) while some have a full-blown callback API and can be
> > adjusted
> > > >with themes (GTK, GTK+) and some are object-oriented C++ based APIs
> (QT).
> > > >They all basically do the same thing, provide
> > functions/objects/structures to
> > > >the application to draw typical GUI widgets, and send draw requests
to
> > the X
> > > >server. Here's the hairy part, each toolkit has its own look and
feel,
> > has
> > > >its own API, has its own conventions, and basically has its own
> > everything.
> > > >
> > > >There's also the seperate window manager, which is simply another X
> > client
> > > >which registers a few special functions with the X server so it can
get
> > the
> > > >location and owner of each window and add decorations and task
> switching
> > > >behavior. Some (most) window managers do more than this, but they all
> do
> > at
> > > >least this.
> > > >
> > > >Windows, on the other had, has the equivalent of the toolkit library
> and
> > > >window manager built into the kernel (sort of) and most applications
> > either
> > > >use that, or a custom one that is very similar to it.
> > > >
> > > >I'm sure this is incomplete, but I've already been wracking my brain
> for
> > an
> > > >hour over it, so I'll close here, feel free to ask questions or tell
me
> > about
> > > >parts that are unclear.
> > > > >       Good to see you on this list.  I wonder if there are some
> folks
> > > > out there
> > > > > familiar with XWindows to share the kind of navigation that goes
on
> > with
> > > > > it?  I have no idea.  Is it the same icons and rdio buttons and
all
> of
> > > > > tht?  How is it different than windows and how much more easy
would
> > access
> > > > > be to develop in the XWindows environment?  These are important
> > questions
> > > > > to your point I imagine.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
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> > >
> > >
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> > >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
>
>
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