I have some questions. Hello to all.

I have some questions. Hello to all.

[Rick Hayner]

     I want to get a copy of linux to install on my system.  I don't
have a cd-rom drive in my system.  I have a 5.25 1.2mb drive that is
my boot drive.  I have 16mb ram, and a 1.6gb eide drive, model
wdac311660.

     What I need to know is 1. What files do I need to download to
just get linux installed and talking?  I have an external doubletalk
synthesizer now. 2, where do I get the utilities to unpack these
files, and what are the names of these utilities?  If there are howtos
that will answer these questions, where do I find them, and what ones
should I get.  I have the linux to dos howto, but it assumes you have
a cd rom.  I am at present running opendos version 7.02, and I have
defined a linux root partition using the fdisk utility that comes with
opendos 7.02 in extended mode.  I want to leave both systems on the
computer until I learn Linux.  My goal is to eventually totally change
over to linux.

     I read the linux faq, but it says nothing about where and what
files to get to start if you don't have a cd-rom.  What linux
implementation of linux should I get that will be easy for a totally
blind user to install?

     I am very familliar with dos, and program in C as well as several
other languages.

     Any help would be appreciated.  If anyone can recommend any
unix/linux books to try and get on tape, or that are available over
the internet would also be extremely helpful. I also want to
eventually contribute to the software that is available for linux for
the blind, maybe even a screen reader.

     Sorry for the long post. Btw, I also would like an ftp client
with ppp drivers that would allow me to download extra files and
developement tools from linux.  I also don't have a second computer,
so I can't use commo or something like that to help me install it.
I've got a friend who can read the screen for me, and I can braille
the important commands required for installation if necessary.

     Thanks very much.



Rick Hayner
rhayner@complink.net
Baritone, Kalamazoo chapter SPEBSQSA Mall City Chorus
It's great to be a barbershopper!

Re: I have some questions.

[James R. Van Zandt]

Rick Hayner <rhayner@complink.net> writes:
>     I want to get a copy of linux to install on my system.  I don't
>have a cd-rom drive in my system. 
>     What I need to know is 1. What files do I need to download to
>just get linux installed and talking?  

Without a second computer, you need to do a full Linux installation,
then add some extra packages or compile some software, before you can
get speech output.  However, you should be able to manage with a
sighted assistant.

As for getting files, you need:
 - documentation.  I suggest you get my Emacspeak-HOWTO from the
blinux ftp site ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux/ or any HOWTO repository.  It
has pointers to other documentation.
 - Linux boot floppy, driver disks, etc.  Get these from a site that
mirrors your chosen distribution.
 - Standard package files.  Get these from the same place.
 - Access software package files.  Both Debian "unstable" and Red Hat
"contrib" include Emacspeak packages.  There is more software at the
blinux ftp site.  The most recent driver for your DoubleTalk is at my
web site, http://www.mv.com/ipusers/vanzandt.

Download all the above to a DOS partition on your hard disk.  Each
distribution mirror includes the few DOS utilities you will need
(mainly RAWRITE).  There are a lot of package files to download.  I
suggest you investigate borrowing a CDROM, or finding a friend with a
CDROM on his machine, and link the two machines with Ethernet or PLIP
(using a LapLink cable).  For the latter, it is not absolutely
necessary for the other machine to have Linux installed.  He could
boot a small Linux system off a floppy - just enough to act as an FTP
or NFS server.  Probably requires a Linux guru, though.  It is also
possible to run an ftp server under DOS, but I don't know much about
that.

For Debian, I think this will work: Suppose you put your package
(.deb) files into c:\linux\unstable and subdirectories thereof.  (You
need to reproduce the organization of the ftp site.  If yours is a
Windows 95 system, you can probably use the regular filenames.  If it
is a DOS system, you are limited to 8+3 filenames, so download things
from unstable/msdos-i386 and its subdirectories.  Be sure you get
everything from the "base" and "libs" directories.

Missing package files may not cause a problem - try it first.  If
there is trouble, then at some point you need to tell the system which
packages are available.  I believe the right point is after the
reboot, when it asks you to set the root password.  Change to the
second virtual console with alt-F2 and log in as root.  Type these
commands (the part after the # is my comment):

mkdir /c                         # create a mount point for the DOS directory
mount /dev/hda1 /c               # mount the DOS directory
>/var/lib/dpkg/available         # zero out the record of available packages
dpkg --record-avail --recursive /c/linux/unstable  # update package list

(That third line really does start with a "greater than" symbol.  The
command writes "nothing" to the file, leaving it with name and
permissions unchanged, but no content.)

Then return to the original virtual console with alt-F1 and continue
with the installation.  

Oh - there is one suggestion I give every first-time Debian installer,
whether sighted or not: When the dselect "package selection" screen
comes up, do not make any selections!  Just type <return> to accept
the defaults.  Going through the options takes over an hour.  If you
do not invest that time, then hitting a glitch and starting over from
the beginning will be much less of a disaster.  You can always run
"dselect" later to add or delete things, or just use "dpkg" like I do.

Red Hat packages usually are not divided into separate directories.
I don't know whether missing package files will cause a problem.

I suggest you install loadlin - a DOS program which you can use to
boot your Linux system.  It is less risky than LILO.

>I also want to eventually contribute to the software that is
>available for linux for the blind, maybe even a screen reader.

Let us know if you run into trouble.

                            - Jim Van Zandt

Re: I have some questions. Hello to all.

[K.C. Habib]

Hi!
What I would recommend doing is the following:

1. Decide on a Linux distribution.  I am currently running Red Hat 5.0,
but I would recommend running the latest Slackware release, as RH5 just
came out and people are not as fimiliar with it as they are with
Slackware.

2. I don't know what kind of FTP software you have under DOS or Windows,
but go to ftp://ftp.cdrom.com for Slackware, ftp://ftp.redhat.com for
Redhat or ftp://ftp.debian.org for Debian (There are several other less
popular distributions.)  Download the contence of the directory with the
Linux distribu8tion you are interested in.   Download a bootdisk image,
and copy it to your floppydisk.  Reboot (make sure you do this part with
your sighted friend,) and wait for it to boot Linux.  Oh yyeah, before you
do this make sure you make your Linux partition active.  At this point you
will have booted Linux for the first time.    Then tell the installation
program where the Linux installation files are on your DOS side, and it
will run the install.

3. As for speech, your best bet will probably be Emacspeak.  Get the
Emacs1;0cpea1;0ck HOWTO from ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/doc/HOWTO.
Read it, then read it again.  Skip the part about setting up a dumb
terminal with DOS as you have a sighted friend that will help you with all
of the setting up.

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to write me.

K.C.

Re: I have some questions. Hello to all.

[L. C. Robinson]

On Sun, 1 Feb 1998, Rick Hayner wrote:

>      I want to get a copy of linux to install on my system.  I don't
> have a cd-rom drive in my system.  I have a 5.25 1.2mb drive that is
> my boot drive.  I have 16mb ram, and a 1.6gb eide drive, model
> wdac311660.

Humm, the 1.2mb drive might be a problem if you're interested in Red
Hat, since the boot images are for a 3.5 floppy, but you could
probably get around that by getting the autoboot.bat file from the dos
utils dir of a RedHat mirror, and, making sure you have the files the
batch file points to, you could boot from DOS, using loadlin.
Autoboot.bat invokes loadlin, with some boot image files it uses. This
doesn't work for all systems, and isn't documented or supported in the
Red Hat installation manual (available for download or on the web),
but it works for fairly standard hardware, like you seem to have.  You
could test by downloading just the batch file, and the files it uses,
and then booting the kernel.  It would, of course, fail at some point,
when it needs the files you haven't got yet, but if it works, then you
could follow the directions in the Red Hat installation manual for one
of the 4 methods they provide, including an automated ftp install, or
from the hard disk.

>      What I need to know is 1. What files do I need to download to
>      just get linux installed and talking?  I have an external
>      doubletalk synthesizer now.

Well, I note that others have given you good advice about the
speech stuff, which I don't know much about.  The Red Hat manual
mentioned above tells you all the other details.

> 2, where do I get the utilities to unpack these files, and what are
> the names of these utilities?

They are all provided in an automated fashion, in the very
easy automated Red Hat install.  Red Hat is noted for being
unusually easy to install and upgrade, but you will need
sighted assistance (an interpreter) if you choose Red Hat.
After you are installed, run the following command to
learn about the Red Hat package manager:
man rpm

> If there are howtos that will answer these questions, where do I
> find them, and what ones should I get.

If you get the Red Hat manual, that is pretty much all you need
to get installed, and then afterward, you will find all the
HOWTO's FAQ's, etc, that you want, in the /usr/doc tree,
assuming you installed the documentation packages.

> I have the linux to dos howto, but it assumes you have
> a cd rom.  I am at present running opendos version 7.02, and I have
> defined a linux root partition using the fdisk utility that comes with
> opendos 7.02 in extended mode.

That's what I have (opendos), and it works fine with linux on
the same disk.  The automated install provides it's own setup
utils, including fdisk.

> I want to leave both systems on the computer until I learn Linux.
> My goal is to eventually totally change over to linux.

No problem.

>      Any help would be appreciated.  If anyone can recommend any
> unix/linux books to try and get on tape, or that are available over
> the internet would also be extremely helpful.

There is a "Linux Installation and Getting Started guide" that is very
good, available in electronic format, in the ldp (linux documentation
project) directories of Linux Sunsite archive mirrors.  This guide (a
book) also gets installed as part of the Red Hat installation
procedure (and probably in most other distributions, too).  You can
get all the linux docs in straight ascii, or html format.  I can give
you a complete URL or ftp dir if you tell me what archive site is near
you.  Look for the sunsite mirror dir, and then it is:
docs/linux-doc-project/install-guide/install-guide-2.3.html.tar.gz
or
docs/linux-doc-project/install-guide/install-guide-2.3.txt.zip
or whatever format you want it in.

>      Sorry for the long post. Btw, I also would like an ftp client
> with ppp drivers that would allow me to download extra files and
> developement tools from linux. 

All this stuff comes with Linux, and lots more, for free.

> I've got a friend who can read the screen for me, and I can braille
> the important commands required for installation if necessary.

Which is why I would suggest Red Hat.  Without help, you'd probably be
stuck with slackware.  Don't overlook the resources that are always
appended to every message on this list: they can answer lot's of
questions.

L. C. Robinson
reply to infynity@cyberhighway.net (a family account)