Newbie to linux and a question

Newbie to linux and a question

[Linux for blind general discussion]

Hello list,

As a newbie to linux, I as wondering if anyone could tell me a good place to start to learn linux? I would like to learn as much as I could. However,. I have no clue on how to start.. I need to start at beginning bye do not know how to start. 

Sincerely,

Michael maslo

Re: Newbie to linux and a question

[Linux for blind general discussion]

Well Michael, why not try the Linux CookBook
http://dsl.org/cookbook/cookbook_toc.html
I must say that once you begin exploring man-pages, you will find out they are 
not written for beginners, but as you begin useing your favorite 
programs-and-applications, they will make more sense. Hope that helps alot
Chime

Re: Newbie to linux and a question

[Linux for blind general discussion]

What distro and version have you got running?  Different distros
have unique resources available to help users in your situation though
other resources are universal.  Two of the universal resources are man
and info.  If using a graphical user interface first thing to do to
access these is to learn about terminal operations and how to run a
terminal session.  Even before that, it's necessary to learn to run a
command and depending on graphical user environment you may use unity or
gnome/mate without unity.

On Fri, 14 Dec 2018, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:

> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2018 23:19:12
> From: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> To: blinux-list@redhat.com
> Subject: Newbie to linux and a question
>
> Hello list,
>
> As a newbie to linux, I as wondering if anyone could tell me a good place to start to learn linux? I would like to learn as much as I could. However,. I have no clue on how to start.. I need to start at beginning bye do not know how to start.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Michael maslo
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>

-- 

Re: Newbie to linux and a question

[Linux for blind general discussion]

Hello,

Thank to you at for all the responses.

I am currently running ubundu mate 18.04. The software boutique store is horrible and inaccessible. I am currently running the software center but there are applications I want which I can't find. The ones I do try do not work with orca.

The store seems limited. I have learned a little about the command line but there is so much I have to learn.

I was thinking about trying manjaro to see if it was better.

D ebian I thought was ubundu.. Though I I may be wrong.

I am eager to learn so all suggestions I will be following up with. I sincerely thank everyone for the help. 

Sincerely,

Michael maslo

> On Dec 15, 2018, at 00:05, Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com> wrote:
> 
> What distro and version have you got running?  Different distros
> have unique resources available to help users in your situation though
> other resources are universal.  Two of the universal resources are man
> and info.  If using a graphical user interface first thing to do to
> access these is to learn about terminal operations and how to run a
> terminal session.  Even before that, it's necessary to learn to run a
> command and depending on graphical user environment you may use unity or
> gnome/mate without unity.
> 
>> On Fri, 14 Dec 2018, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:
>> 
>> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2018 23:19:12
>> From: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>> To: blinux-list@redhat.com
>> Subject: Newbie to linux and a question
>> 
>> Hello list,
>> 
>> As a newbie to linux, I as wondering if anyone could tell me a good place to start to learn linux? I would like to learn as much as I could. However,. I have no clue on how to start.. I need to start at beginning bye do not know how to start.
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> 
>> Michael maslo
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blinux-list mailing list
>> Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list

RE: Newbie to linux and a question

[Linux for blind general discussion]

Hi,
I don't recommend antergos anymore.
The orca is not available there.


-----Original Message-----
From: blinux-list-bounces@redhat.com <blinux-list-bounces@redhat.com> On
Behalf Of Linux for blind general discussion
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2018 3:23 PM
To: blinux-list@redhat.com
Subject: Re: Newbie to linux and a question

Hello,

Thank to you at for all the responses.

I am currently running ubundu mate 18.04. The software boutique store is
horrible and inaccessible. I am currently running the software center but
there are applications I want which I can't find. The ones I do try do not
work with orca.

The store seems limited. I have learned a little about the command line but
there is so much I have to learn.

I was thinking about trying manjaro to see if it was better.

D ebian I thought was ubundu.. Though I I may be wrong.

I am eager to learn so all suggestions I will be following up with. I
sincerely thank everyone for the help. 

Sincerely,

Michael maslo

> On Dec 15, 2018, at 00:05, Linux for blind general discussion
<blinux-list@redhat.com> wrote:
> 
> What distro and version have you got running?  Different distros have 
> unique resources available to help users in your situation though 
> other resources are universal.  Two of the universal resources are man 
> and info.  If using a graphical user interface first thing to do to 
> access these is to learn about terminal operations and how to run a 
> terminal session.  Even before that, it's necessary to learn to run a 
> command and depending on graphical user environment you may use unity 
> or gnome/mate without unity.
> 
>> On Fri, 14 Dec 2018, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:
>> 
>> Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2018 23:19:12
>> From: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>> To: blinux-list@redhat.com
>> Subject: Newbie to linux and a question
>> 
>> Hello list,
>> 
>> As a newbie to linux, I as wondering if anyone could tell me a good place
to start to learn linux? I would like to learn as much as I could. However,.
I have no clue on how to start.. I need to start at beginning bye do not
know how to start.
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> 
>> Michael maslo
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blinux-list mailing list
>> Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>> 
> 
> --
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list


_______________________________________________
Blinux-list mailing list
Blinux-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list

Re: Newbie to linux and a question

[Linux for blind general discussion]

Ubuntu is a Debian Derivative, and while I haven't used it myself for
nearly a decade(I switched to vanilla Debian somewhere around 2010 or
2011, and have used Knoppix(another Debian derivative) as my
day-to-day OS since late 2012, it is my understanding that Ubuntu
often has some of the most divisive customizations in its default
setup compared to other distros in the Debian family.

That said, I really can't offer much advice on using Orca as I
essentially have no experience using it with a full Desktop
Environment or with applications other than Firefox, and I keep Orca
around solely because, in my opinion at least, Firefox+Orca provides a
better blind web experience than any text-mode web browser, which is a
real shame considering I can do everything else on a computer from the
command line.

I'd say give Knoppix a try, but when they stopped releasing a CD
version, they also stopped releasing official images that boot into
Adriane(Knoppix's blind accessibility suite) by default, and while you
only need to change one line of one text file within the .iso to make
Adriane the default boot option, the only means I know of for doing
this requires mounting the iso, copying the contents to a writable
folder, making the edit, and then building a new iso. And while I'm
willing to share the iso where I've already done this, its way too
large for any practical means of sharing files I know of. And while
Knoppix is great as a liveDVD, it does leave quite a bit to be desired
when installed to a hard disc.

-- 
Sincerely,

Jeffery Wright
Bachelor of Computer Science
President Emeritus, Nu Nu Chapter, Phi Theta Kappa.

Re: Newbie to linux and a question

[Linux for blind general discussion]

Hello may  i ask what adrianne. 

If I do not use that, may I still use orca? 

Sincerely,

Michael maslo

> On Dec 15, 2018, at 09:22, Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com> wrote:
> 
> Ubuntu is a Debian Derivative, and while I haven't used it myself for
> nearly a decade(I switched to vanilla Debian somewhere around 2010 or
> 2011, and have used Knoppix(another Debian derivative) as my
> day-to-day OS since late 2012, it is my understanding that Ubuntu
> often has some of the most divisive customizations in its default
> setup compared to other distros in the Debian family.
> 
> That said, I really can't offer much advice on using Orca as I
> essentially have no experience using it with a full Desktop
> Environment or with applications other than Firefox, and I keep Orca
> around solely because, in my opinion at least, Firefox+Orca provides a
> better blind web experience than any text-mode web browser, which is a
> real shame considering I can do everything else on a computer from the
> command line.
> 
> I'd say give Knoppix a try, but when they stopped releasing a CD
> version, they also stopped releasing official images that boot into
> Adriane(Knoppix's blind accessibility suite) by default, and while you
> only need to change one line of one text file within the .iso to make
> Adriane the default boot option, the only means I know of for doing
> this requires mounting the iso, copying the contents to a writable
> folder, making the edit, and then building a new iso. And while I'm
> willing to share the iso where I've already done this, its way too
> large for any practical means of sharing files I know of. And while
> Knoppix is great as a liveDVD, it does leave quite a bit to be desired
> when installed to a hard disc.
> 
> -- 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Jeffery Wright
> Bachelor of Computer Science
> President Emeritus, Nu Nu Chapter, Phi Theta Kappa.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list

Re: Newbie to linux and a question

[Linux for blind general discussion]

Okay, let me back up a bit.

Knoppix is a Live Distribution developed by Klaus Knopper based on
Debian. As a live distribution, it is designed primarily to be run
from a DVD or USB flash drive, though it can be installed to a hard
drive, though this isn't generally recommended and its installer is a
bit quick and dirty compared to distributions actually intended to be
installed to a hard drive.

Adriane(full name: Audio Desktop resource implemntation and networking
environment) is an accessibility suite bundled with Knoppix. By
default, a Knoppix DVD will boot to a desktop environment, but if the
right command is issued at the DVd's boot prompt, it will instead boot
in Adriane mode.

When booted in Adriane mode, the sbl text-mode screen reader is
started automatically and the user is presented with a menu. Most of
the menu options are for common computing tasks such as browsing the
web, checking e-mail, editing documents, playing media files, or file
management, and most of the menu options will invoke an appropriate
text-mode application or serve as a front end to such. There's also an
option that will drop you down to the command line and a Graphical
Programs option that will give you a choice between launching Firefox
with Orca, LibreOffice with Orca, or a full desktop environment with
Orca.

There use to be three official flavors of Knoppix, each available in
both an English version and a German version: Knoppix Cd, Adriane CD,
and Knoppix DVD. Knoppix CD booted to a graphical desktop by default,
included only the default desktop environment, and fit on a CD.
Adriane CD was identical to Knoppix CD, but booted into Adriane by
default. Knoppix DVD included the option to boot with a 64-bit kernel,
booting into alternate desktop environments, and bundled as much
software as could fit on a DVD, but had the same default boot options
as the Knoppix CD. At some point, Klaus Knopper got to a point where
trimming things down for the CD release took too much time nad effort,
and now, the only official Knoppix images are the Enlgish and German
versions of the DVd. Again, booting to Adriane is still possible,
though the Knoppix boot prompt isn't accessible, which prompted me to
learn how to modify the DVD iso to make it boot into Adriane by
default.

If I'm not mistaken, Adriane utilizes the following text-mode
applications for its various components:
web browser: elinks.
e-mail client: mutt
OCR: Tesseract
File Management: Midnight Commander
Media player: mplayer2 or mpv(both are forks of mplayer)
text editing: nano.
Text-mode screen reader: sbl
Graphical Web browser: Firefox
Graphical Office Suite: LibreOffice
Graphical screen reader: Orca.

Admittedly, I don't really use Adriane much myself, but then again,
I've been immersed in the command line for years, and the only reasons
I haven't switched back to vanilla Debian is because I prefer SBL to
espeakup(the default text-mode screen reader in Debian), sbl isn't
available in Debian's apt repositories, and I haven't figured out how
to replicate Adriane's ability to launch Firefox and Orca without
launching a full desktop environment under Debian. Still, Adriane
seems like a good way for someone who's blind and new to Linux to get
things done without having to constantly fight with the GUI or needing
to jump into the deep end with the command line.

-- 
Sincerely,

Jeffery Wright
Bachelor of Computer Science
President Emeritus, Nu Nu Chapter, Phi Theta Kappa.

Re: Newbie to linux and a question

[Linux for blind general discussion]

Hi Jeff!
That was very well explained.
Thanks for that one.
I am not a newbie but am not using the linux OS as much as i maybe wanted.
THis i guess is because I am so lazie and feel a bit stupid if i ask something.
I began 2 decades ago with Linux and way back then there was mostly command line use for a blind person.
I sadly met people on the internet that was quite frustrated to have a newbie hanging around asking silly questions.
/A

> 15 dec. 2018 kl. 18:06 skrev Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>:
> 
> Okay, let me back up a bit.
> 
> Knoppix is a Live Distribution developed by Klaus Knopper based on
> Debian. As a live distribution, it is designed primarily to be run
> from a DVD or USB flash drive, though it can be installed to a hard
> drive, though this isn't generally recommended and its installer is a
> bit quick and dirty compared to distributions actually intended to be
> installed to a hard drive.
> 
> Adriane(full name: Audio Desktop resource implemntation and networking
> environment) is an accessibility suite bundled with Knoppix. By
> default, a Knoppix DVD will boot to a desktop environment, but if the
> right command is issued at the DVd's boot prompt, it will instead boot
> in Adriane mode.
> 
> When booted in Adriane mode, the sbl text-mode screen reader is
> started automatically and the user is presented with a menu. Most of
> the menu options are for common computing tasks such as browsing the
> web, checking e-mail, editing documents, playing media files, or file
> management, and most of the menu options will invoke an appropriate
> text-mode application or serve as a front end to such. There's also an
> option that will drop you down to the command line and a Graphical
> Programs option that will give you a choice between launching Firefox
> with Orca, LibreOffice with Orca, or a full desktop environment with
> Orca.
> 
> There use to be three official flavors of Knoppix, each available in
> both an English version and a German version: Knoppix Cd, Adriane CD,
> and Knoppix DVD. Knoppix CD booted to a graphical desktop by default,
> included only the default desktop environment, and fit on a CD.
> Adriane CD was identical to Knoppix CD, but booted into Adriane by
> default. Knoppix DVD included the option to boot with a 64-bit kernel,
> booting into alternate desktop environments, and bundled as much
> software as could fit on a DVD, but had the same default boot options
> as the Knoppix CD. At some point, Klaus Knopper got to a point where
> trimming things down for the CD release took too much time nad effort,
> and now, the only official Knoppix images are the Enlgish and German
> versions of the DVd. Again, booting to Adriane is still possible,
> though the Knoppix boot prompt isn't accessible, which prompted me to
> learn how to modify the DVD iso to make it boot into Adriane by
> default.
> 
> If I'm not mistaken, Adriane utilizes the following text-mode
> applications for its various components:
> web browser: elinks.
> e-mail client: mutt
> OCR: Tesseract
> File Management: Midnight Commander
> Media player: mplayer2 or mpv(both are forks of mplayer)
> text editing: nano.
> Text-mode screen reader: sbl
> Graphical Web browser: Firefox
> Graphical Office Suite: LibreOffice
> Graphical screen reader: Orca.
> 
> Admittedly, I don't really use Adriane much myself, but then again,
> I've been immersed in the command line for years, and the only reasons
> I haven't switched back to vanilla Debian is because I prefer SBL to
> espeakup(the default text-mode screen reader in Debian), sbl isn't
> available in Debian's apt repositories, and I haven't figured out how
> to replicate Adriane's ability to launch Firefox and Orca without
> launching a full desktop environment under Debian. Still, Adriane
> seems like a good way for someone who's blind and new to Linux to get
> things done without having to constantly fight with the GUI or needing
> to jump into the deep end with the command line.
> 
> -- 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Jeffery Wright
> Bachelor of Computer Science
> President Emeritus, Nu Nu Chapter, Phi Theta Kappa.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list

Re: Newbie to linux and a question

[Linux for blind general discussion]

Don't worry, this list has everything from people dipping their toes
in Linux for the first time to veterans who remember when GUIs were
the new fad, and I'd estimate the majority of the list's activity is
asking for blind-friendly ways of accomplishing a task or getting
braille and/or speech up and running.

I've only really used Orca with Firefox(even before going blind six
years ago, I was on a trend towards doing more-and-more from the
command-line anyways), but the impression I get is that GTK
applications are kinda hit-and-miss and that QT applications are
completely non-Accessible(though, I get the impression the former has
more to due with UI developers having a tendency to make mouse driven
interfaces while keyboard controls are treated as an afterthought,
moreso than the status of assistive technology, while the latter is
due to QT simply not having the mature accessibility layer GTK does).
Of course, most text mode applications are accessibile thanks to being
mostly what text-to-speech is best at working with, though admittedly,
some ncurses-based applications don't always put text where it is
easily read or make use of non-language characters and text layouts
that don't parse well.

-- 
Sincerely,

Jeffery Wright
Bachelor of Computer Science
President Emeritus, Nu Nu Chapter, Phi Theta Kappa.

Re: Newbie to linux and a question

[Linux for blind general discussion]

Hi Michael,

On Fri, 14 Dec 2018 22:19:12 -0600
Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com> wrote:

> Hello list,
> 
> As a newbie to linux, I as wondering if anyone could tell me a good place to
> start to learn linux? I would like to learn as much as I could. However,. I
> have no clue on how to start.. I need to start at beginning bye do not know
> how to start. 
> 

welcome aboard!

Perhaps see this document we've written:
https://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/computers/open-source/how-to-start-contributing/tos-document.html
. I can also recommend this book I have read, but it is not gratis:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=how+linux+works+book&atb=v140-5b_&ia=web . You may be
able to find some other information on this list I help maintain:

https://github.com/shlomif/Freenode-programming-channel-FAQ/blob/master/FAQ.mdwn

There is also http://www.haifux.org/ and
https://www.shlomifish.org/lecture/W2L/ .

Good luck.

> Sincerely,
> 
> Michael maslo
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish       http://www.shlomifish.org/
What Makes Software Apps High Quality -  http://shlom.in/sw-quality

The C Preprocessor - There’s not supposed to be a way to do it.
    — http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/ways_to_do_it.html

Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .

Re: Newbie to linux and a question

[Linux for blind general discussion]

Hi list i too am a newby to linux, and was wondering after downloading 
an app from google search how to you know how to install or build the 
installer?  is there a file or a read me inside which tells you how to 
do it?  I looked at the linux cookbook and really didn't see that part 
of how to figure that out.   I know i  skimmed through, it and have a 
long way to go, lol.

On 12/15/2018 4:52 AM, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:
> Hi Michael,
>
> On Fri, 14 Dec 2018 22:19:12 -0600
> Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello list,
>>
>> As a newbie to linux, I as wondering if anyone could tell me a good place to
>> start to learn linux? I would like to learn as much as I could. However,. I
>> have no clue on how to start.. I need to start at beginning bye do not know
>> how to start.
>>
> welcome aboard!
>
> Perhaps see this document we've written:
> https://www.shlomifish.org/philosophy/computers/open-source/how-to-start-contributing/tos-document.html
> . I can also recommend this book I have read, but it is not gratis:
> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=how+linux+works+book&atb=v140-5b_&ia=web . You may be
> able to find some other information on this list I help maintain:
>
> https://github.com/shlomif/Freenode-programming-channel-FAQ/blob/master/FAQ.mdwn
>
> There is also http://www.haifux.org/ and
> https://www.shlomifish.org/lecture/W2L/ .
>
> Good luck.
>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Michael maslo
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blinux-list mailing list
>> Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>
>

Re: Newbie to linux and a question

[Linux for blind general discussion]

Okay, I'm not sure how to help a newbie get started, but one thing I
think worth mentioning given the most recent message:

Manually downloading, compiling, and installing application software
on a Linux machine is something even experienced users typically have
little reason to do on a daily basis. This is because most modern
distributions come with a built-in package manager that will,
instructed to install a given piece of software, automate the process
of downloading a precompiled for that distro package of the
application, packages for all its dependencies, and installing those
precompiled packages.

Sadly, package management is one of those things that differs from
distro-to-distro, though distros that are closely related often share
the same package manager(e.g. Debian, Ubuntu, Knoppix, and most other
distros derived from Debian or one of its derivatives all use apt as
their package management system and offer a few standard frontends).

Plus, many "newbie friendly" distros err on  the side of including as
many different packages in their default installation as can be
compressed to fit on the install media.

I'm really only familiar with debian derivatives and the apt package
manager, but some of the most important commands are:
sudo apt-get update
To refresh the package lists.
sudo apt-get upgrade
To install all available upgrades for installed packages.
and
sudo apt-get install [packagename]
To install the named package along with all its dependencies.

Also,
sudo aptitude
will laucnh a console frontend for apt called aptitude which provides
many useful features such as:
A tiered list of all available packages divided first by install
status(upgradeable, installed, not installed, obsolete or locally
installed), section(Admin, editors, libs, net, utilities, among
several dozen others), and license(differs on distro, but Debian
itself uses main for free software, contrib for non-free software that
meets some criteria I'm not entirely sure about, and non-free for all
other non-free software), and then alphabetically by package name.
pressing enter on a package name brings up lots of information on that
package, such as description, maintainer, size, dependencies, and
available versions.
many keyboard shortcuts for quickly marking a highlighted package for
upgrade/installation/removal/etc.
Built-in serach(useful for finding a package when you don't know its exact name.
Easy to read preview of pending actions prior to them being applied.
powerful conflict resolution capabilities.

And synaptic provides many of the same features in a gui application.

Oh, and if you really need to download and install something manually
because it isn't available through apt, Debian and its derivatives use
.deb packages, which can be installed by running:
sudo dpkg -i nameofpackage.deb

And as Debian and its derivatives are among the most widely used
distros, many devs will include .deb packages on their download pages.
Note: you're also likely to see .rpm packages, which are packages for
the Redhat Package Manager, used by Redhat Enterprise Linux, Fedora,
and their derivatives, and .tar.gz or .tar.bz2, which are compressed
tarballs, which usually contain a copy of a program's source code.
.rpm packages can be installed on Debian-derived systems, but this
requires the use of alien to handle the foreign package format and is
generally not recommended, and compiling from source generally isn't
needed unless you're part of active development.

I hope you find this information useful.

-- 
Sincerely,

Jeffery Wright
Bachelor of Computer Science
President Emeritus, Nu Nu Chapter, Phi Theta Kappa.

Re: Newbie to linux and a question

[Linux for blind general discussion]

Don't forget source distros like Gentoo or LFS. You can install your own package managers on those (and gentoo has one called portage), but your primary means of building packages is from source code.
And even if you're not interested in doing that, installing from source has become vastly simplified over the years; your average user need only run:
./configure
make
sudo make install
and this will install a program suitable for 99 percent of users' needs.
I won't touch on building things like apache, mysql and other database managers, or the linux kernel itself I wouldn't recommend a newby tackle those, anyway. But the above commands are good enough for just about any userland package.

----- Original Message -----
From: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
To: blinux-list@redhat.com
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2018 12:25:46 +0000
Subject: Re: Newbie to linux and a question

> Okay, I'm not sure how to help a newbie get started, but one thing I
> think worth mentioning given the most recent message:
> 
> Manually downloading, compiling, and installing application software
> on a Linux machine is something even experienced users typically have
> little reason to do on a daily basis. This is because most modern
> distributions come with a built-in package manager that will,
> instructed to install a given piece of software, automate the process
> of downloading a precompiled for that distro package of the
> application, packages for all its dependencies, and installing those
> precompiled packages.
> 
> Sadly, package management is one of those things that differs from
> distro-to-distro, though distros that are closely related often share
> the same package manager(e.g. Debian, Ubuntu, Knoppix, and most other
> distros derived from Debian or one of its derivatives all use apt as
> their package management system and offer a few standard frontends).
> 
> Plus, many "newbie friendly" distros err on  the side of including as
> many different packages in their default installation as can be
> compressed to fit on the install media.
> 
> I'm really only familiar with debian derivatives and the apt package
> manager, but some of the most important commands are:
> sudo apt-get update
> To refresh the package lists.
> sudo apt-get upgrade
> To install all available upgrades for installed packages.
> and
> sudo apt-get install [packagename]
> To install the named package along with all its dependencies.
> 
> Also,
> sudo aptitude
> will laucnh a console frontend for apt called aptitude which provides
> many useful features such as:
> A tiered list of all available packages divided first by install
> status(upgradeable, installed, not installed, obsolete or locally
> installed), section(Admin, editors, libs, net, utilities, among
> several dozen others), and license(differs on distro, but Debian
> itself uses main for free software, contrib for non-free software that
> meets some criteria I'm not entirely sure about, and non-free for all
> other non-free software), and then alphabetically by package name.
> pressing enter on a package name brings up lots of information on that
> package, such as description, maintainer, size, dependencies, and
> available versions.
> many keyboard shortcuts for quickly marking a highlighted package for
> upgrade/installation/removal/etc.
> Built-in serach(useful for finding a package when you don't know its exact name.
> Easy to read preview of pending actions prior to them being applied.
> powerful conflict resolution capabilities.
> 
> And synaptic provides many of the same features in a gui application.
> 
> Oh, and if you really need to download and install something manually
> because it isn't available through apt, Debian and its derivatives use
> .deb packages, which can be installed by running:
> sudo dpkg -i nameofpackage.deb
> 
> And as Debian and its derivatives are among the most widely used
> distros, many devs will include .deb packages on their download pages.
> Note: you're also likely to see .rpm packages, which are packages for
> the Redhat Package Manager, used by Redhat Enterprise Linux, Fedora,
> and their derivatives, and .tar.gz or .tar.bz2, which are compressed
> tarballs, which usually contain a copy of a program's source code.
> .rpm packages can be installed on Debian-derived systems, but this
> requires the use of alien to handle the foreign package format and is
> generally not recommended, and compiling from source generally isn't
> needed unless you're part of active development.
> 
> I hope you find this information useful.
> 
> -- 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Jeffery Wright
> Bachelor of Computer Science
> President Emeritus, Nu Nu Chapter, Phi Theta Kappa.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> 

Re: Newbie to linux and a question

[Linux for blind general discussion]

On 15/12/2018 13:33, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:
> Don't forget source distros like Gentoo or LFS. You can install your own package managers on those (and gentoo has one called portage), but your primary means of building packages is from source code.
> And even if you're not interested in doing that, installing from source has become vastly simplified over the years; your average user need only run:
> ./configure
> make
> sudo make install
> and this will install a program suitable for 99 percent of users' needs.
> I won't touch on building things like apache, mysql and other database managers, or the linux kernel itself I wouldn't recommend a newby tackle those, anyway. But the above commands are good enough for just about any userland package.

I disagree.

Doing this:
1) Often fails for lack of dependencies, not easy for a newbie to solve.
2) That makes hard to uninstall a software.
3) That makes more difficult to remember which software are installed.
4) You won't be warned of a security issue with the installed version.
5) More generally you deprive yourself of all the benefits of the
packages management system that your distribution provide.

Don't get me wrong: as a distribution maintainer and packager I am used
to compile software manually. But after quick tests I always make
packages that can be handled by the package management tools, to ease
users' life. 

If actually there is no pre-built package for your distribution for a
specific software, better learn how to make one yourself, which won't
happen often if you use a distribution like Debian.
Generally your Linux distribution provides tools to help you do that.

Best,
Didier
--
Didier Spaier
Slint distribution http://slint.fr

Re: Newbie to linux and a question

[Linux for blind general discussion]

I also wouldn't recommend a source distribution to a newbie. Hell,
I've been a full-time Linux user for over a decade, source most of my
system from Debian Unstable along with most of the available upgrades
from experimental, have done some rather hackerish things to my own
system, and Gentoo is ground I wouldn't dare to tread even if my
vision was miraculously restored.

Yes, compiling from source is much easier now than it was back when I
first tried Linux in the days when Fedora was new and Ubuntu didn't
exist yet, back in the days when compiling from source was the main
way of adding additional software beyond what was bundled on the
install CD, but I'd argue it should be the option of last resort for
most users these days.

Oh, and something I forgot to mention, if you use dpkg to manually
install a .deb, it will let you know if you are missing dependencies.
Sadly, I know of no means to have apt automatically download and
install the dependencies needed for a .deb you want to install
manually, but you can use the list dpkg prints to the screen as a
basis for what to tell apt to install.

-- 
Sincerely,

Jeffery Wright
Bachelor of Computer Science
President Emeritus, Nu Nu Chapter, Phi Theta Kappa.

Re: Newbie to linux and a question

[Linux for blind general discussion]

Well Jeffery, those dependancy issues are anoying here in Debian. When I ran a 
search, I saw suggestions of another package manager called
wajig
However, unless there are items I haven't configured, I am not noticing any 
improvements.
Chime

Re: Newbie to linux and a question

[Linux for blind general discussion]

I don't recommend gentoo.  Too easy to end up with a system with no
useable screen reader or at least that was the case with speakup a few
years ago when I tried that.  The fenrirscreenreader may have gotten
around that, but don't quote me on that.  The weird part with gentoo was
needing to build your kernel and getting espeak included in it
successfully.

On Sat, 15 Dec 2018, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:

> Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2018 07:33:43
> From: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> To: blinux-list@redhat.com
> Subject: Re: Newbie to linux and a question
>
> Don't forget source distros like Gentoo or LFS. You can install your own package managers on those (and gentoo has one called portage), but your primary means of building packages is from source code.
> And even if you're not interested in doing that, installing from source has become vastly simplified over the years; your average user need only run:
> ./configure
> make
> sudo make install
> and this will install a program suitable for 99 percent of users' needs.
> I won't touch on building things like apache, mysql and other database managers, or the linux kernel itself I wouldn't recommend a newby tackle those, anyway. But the above commands are good enough for just about any userland package.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> To: blinux-list@redhat.com
> Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2018 12:25:46 +0000
> Subject: Re: Newbie to linux and a question
>
> > Okay, I'm not sure how to help a newbie get started, but one thing I
> > think worth mentioning given the most recent message:
> >
> > Manually downloading, compiling, and installing application software
> > on a Linux machine is something even experienced users typically have
> > little reason to do on a daily basis. This is because most modern
> > distributions come with a built-in package manager that will,
> > instructed to install a given piece of software, automate the process
> > of downloading a precompiled for that distro package of the
> > application, packages for all its dependencies, and installing those
> > precompiled packages.
> >
> > Sadly, package management is one of those things that differs from
> > distro-to-distro, though distros that are closely related often share
> > the same package manager(e.g. Debian, Ubuntu, Knoppix, and most other
> > distros derived from Debian or one of its derivatives all use apt as
> > their package management system and offer a few standard frontends).
> >
> > Plus, many "newbie friendly" distros err on  the side of including as
> > many different packages in their default installation as can be
> > compressed to fit on the install media.
> >
> > I'm really only familiar with debian derivatives and the apt package
> > manager, but some of the most important commands are:
> > sudo apt-get update
> > To refresh the package lists.
> > sudo apt-get upgrade
> > To install all available upgrades for installed packages.
> > and
> > sudo apt-get install [packagename]
> > To install the named package along with all its dependencies.
> >
> > Also,
> > sudo aptitude
> > will laucnh a console frontend for apt called aptitude which provides
> > many useful features such as:
> > A tiered list of all available packages divided first by install
> > status(upgradeable, installed, not installed, obsolete or locally
> > installed), section(Admin, editors, libs, net, utilities, among
> > several dozen others), and license(differs on distro, but Debian
> > itself uses main for free software, contrib for non-free software that
> > meets some criteria I'm not entirely sure about, and non-free for all
> > other non-free software), and then alphabetically by package name.
> > pressing enter on a package name brings up lots of information on that
> > package, such as description, maintainer, size, dependencies, and
> > available versions.
> > many keyboard shortcuts for quickly marking a highlighted package for
> > upgrade/installation/removal/etc.
> > Built-in serach(useful for finding a package when you don't know its exact name.
> > Easy to read preview of pending actions prior to them being applied.
> > powerful conflict resolution capabilities.
> >
> > And synaptic provides many of the same features in a gui application.
> >
> > Oh, and if you really need to download and install something manually
> > because it isn't available through apt, Debian and its derivatives use
> > .deb packages, which can be installed by running:
> > sudo dpkg -i nameofpackage.deb
> >
> > And as Debian and its derivatives are among the most widely used
> > distros, many devs will include .deb packages on their download pages.
> > Note: you're also likely to see .rpm packages, which are packages for
> > the Redhat Package Manager, used by Redhat Enterprise Linux, Fedora,
> > and their derivatives, and .tar.gz or .tar.bz2, which are compressed
> > tarballs, which usually contain a copy of a program's source code.
> > .rpm packages can be installed on Debian-derived systems, but this
> > requires the use of alien to handle the foreign package format and is
> > generally not recommended, and compiling from source generally isn't
> > needed unless you're part of active development.
> >
> > I hope you find this information useful.
> >
> > --
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Jeffery Wright
> > Bachelor of Computer Science
> > President Emeritus, Nu Nu Chapter, Phi Theta Kappa.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blinux-list mailing list
> > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>

-- 

Re: Newbie to linux and a question

[Linux for blind general discussion]

great info thanks.

On 12/15/2018 7:25 AM, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:
> Okay, I'm not sure how to help a newbie get started, but one thing I
> think worth mentioning given the most recent message:
>
> Manually downloading, compiling, and installing application software
> on a Linux machine is something even experienced users typically have
> little reason to do on a daily basis. This is because most modern
> distributions come with a built-in package manager that will,
> instructed to install a given piece of software, automate the process
> of downloading a precompiled for that distro package of the
> application, packages for all its dependencies, and installing those
> precompiled packages.
>
> Sadly, package management is one of those things that differs from
> distro-to-distro, though distros that are closely related often share
> the same package manager(e.g. Debian, Ubuntu, Knoppix, and most other
> distros derived from Debian or one of its derivatives all use apt as
> their package management system and offer a few standard frontends).
>
> Plus, many "newbie friendly" distros err on  the side of including as
> many different packages in their default installation as can be
> compressed to fit on the install media.
>
> I'm really only familiar with debian derivatives and the apt package
> manager, but some of the most important commands are:
> sudo apt-get update
> To refresh the package lists.
> sudo apt-get upgrade
> To install all available upgrades for installed packages.
> and
> sudo apt-get install [packagename]
> To install the named package along with all its dependencies.
>
> Also,
> sudo aptitude
> will laucnh a console frontend for apt called aptitude which provides
> many useful features such as:
> A tiered list of all available packages divided first by install
> status(upgradeable, installed, not installed, obsolete or locally
> installed), section(Admin, editors, libs, net, utilities, among
> several dozen others), and license(differs on distro, but Debian
> itself uses main for free software, contrib for non-free software that
> meets some criteria I'm not entirely sure about, and non-free for all
> other non-free software), and then alphabetically by package name.
> pressing enter on a package name brings up lots of information on that
> package, such as description, maintainer, size, dependencies, and
> available versions.
> many keyboard shortcuts for quickly marking a highlighted package for
> upgrade/installation/removal/etc.
> Built-in serach(useful for finding a package when you don't know its exact name.
> Easy to read preview of pending actions prior to them being applied.
> powerful conflict resolution capabilities.
>
> And synaptic provides many of the same features in a gui application.
>
> Oh, and if you really need to download and install something manually
> because it isn't available through apt, Debian and its derivatives use
> .deb packages, which can be installed by running:
> sudo dpkg -i nameofpackage.deb
>
> And as Debian and its derivatives are among the most widely used
> distros, many devs will include .deb packages on their download pages.
> Note: you're also likely to see .rpm packages, which are packages for
> the Redhat Package Manager, used by Redhat Enterprise Linux, Fedora,
> and their derivatives, and .tar.gz or .tar.bz2, which are compressed
> tarballs, which usually contain a copy of a program's source code.
> .rpm packages can be installed on Debian-derived systems, but this
> requires the use of alien to handle the foreign package format and is
> generally not recommended, and compiling from source generally isn't
> needed unless you're part of active development.
>
> I hope you find this information useful.
>

Re: Newbie to linux and a question

[Linux for blind general discussion]

Can some1 please inform where to grab an SBL screen-reader? I remember in 2005 I 
ran Knopex which had an opening menu asking if I wanted YASR? Anyway the speech 
was an English-and-Russian synthesizer, which sounded grate. Thanks in advance
Chime

Re: Newbie to linux and a question

[Linux for blind general discussion]

Unfortunately, with the deprecation of Alioth, which hosted the apt
repository for knoppix software that isn't sourced directly from
Debian, I don't believe there is any source to download a .deb and to
my knowledge, OpenSuse was the only other distro to ever have packages
for sbl, and even when Alioth was around, I never succeeded in getting
sbl running on vanilla Debian using the .deb from the now defunct
knoppix repository.

That said, the following page provides both source code downloads and
urls for git repositories:

http://www.openblinux.de/en/index.php?page=download



-- 
Sincerely,

Jeffery Wright
Bachelor of Computer Science
President Emeritus, Nu Nu Chapter, Phi Theta Kappa.

Re: Newbie to linux and a question

[Linux for blind general discussion]

Hello Jeffery,

I didn't read your answer before sending mine.

At least I can tell the sbl runs on Slint. To be honest that's all
I know as I didn't try to use it in context (yet).

So I assume that it should run on Debian as well.

Best,

Didier
--
Didier Spaier
Slint distribution http://slint.fr

On 15/12/2018 22:44, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:
> Unfortunately, with the deprecation of Alioth, which hosted the apt
> repository for knoppix software that isn't sourced directly from
> Debian, I don't believe there is any source to download a .deb and to
> my knowledge, OpenSuse was the only other distro to ever have packages
> for sbl, and even when Alioth was around, I never succeeded in getting
> sbl running on vanilla Debian using the .deb from the now defunct
> knoppix repository.
> 
> That said, the following page provides both source code downloads and
> urls for git repositories:
> 
> http://www.openblinux.de/en/index.php?page=download

Re: Newbie to linux and a question

[Linux for blind general discussion]

Hello Chime,

I happened to get teh answer today (smile). So:

either (linked to from: http://www.knopper.net/knoppix-adriane/index-en.html then from http://www.openblinux.de/en/index.php?page=download)
http://www.openblinux.de/download/sbl-3.5.0.tgz
Or:
http://download.opensuse.org/source/distribution/leap/15.1/repo/oss/src/sbl-3.5.0.20130317.git7a75bc29-lp151.3.2.src.rpm
(Yes it is shipped in OpenSUSE too)

I didn't diff the two sources, but successfully built the one from openblinux.de on Slint.
Caveat: you will need to add the -fPIC options to CFLAGS in brld/Makefile, line #21 and also replace
#include <libspeechd.h>
with
#include <speech-dispatcher/libspeechd.h>
in speechdlib.h, line 4
as (here at least) this header from speech-dispatcher is installed as /usr/include/speech-dispatcher/libspeechd.h
There is no configure script, that's why I did it that way.

Hope this helps.

Best,

Didier
--
Didier Spaier
Slint distribution http://slint.fr

On 15/12/2018 22:26, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:
> Can some1 please inform where to grab an SBL screen-reader? I remember in 2005 I ran Knopex which had an opening menu asking if I wanted YASR? Anyway the speech was an English-and-Russian synthesizer, which sounded grate. Thanks in advance
> Chime
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> 

Re: Newbie to linux and a question

[Linux for blind general discussion]

Hello again Chime,

I forgot to add: there is also RHVoice: https://github.com/Olga-Yakovleva/RHVoice/

I just packaged it for Slint, it is easy to integrate with speech-dispatcher (the module is already there), it has good (to my ears) voices for English, Russian, Ukrainian, and also Esperanto, Tatar, Kyrgyz, Russian and Georgian.

Caveat: build against master and also speech-dispatcher master. In addition, to get the voice list in spd-say and orca you will need to apply this patch:
http://slackware.uk/slint/x86_64/slint-14.2.1/next/source/RHvoice/in_list_voices_separator_is_always_tab.diff

and also:
Add a dummy config file in /etc/speech-dispatcher/modules: 
echo "# dummy config file for RHVoice"" > /etc/speech-dispatcher/modules/rhvoice.conf
Add a line for it in /etc/speech-dispatcher/speechd.conf:
#AddModule "rhvoice"     "sd_rhvoice"   "rhvoice.conf"

Sorry for the OT,

Best,

Didier
--
Didier Spaier
Slint distribution http://slint.fr


On 15/12/2018 22:26, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:
> Can some1 please inform where to grab an SBL screen-reader? I remember in 2005 I ran Knopex which had an opening menu asking if I wanted YASR? Anyway the speech was an English-and-Russian synthesizer, which sounded grate. Thanks in advance
> Chime
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> 

Re: Newbie to linux and a question

[Linux for blind general discussion]

sudo apt-cache search package_name|less is also very useful.  That one
allows users to search for packages and presents available choices one
screen at a time.  If a user finds a package they want to install on a
screen, they can type control-z which backgrounds the sudo apt-cache
search package_name command then they can type sudo apt-get install
package_name to get that package.  Then they can type fg <enter> to
foreground the original sudo apt-cache search package_name command and
continue reading from where they left off.

On Sat, 15 Dec 2018, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:

> Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2018 16:22:51
> From: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> To: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> Subject: Re: Newbie to linux and a question
>
> great info thanks.
>
> On 12/15/2018 7:25 AM, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:
> > Okay, I'm not sure how to help a newbie get started, but one thing I
> > think worth mentioning given the most recent message:
> >
> > Manually downloading, compiling, and installing application software
> > on a Linux machine is something even experienced users typically have
> > little reason to do on a daily basis. This is because most modern
> > distributions come with a built-in package manager that will,
> > instructed to install a given piece of software, automate the process
> > of downloading a precompiled for that distro package of the
> > application, packages for all its dependencies, and installing those
> > precompiled packages.
> >
> > Sadly, package management is one of those things that differs from
> > distro-to-distro, though distros that are closely related often share
> > the same package manager(e.g. Debian, Ubuntu, Knoppix, and most other
> > distros derived from Debian or one of its derivatives all use apt as
> > their package management system and offer a few standard frontends).
> >
> > Plus, many "newbie friendly" distros err on  the side of including as
> > many different packages in their default installation as can be
> > compressed to fit on the install media.
> >
> > I'm really only familiar with debian derivatives and the apt package
> > manager, but some of the most important commands are:
> > sudo apt-get update
> > To refresh the package lists.
> > sudo apt-get upgrade
> > To install all available upgrades for installed packages.
> > and
> > sudo apt-get install [packagename]
> > To install the named package along with all its dependencies.
> >
> > Also,
> > sudo aptitude
> > will laucnh a console frontend for apt called aptitude which provides
> > many useful features such as:
> > A tiered list of all available packages divided first by install
> > status(upgradeable, installed, not installed, obsolete or locally
> > installed), section(Admin, editors, libs, net, utilities, among
> > several dozen others), and license(differs on distro, but Debian
> > itself uses main for free software, contrib for non-free software that
> > meets some criteria I'm not entirely sure about, and non-free for all
> > other non-free software), and then alphabetically by package name.
> > pressing enter on a package name brings up lots of information on that
> > package, such as description, maintainer, size, dependencies, and
> > available versions.
> > many keyboard shortcuts for quickly marking a highlighted package for
> > upgrade/installation/removal/etc.
> > Built-in serach(useful for finding a package when you don't know its exact
> > name.
> > Easy to read preview of pending actions prior to them being applied.
> > powerful conflict resolution capabilities.
> >
> > And synaptic provides many of the same features in a gui application.
> >
> > Oh, and if you really need to download and install something manually
> > because it isn't available through apt, Debian and its derivatives use
> > .deb packages, which can be installed by running:
> > sudo dpkg -i nameofpackage.deb
> >
> > And as Debian and its derivatives are among the most widely used
> > distros, many devs will include .deb packages on their download pages.
> > Note: you're also likely to see .rpm packages, which are packages for
> > the Redhat Package Manager, used by Redhat Enterprise Linux, Fedora,
> > and their derivatives, and .tar.gz or .tar.bz2, which are compressed
> > tarballs, which usually contain a copy of a program's source code.
> > .rpm packages can be installed on Debian-derived systems, but this
> > requires the use of alien to handle the foreign package format and is
> > generally not recommended, and compiling from source generally isn't
> > needed unless you're part of active development.
> >
> > I hope you find this information useful.
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>
>

--