From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx06.intmail.prod.int.rdu2.redhat.com [10.11.54.6]) by lists01.pubmisc.prod.ext.phx2.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 021MIhnt011365 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 2020 17:18:43 -0500 Received: by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) id 6F4CA2166B2B; Sun, 1 Mar 2020 22:18:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mimecast-mx02.redhat.com (mimecast05.extmail.prod.ext.rdu2.redhat.com [10.11.55.21]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B5122166B2D for ; Sun, 1 Mar 2020 22:18:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from us-smtp-1.mimecast.com (us-smtp-delivery-1.mimecast.com [207.211.31.120]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx02.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E5E1800294 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 2020 22:18:41 +0000 (UTC) ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dkim.mimecast.com; s=201903; t=1583101121; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=eFfq99SLaST0eoCwhb95lWIuD00GP6mM+vNXQm7nCSg=; b=lN/s5jle1N+Til8NnKmRvep2YSiLC2mGObE2JHInHGhCIMYkrTWXphVSyEqvp/UeJcmokp C9a5LETpJXk9LffZH7kAEvrN0VXX2hoL/P1lFi/TVLqaj58+Y94m+e521o2nEyU+/Zy9PP 783hyXcSohKU4hKTwtbitgo2IAx+YL84PQ6CglO8EPiHfUcn92j+Qo6xZpWpVH06CV9DeG hc+ZAmhWCD3ynmBolg+0Bqsmu8yHGECOgS+W9dkQuo/fHId4+z7xjVDq5aT44d71PgsO0W y9V5jbh0oaL16aT/KYZaHdZjYWWiktNsp/20KcKRUt+6AXpYkt2o9ZeZedqiMQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=201903; d=dkim.mimecast.com; t=1583101121; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=IPoynyaSbcWanYFGUpIxxVeG0f/ld25XVnQKIfThF2jhmu8gU22Pl5HUYVlri60UTT+H7d DJVQ/R3xBAhAhvWIlf9iahOFHv6X24LIZ4iEpiA/MI2wtzieMjoAtmzt0TNFdLXjmqAkH9 zB9666lWP3rlJMB59EfLcDHIrVsdOplWMpmrXqiGIy6wrcBxgQGRx5oGQ3TkHgIy6IsGpT W8xjzBOJQEj/Sg0Zqxc8d80/l3X4mTDixNNGWgN+5V7aYqBTjy5K49efM1LBHPeZPbZKk6 ieDcNIKHUIZNaq1c8FtTQcFXAXVo037P7p2K65zng5Pi2RZ0ETuJsoPXVK+myw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; relay.mimecast.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (relay.mimecast.com: domain of jdashiel@panix.com designates 166.84.1.89 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jdashiel@panix.com Received: from mailbackend.panix.com (mailbackend.panix.com [166.84.1.89]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-131-4FUjjN4DOjWPGhYP34Viqw-1; Sun, 01 Mar 2020 17:18:39 -0500 X-MC-Unique: 4FUjjN4DOjWPGhYP34Viqw-1 Received: from panix1.panix.com (panix1.panix.com [166.84.1.1]) by mailbackend.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48VyNG35Z5z1qjB for ; Sun, 1 Mar 2020 17:18:38 -0500 (EST) Received: by panix1.panix.com (Postfix, from userid 20712) id 48VyNG1ZHMzcbc; Sun, 1 Mar 2020 17:18:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by panix1.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48VyNG13QxzcbW for ; Sun, 1 Mar 2020 17:18:38 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 17:18:37 -0500 To: Linux for blind general discussion Subject: Re: Want to try a GUI. Which one is best? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <20200301111759.GA12551@abilitiessoft> <20200301173057.GA14419@abilitiessoft> MIME-Version: 1.0 Authentication-Results: relay.mimecast.com; dkim=none; spf=pass (relay.mimecast.com: domain of jdashiel@panix.com designates 166.84.1.89 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jdashiel@panix.com X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.78 on 10.11.54.6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by lists01.pubmisc.prod.ext.phx2.redhat.com id 021MIhnt011365 X-loop: blinux-list@redhat.com From: Linux for blind general discussion X-BeenThere: blinux-list@redhat.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: junk Reply-To: blinux-list@redhat.com List-Id: Linux for blind general discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2020 22:18:44 -0000 This approach is good until lxdm and/or mate run into difficulty. Then your computer magically turns into a paperweight unless you have a rescue disk and know how to find the problem and recover from it. If you go into console and run startx to get to the graphical user interface you're already logged in and if the graphical user interface or any part of it does not work, you still have the command line environment to use until you can get the graphical user interface fixed. On Sun, 1 Mar 2020, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: > Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 15:30:17 > From: Linux for blind general discussion > To: blinux-list@redhat.com > Subject: Re: Want to try a GUI. Which one is best? > > Ouch. All that just seems like a lot of roundabout to have to do. I install a full MATE desktop along with Orca, set org.gnome.desktop.a11y.applications screen-reader-enabled and org.mate.interface accessibility true if necessary and use the lxdm display manager to start it. I then only have to change three lines to get a fully accessible desktop running at boot time. First, I uncomment the line that begins with autologin and set it true. Then I change the automatically logged in user from dgod to my username and uncomment that line. Then the only other thing I need to do is to uncomment the line that begins with session and change it from /usr/bin/startlxde to /usr/bin/mate-session. This approach of course doesn't work all that well on multi-user systems, but in most cases it's all you need. In this way, you always start with a desktop running, and if you need to do anything in a terminal, you can just open mate-terminal. I find myself using the terminal rather infrequently these d > ays for anything other than building source code, complex file management that still works better from a shell and package management, although there are package management applications available for most distros that don't require a terminal and work rather well, especially for finding new software. Most applications work so well with Orca that I have found desktop applications generally easier to use than chatty terminal output and page-by-page reading and the like. > > On March 1, 2020 1:07:30 PM EST, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: > >The most useful approach for accessibility users unless they use a > >mouse > >is to install startx and ratpoison and then have ratpoison run which > >brings up startx and startx then brings up mate. The ratpoison is a > >package which when you get it working makes startx accessible more so > >than it already is. > > > >On Sun, 1 Mar 2020, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: > > > >> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 13:02:51 > >> From: Linux for blind general discussion > >> To: Linux for blind general discussion > >> Subject: Re: Want to try a GUI. Which one is best? > >> > >> This is really something debian does not provide. Archlinux that can > >be > >> done with installing a few of the correct packages and I don't > >remember > >> the list now didn't save it in braille. Now, with slint you can do > >all > >> of that and that's one of the installation choices. Slint doesn't > >have > >> gnome either but does have mate. > >> https://slint.fr/ is the first url and search the page for > >accessibility > >> and read what you find. > >> > >> On Sun, 1 Mar 2020, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: > >> > >> > Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 12:30:57 > >> > From: Linux for blind general discussion > >> > To: Linux for blind general discussion > >> > Subject: Re: Want to try a GUI. Which one is best? > >> > > >> > Hello, > >> > > >> > Thanks for all your suggestions. I have Debian Buster, command-line > >only. I may just wait until the next Debian testing is available and > >see if they include Mate. > >> > I > >> > will be using brltty, and no speech. > >> > > >> > This leaves one concern in my original message for discussion. I > >want Debian to boot into the command-line, but I want to have a command > >or script for starting > >> > the GUI when I need it. > >> > > >> > Thanks, > >> > John J. Boyer > >> > > >> > On Sun, Mar 01, 2020 at 01:54:07PM +0000, Linux for blind general > >discussion wrote: > >> > > Best I can tell, Mate 1.24 is currently available in both Debian > >> > > Testing(aka Bull's Eye which will eventually become Debian 11) > >and > >> > > Debian Unstable(aka Sid). > >> > > > >> > > It's unlikely something as big as a new version of Mate will make > >it > >> > > into Debian 9 aka Stretch or oldstable or Debian 10 aka Buster or > >> > > Stable as Debian priortizes stability over cutting edge, though > >it > >> > > might make it into backports(more likely for Buster than for > >Stretch, > >> > > but I confess to not knowing how long Debian supports Oldstable > >when a > >> > > new Stable is released). > >> > > > >> > > That said, while Orca, the primary, and possibly only, graphical > >> > > screen reader for Linux, is officially part of Gnome and > >persumably > >> > > optimized for that environment, and probably works so well with > >Mate > >> > > due to Mate's origins as a Gnome fork(as I understand it, Gnome 3 > >> > > brought many controversial changes to look and feel and Mate > >startedas > >> > > a way to keep the Gnome 2.x look and feel in an updated > >environment), > >> > > Orca should, in theory, be able to work with any GTK-based > >Desktop > >> > > Environment or Window Manager, though anything QT-based(KDE chief > >> > > among them) is currently a bit hit or miss. > >> > > > >> > > Gnome or Mate might be the best options for a beginner as they're > >the > >> > > most well documented DEs for using them with Orca, but Knoppix > >using a > >> > > combination of LXDE and Orca when launching a full Desktop seems > >to > >> > > work well, and I've heard people have had success with the > >ratpoison > >> > > window Manager. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > > Blinux-list mailing list > >> > > Blinux-list@redhat.com > >> > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > > >-- > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Blinux-list mailing list > >Blinux-list@redhat.com > >https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > ~Kyle > _______________________________________________ > Blinux-list mailing list > Blinux-list@redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > --