Re: Digital Talking Book Standard

[cbowman <cbowman@netdoor.com>]

hi, ok thanks for the info on that.  
charles 


On Tue, 20 Nov 2001, Brent Harding wrote:

> It's secure shell. Basically, encrypted telnet connections, and more.
> At 08:37 AM 11/20/01 -0600, you wrote:
> >hi luke, and listers.  luke, I have heard of ssh but, wasn't sure just
> >what that is. is that something like telnet, or like a mod just wondering. 
> >thanks 
> >charles 
> >
> >
> >On Tue, 20 Nov 2001, Luke Davis wrote:
> >
> >> For streaming you would use something dynamic such as SSH, not PGP.
> >> However I see your point.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Mon, 19 Nov 2001, Brent Harding wrote:
> >> 
> >> > Wow, so how would the public/private key encryption work to get the books
> >> > rolling? I suppose, using something like pgp, I could generate you a
> key if
> >> > I were the publisher and send it to you on a disk, and encrypt all the
> >> > content I want you to have with it. But this involves a manual process
> for
> >> > every individual. Thus for example, pgp shoutcast can't exist, in the
> >> > current protocols since only one key can decrypt any one data stream. And
> >> > also, some how you have to turn the encrypted content in to audio that
> can
> >> > be transmitted through such things if you wanted a pay to hear audio
> stream
> >> > for whatever it be. I was thinking of the idea once, but winamp would
> choke
> >> > on the encrypted mp3 stream and refuse to transmit it, although in
> linux to
> >> > decode you could theoretically do something like
> >> > lynx --source http://aaa.bbb.ccc.ddd:port | pgp -d
> >> > and enter your password for your private key.
> >> > At 11:46 AM 11/19/01 -0500, you wrote:
> >> > >Martin, your message is apt and to the point. And, your instinct for a
> >> > >FREE software digital talking book player is also on the mark. Now is a
> >> > >very, very good time for such a player to come into existence. As
> someone
> >> > >who continues to be very involved in the development of the
> NISO/DAISY dtb
> >> > >standard, I'd like to pose a challenge to the programmers among us:
> >> > >
> >> > >Please give us a dtb player or two which supports the new NISO/DAISY
> >> > >standards--mostly. I say"mostly" because it is not the end of the
> world if
> >> > >you can't immediately support MPEG. Please know that the NISO/DAISY
> >> > >standards people are keenly aware of the problems posed by specifying
> >> > >MPEG. Regretably, ogg-vorbis was not judged ready for prime time yet--so
> >> > >if someone wants to work on that, that would also be helpful, because we
> >> > >truly need a GPL compression package that provides quality files that
> will
> >> > >compete well with MPEG.
> >> > >
> >> > >Let me say why we need a GPL dtb player right now. I am seriously
> >> > >concerned that agencies will impose some kind of encryption technologies
> >> > >which they will not want to describe to GPL programmers. That would be
> >> > >most unfortunate. Far better, imho, for this community to show that a
> GPL
> >> > >player can really do the job of accessing (both text and audio) dtbs
> well.
> >> > >Far better to show that public/private key encryption may just be
> adequate
> >> > >enough.
> >> > >
> >> > >The pendulum has swung away from tight controls, at least among the
> >> > >libraries that serve our communities today. Frankly, the earlier version
> >> > >of the NISO standard was a bit stricter about copyright
> enforcement--what
> >> > >the publishers like to call "Digital Rights Management." I think even
> our
> >> > >earlier, stricter model was still smarter than what we've been seeing
> from
> >> > >commercial ebook publishers. The commercial publishers are putting the
> >> > >onus on the user and are killing industry prospects by doing so. The
> >> > >earlier recommendations are still online at:
> >> > >
> >> > >	http://www.loc.gov/nls/niso/drm.htm
> >> > >
> >> > >In summary, this earlier document expects that some, but certainly not
> >> > >all, titles produced as digital talking books will need to be restricted
> >> > >to qualified recipients in order to maintain long standing programs of
> >> > >free access to books--as with NLS here in the U.S. This would also apply
> >> > >to U.S. agencies such as RFB&D. It would, in fact, be the copyright
> >> > >management scheme which would distinguish titles produced in the NISO
> >> > >standard as qualified titles under the so-called "Chafee Amendement" to
> >> > >U.S. Copyright law. Chafee is a good thing, and we should not lose it.
> >> > >
> >> > >The DMCA is another matter entirely. The NISO thinking was to put the
> >> > >emphasis on catching willful violaters, not on needlessly encumbering
> >> > >honest users. My expectation is that public/private key can do this very
> >> > >well--and can do it in a platform independ matter.
> >> > >
> >> > >Of course there's a chicken and egg aspect to all of this. Who would
> build
> >> > >a player when there's nothing to play? How would one even test it?
> Yet, I
> >> > >would think that this community would not want to leave the
> definitions of
> >> > >what's possible to agencies who are far more steeped in proprietary
> >> > >software than is probably good for the community at large. So, let me
> >> > >simply offer this: I will find some NISO/DAISY content for you to test a
> >> > >player with if you are building a GPL player and need something to work
> >> > >with. Just write me privately.
> >> > >
> >> > >Lastly, let me say just a little more about how much content is actually
> >> > >out there. There is virtually none in the newest version of the standard
> >> > >simply because it's still not 100% nailed down. The NISO folks have
> until
> >> > >December 17 to vote on the specifications that were submitted to them
> just
> >> > >a few weeks ago. You should know that we truly do not expect any
> problems
> >> > >with this voting, and we do expect a lovely Christmas pressent shortly
> >> > >after December 17.
> >> > >
> >> > >There is a fair amount of content available to earlier incarnations
> of the
> >> > >digital talking book specifications as produced by DAISY. In particular,
> >> > >it may be important for players to support the new NISO/DAISY
> >> > >specifications at:
> >> > >
> >> > >	http://www.loc.gov/nls/niso
> >> > >
> >> > >as well as the older, DAISY 2.0 specifications which can be found at:
> >> > >
> >> > >	http://www.daisy.org
> >> > >
> >> > >In particular, RFB&D has been quietly testing textbooks in several K-12
> >> > >schools for blind children around the U.S. They are hoping to begin
> >> > >offering about 3,000 titles encoded in DAISY 2.0 to all their clients
> >> > >sometime during 2002. Also, the talking book programs at CNIB and RNIB
> >> > >(U.K.) are expecting to launch programs for their clients in the
> spring of
> >> > >2002 with approximately2,500 titles in each. So, as you can see, content
> >> > >does already exist in the older DAISY 2.0 specification, though it is
> not
> >> > >yet generally available.
> >> > >
> >> > >Last point on the encryption issues. We expect that whatever copyright
> >> > >based encryption/decryption is involved needs to be nationally based. In
> >> > >other words, the laws that authorize free programs for blind (and
> >> > >otherwise print disabled) people differ country to country. So, any
> >> > >support for a particular solution needs to be modular in order to handle
> >> > >such national differences.
> >> > >
> >> > >I want to end on a more cheerful point. Even mainstream publishers are
> >> > >beginning to realize that encumbering users is a bad way to promote the
> >> > >value of electronic publishing. Please take a look at this website:
> >> > >
> >> > >	http://www.openanebook.org
> >> > >
> >> > >It is intended to be a place for publishers of all kinds to offer their
> >> > >free content and their free tools. So, if you know of any, please offer
> >> > >them up there. And, if you have influence with any blindness agency or
> >> > >ebook publishers, please get them to join DAISY and/or OEBF. We need
> >> > >broader participation in both places in order to realize a vision of
> >> > >epublishing which creates accessible titles that are comfortable and fun
> >> > >to use while still paying authors and editors for the value they add.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > On
> >> > >Mon, 19 Nov 2001, Martin G. McCormick wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >> 	I certainly hope that players for DTB's will be available
> >> > >> for Linux when the technology actually begins to bear fruit.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> 	This truly is a wonderful next step in the Talking Book
> >> > >> program. Just think of the logistical problems of moving and
> >> > >> caring for physical materials that this solves.  There will still
> >> > >> need to be traditional Talking Books for many years to come, but
> >> > >> I think this is the future and it may get to a point where there
> >> > >> won't need to be as many physical recordings produced as there
> >> > >> are now.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> 	The one thing I see as holding things up is the one
> >> > >> artificial technical issue and that is DRM or Digital Rights
> >> > >> Management.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> 	How is that going to be accomplished?  The standards
> >> > >> document simply says that digital rights management will be
> >> > >> supported but probably wisely does not prescribe exactly what
> >> > >> sort of mechanism will be used.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> 	Hopefully, being eligible to receive traditional Talking
> >> > >> Books and Braille materials will enable one to also receive any
> >> > >> DTB's they are entitled to receive.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> 	In the main-stream consumer world, digital rights
> >> > >> management has not been doing too well.  Some systems are hacked
> >> > >> almost before they are released.  Other systems tend to do the
> >> > >> opposite and malfunction in ways their developers never thought
> >> > >> of to cause honest users of the technology to be denied service.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> 	Some rights management systems have even gained the
> >> > >> distinction of suffering from both maladies.  The crackers
> >> > >> de fang the protection and the honest users discover that the
> >> > >> software thinks they are thieves because of something their
> >> > >> equipment or they accidentally did.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> 	This issue, not technology, has held up everything from
> >> > >> digital audio tape a decade or so ago to present-day high-definition
> >> > >> television systems.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> 	Linux and FreeBSD should actually be good test beds for
> >> > >> this technology because it is based on open-source models and any
> >> > >> hanky panky mechanisms such as back doors or scripting
> >> > >> applications are a little easier to police than they are in
> >> > >> proprietary operating systems.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Martin McCormick WB5AGZ  Stillwater, OK
> >> > >> OSU Center for Computing and Information Services Network
> Operations Group
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> _______________________________________________
> >> > >> Blinux-list mailing list
> >> > >> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> >> > >> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> >> > >>
> >> > >
> >> > >--
> >> > >
> >> > >				Janina Sajka, Director
> >> > >				Technology Research and Development
> >> > >				Governmental Relations Group
> >> > >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >> > >
> >> > >Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >> > >
> >> > >Chair, Accessibility SIG
> >> > >Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> >> > >http://www.openebook.org
> >> > >
> >> > >Will electronic books surpass print books? Read our white paper,
> >> > >Surpassing Gutenberg, at http://www.afb.org/ebook.asp
> >> > >
> >> > >Download a free sample Digital Talking Book edition of Martin Luther
> >> > >King Jr's inspiring "I Have A Dream" speech at
> >> > >http://www.afb.org/mlkweb.asp
> >> > >
> >> > >Learn how to make accessible software at
> >> > >http://www.afb.org/accessapp.asp
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >_______________________________________________
> >> > >Blinux-list mailing list
> >> > >Blinux-list@redhat.com
> >> > >https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Blinux-list mailing list
> >> > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> >> > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> >> >
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Blinux-list mailing list
> >> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> >> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> >> 
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Blinux-list mailing list
> >Blinux-list@redhat.com
> >https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>