FAQ Suggestions/Perceptions from a Novice--worth 2 cents.

* FAQ Suggestions/Perceptions from a Novice--worth 2 cents.
@  Gary Wynn
   ` Rick Hayner
                   ` (4 more replies)
  0 siblings, 5 replies; 9+ messages in thread
From: Gary Wynn @  UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Blinux

Hi, Hans,

Let me first begin by making a peace offering.  I am not posting this to
diminish any person, their very considered contributions, intelligently
presented work, or well thought out statements.  I am volunteering to be a
novice at testing and attempting to follow any document/FAQ that is offered
that will help me run Linux with speech in a way that is usable for anything
other than a classroom exercise.

I have the greatest respect to all who have contributed to the FAQ, and who
have helped me to get this far.  My respect is heightened, if anything, by my
own real frustration at finding this to be difficult.  I truly admire anyone
who is blind who is using Linux successfully with speech--especially when
they are doing it unsupported by a local guru!

The following are perceptions of MINE.  This is no scientific document, but
is offered as ONE novice's attempt to provide a perspective on why some of us
have difficulty with Linux.  Consider it an ethnographic offering.

Let's begin by defining a *novice*.

I am a novice.  That means that I am a DOS user--a good one, but that is the
language/system I understand.  I have read many references in linux/unix, but
still do not know anything about actually using it for anything.  I can do
some academic exercises like copy files, move files, create directories, and
list files.

I have a DOS system that meets my needs fairly well.  The limitation being
communications and net access.  I use a provider that offers me a shell
account on a linux system.

I use Lynx to access the web.  At this moment, that is the only significant
access I have.

I have a Linux partition with Red Hat 6.1 installed with SpeakUp, thanks to
Matt Campbell.  I have not been able to make much use of it due to a lack of
understanding as to how to do more than move around in Linux, do basic file
operations, and try to figure out how to make it do what I do daily--which I
have not been at all successful at doing, so I still use DOS for everything.

I have accessed the Blinux FAQ via Lynx from my DOS machine running Commo.  I
have read the FAQ twice.

Several impressions/challenges presented themselves to me:

1.  The FAQ is linguistically and structurally a document for a user far more
advanced than I now am.  By that, I mean that it offers much information, but
assumes that one is first, accessing it through linux!

It would be nice if it offers a way to download the FAQ via lynx, which is
how I accessed it.  I tried to capture the text, but Lynx and Commo capture
are not in agreement about that.  The capture file was a series of pages with
screens overlaying each other--useless.

With out the FAQ in hand, so to speak, I have to rely on memory for accessing
other resources that it suggests.  It is a treasure in terms of a reference,
but unless I have it in my DOS machine, I have no ready way to make use of it.

2.  I tried out the link to search the archives, and found that when it said
to "press <return> to activate, that I only took off on another link, and
lost my place.  I did not try that again.

I know Lynx is pretty primitive about accessing most websites, which is
another problem with many of the resources suggested.

I followed the excellent advice given by Matt in the FAQ to access
CheapBytes.com for documentation.  I found a disk of Red Hat documentation
for a couple of bucks, but Lynx and CheapBytes don't agree on letting me
access any way to actually order the disk.   CheapBytes has no 800 number, or
alternative way to order from what I could find.  There is a method for
faxing in an order, but with no way to download the offering, I am not sure
how to actually order the item.  Screen capture failed again.

4.  Several other resource lists are mentioned that are good places to learn
about Linux for newbies.  Wow! Just what I want!  How about a link that lets
me fill in my info, and sends it to the list for me?  I do not remember the
addresses, and did not successfully capture them.

5.  There is a mention of how to use a DOS Emulator for running DOS programs!
 Just what I want most to do, so I can get started doing things in a Linux
environment, while getting around all the thousands of details I do not know,
by working in DOS as I need to as my files and info are all in DOS.

There is no actual FAQ on how to do this.  A step by step document helping a
person to set this up, and truly get going using the advantages of Linux with
DOS data/programs would be a tremendous asset.

There is a reference to using the IBM SpeakOut, but again, a step by step FAQ
on why this is desirable, what is involved in doing it, and some guidance in
actually obtaining it would be helpful.  I doubt I need it, but a newbie is
never sure of what is necessary and what is not.  I use a Lite Talk, and that
seems okay.  Is there some reason why it is less preferable to the SpeakOut?

6.  I got a wonderful bit of advice from a highly knowledgeable person about
a program called ZipSpeak, that operates under DOS and lets me have access to
Linux while I am learning it.  I looked for the FAQ to guide me in
finding/using it, but I did not find any reference to it.  Is this something
that might be added?  I would love to have that capability at present.

7.  There is mention in the FAQ of discussions in the past in regard to a
Speech Distribution of Linux.  I witnessed one such discussion on this list
months ago--yes, I monitored it for many months without ever commenting. 
Most messages are so far beyond my understanding that I only barely grasp the
import of them.  As a knowledgeable Linux user, I am a good dog trainer.

I understand why the need for such a distribution arises from time to time. 
There is no simple manual, system, or even a step by step series of documents
that truly helps a person who is blind to *INDEPENDENTLY* get started with
linux. There was with DOS.

I taught myself DOS from a couple of simple silly programs like Simply, and
the DOS reference manual, and an RFB offering of Running MSDOS.  I wish that
Linux were so well organized in documentation.  There is a ton of it, but
what is lacking is the step by step simplistic system for getting it going in
a productive manner that helps a novice *home*  user.

I have tried for months to locate a local guru to help in tutoring me in
Linux, or helping me with my system, but with no luck.  The best I have is a
local computer shop that will provide some basic help for $75 an hour--not
helpful to me.

Could this FAQ, or a series of them, set out to guide-educate the naive DOS
user to becoming familiar with, and knowledgeable enough with Linux, and
related applications, so that reasonable and normal home activities might  be
done?  Such a system has to work in terms and relational ideas similar to
those used in references like Running MSDOS.  Terms and their relationship to
hardware/software have to be defined in simple ways that relate to home use,
and not a Unix environment.  

Having made some attempt to learn Linux the hard way, I have an enormous
respect for DOS, its simplicity, its utility, its growth and capability, that
I never had before.  I used to swear at it as much as anyone else, but now I
know how really great such applications like 4DOS are!  I would love to have
a 4Linux!

The danger is that DOS is dying. Internet providers are no longer interested
in shell accounts like mine, and do not support them.  My postings contain
the date 19100, because my version of ELM on my provider's system is not Y2K
compliant.  Sometimes it has other glitches, as well.  It is only a matter of
time for such things to be eliminated in the competition among providers to
put everyone online. More than ever, there needs to be a simpler process for
educating us DOS users into the Linux environment without having to go back
to get yet another, graduate degree!  Most of us have a limited amount of time
in our lives, and spending hundreds and hundreds of hours on a new system to
learn the jargon and culture is not realistic for us.  What can be done to
organize the information and guide a person through the steps in a simple and
hopefully, failsafe manner?

8.  Hans mentions the Deja. com as a resource.  I visited it via Lynx, and
found it to be much like other experiences in lynx--frustrating.  I can read
what is there, but I could not successfully do anything but read it.  I am
not sure even what it is for other than purchasing things that are not
accessible.  I have never used a search engine successfully.

9.  The FAQ does do well at covering an enormous amount of information as
concisely as it can.  It is difficult for a novice to understand what many
things are for, and what they do for a person using them.  I read about many
of them, and I still do not really know. EmacSpeak makes Emacs talk, but what
good is Emacs as an application?  It seems to be some type of editor cum
Desqview, but even after reading the manual for it, going through the
tutorial, and reading a couple of references about it, I still see little
practical use for it.  No macros??? SHUDDER!--Desqview has those.   I HAD to
have missed something.  

Thanks for considering the questions.  My Pogo computer has crashed, and is
not recovering.  It has Red Hat 6.1 on it, with YASR and EmacSpeak.   It is
probably easiest to start from scratch, and partition the drives, format a
Dos partition first, then set up a working and usable Linux system for a
novice.  How might this be done in a documented series of FAQ's?  I am ready
to volunteer to test them.  I still have my working 232 Pentium with a
primary DOS system that I am using.  I do have a full time job--I run the
Central Coast Northern Dog Rescue.

My capabilities:  I can use Lynx, sort of, and I can, on good days, even fTP
a file successfully!  I am okay with email.  I know some BASIC, and some
Forth.  I can write aliases, macros, and batch files.  I can use an editor if
I have access to creating macros.  I normally use the WP editor, called ED,
with my own macro set.  I have severe enough carpel tunnel syndrome to find
Emacs not to be an option at this time--too many keystrokes--and if this is not
heresy, I find it to be a difficult (primitive) system not within my present 
grasp.  Remember, the newbie knows little of this language/culture, and has
hundreds of new items to recall/remember.  Trying to remember arcane
keystrokes to do the simplest tasks means that one will probably avoid the
application.  I wrote a full macro set for WP and the editor to avoid this
precise problem.  I run 4DOS, and have an 8K alias file for that reason, as
well.

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 9+ messages in thread