Problem installing Red Hat linux 7.2

Problem installing Red Hat linux 7.2

[Barbara J Wagreich]

HI:

i'm having a new PC custom built for me.  It already has DOS, Window s98,
and Windows 2000 installed on it.  It is a 2GHZ Pentium 4 machine using an
ABIT motherboard.  I just received this message from the person who is
building it for me:

I've run into a problem with Linux.  Linux does not appear to support the
IDE RAID controller, at least for booting.  The IDE RAID controller does
not
support CD-ROMs or ZIP drives.  The only way around this seems to be
moving
the hard drive to the main IDE controller in parallel with one of the
other
drives, but this is undesirable for performance reasons.  An alternative
would be to install a second hard drive just for Linux (it would still
result in reduced performance for that drive).

Any comments on this?  Is it possible to install Red Hat Linux 7.2 sothat
the mail IDE controller is not used?  Are there any other recommended
solutions?

this person feels it would be better to install linux on an older machine
by itself.  I don't really have room for the machine.  It is a 7-year old
machine and has the original Pentium chip with a speed of 100mhz.  The
current disk drive is a small 2GB SCSI disk and we would probably ahve to
get an IDE disk.  I was hoping to have all three operating systems ont he
same machine tos ave space.

I'd welcome any feedback you may have on this subject.

Thanks,
Barb

Re: Problem installing Red Hat linux 7.2

[John]

I presume that since you want performance you are talking about RAID0. RAID1 
gives you reliability, but sucks performance.

Support for your hardware is _much_ more likely to be available in more recent 
releases of Red Hat Linux.

I think you should try _at least_ Red Hat Linux 7.3; probably the latest beta 
of Red Hat Linux 8.0, (null) - yes, that is its name.

I note that the (null) beta has support for the doubletalk synthesiser.

If you tell us some detail about the hardware, someone might be able to give 
you better information.

You might also consider a separate drive on the primary IDE controller to boot 
from. Or even trying a system without the RAID to see whether the performance 
actually matters that much. In upgrading from a Pentium you may be 
underestimating the power of the new machine.


No new text from here;-)



On Wednesday 21 August 2002 15:38, Barbara J Wagreich wrote:
> HI:
> 
> i'm having a new PC custom built for me.  It already has DOS, Window s98,
> and Windows 2000 installed on it.  It is a 2GHZ Pentium 4 machine using an
> ABIT motherboard.  I just received this message from the person who is
> building it for me:
> 
> I've run into a problem with Linux.  Linux does not appear to support the
> IDE RAID controller, at least for booting.  The IDE RAID controller does
> not
> support CD-ROMs or ZIP drives.  The only way around this seems to be
> moving
> the hard drive to the main IDE controller in parallel with one of the
> other
> drives, but this is undesirable for performance reasons.  An alternative
> would be to install a second hard drive just for Linux (it would still
> result in reduced performance for that drive).
> 
> Any comments on this?  Is it possible to install Red Hat Linux 7.2 sothat
> the mail IDE controller is not used?  Are there any other recommended
> solutions?
> 
> this person feels it would be better to install linux on an older machine
> by itself.  I don't really have room for the machine.  It is a 7-year old
> machine and has the original Pentium chip with a speed of 100mhz.  The
> current disk drive is a small 2GB SCSI disk and we would probably ahve to
> get an IDE disk.  I was hoping to have all three operating systems ont he
> same machine tos ave space.
> 
> I'd welcome any feedback you may have on this subject.
> 
> Thanks,
> Barb
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> 

-- 


Cheers
John.

Please, no off-list mail. You will fall foul of my spam treatment.
Join the "Linux Support by Small Businesses" list at 
http://mail.computerdatasafe.com.au/mailman/listinfo/lssb

Re: Problem installing Red Hat linux 7.2

[L. C. Robinson]

On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Barbara J Wagreich wrote:

> i'm having a new PC custom built for me.  It already has DOS,
> Window s98, and Windows 2000 installed on it.  It is a 2GHZ
> Pentium 4 machine using an ABIT motherboard.

Wow.  Way overpowered for Linux, especially when used in text mode,
probably with no GUI.

> I just received this message from the person who is building it
> for me:
> 
> I've run into a problem with Linux.  Linux does not appear to
> support the IDE RAID controller, at least for booting.  The IDE

Refer him to the RAID tutorial in the Red Hat 6.2 and later
manuals, and have him grep the /var/log/dmesg file (log of boot
messages) for "RAID":

On my system:
grep -i RAID /var/log/dmesg
raid5: measuring checksumming speed
raid5: MMX detected, trying high-speed MMX checksum routines
autodetecting RAID arrays

> RAID controller does not support CD-ROMs or ZIP drives.  The
> only way around this seems to be moving the hard drive to the
> main IDE controller in parallel with one of the other drives,
> but this is undesirable for performance reasons.  An
> alternative would be to install a second hard drive just for
> Linux (it would still result in reduced performance for that
> drive).

Windoze (XP?) GUI thinking.  You will have more than ample power
for linux, even if he goes with this dubious claim.

So are you doing something that requires great hard drive
performance?  Like serving dynamic web pages from a database over
a T1 or better line?  Doesn't sound like it from the context.
Bet any difference wouldn't even be noticed.
 
> Any comments on this?  Is it possible to install Red Hat Linux 7.2
> sothat the mail IDE controller is not used?  Are there any other
> recommended solutions?

Has this person even tried to install linux on the RAID thing?
Linux has had RAID support for a long time -- but why would you
need it (just asking if you really need the hassle, when starting
out with linux)?  I'm guessing very few users here use it for
personal systems, but I may be wrong.
 
> this person feels it would be better to install linux on an
> older machine by itself.  I don't really have room for the
> machine.  It is a 7-year old machine and has the original
> Pentium chip with a speed of 100mhz.  The current disk drive is
> a small 2GB SCSI disk and we would probably ahve to get an IDE
> disk.  I was hoping to have all three operating systems ont he
> same machine tos ave space.

Sure.  You should be able to have it either way.  I don't do
RAID, but there are experienced sysadmins for largish networks on
this list that no doubt use it routinely.

Sorry if I sound irritated.  Some of us get sick of seeing
articles by supposed experts who claim linux can't to this or
that, when it has been doing them for years.  Your helper
probably doesn't deserve it -- not claiming linux expertise.

BTW, if you insist on installing the old RH7.2, you will still
need to download hundreds of megabytes of patches from the
updates directories, to keep your system secure on the internet.
The active open source style security auditing going on now is
adding new patches to the list regularly.  Check and compare the
volume in the updates directories for the two versions on the Red
Hat site: you may find it's just easier to go with the newer
version.  Running old versions is OK (I do it), as long as you
subscribe to the redhat-announce list and keep up to date on the
security patches, as they come out.

Would you like to know where to get RedHat (TM) "compatible" CDs
with all the patches currently added (Krud linux)?

LCR

-- 
L. C. Robinson
reply to no_spam+munged_lcr@onewest.net.invalid

People buy MicroShaft for compatibility, but get incompatibility and
instability instead.  This is award winning "innovation".  Find
out how MS holds your data hostage with "The *Lens*"; see
"CyberSnare" at http://www.netaction.org/msoft/cybersnare.html

Re: Problem installing Red Hat linux 7.2

[Janina Sajka]

If I were you, I'd seriously consider giving my business to some else.

1.)	Who chose the hardware that you're buying? Did this shop choose 
it? If so, and they new you wanted Linux, then they should choose another 
mother board. This is simply irresponsible. It's an attempt to get a few 
more dollars from you for no good reason. Devices which are known to work 
with Linux are well documented on the net. A professional shop should know 
how to pick appropriate hardware. If they don't know how, they're not 
worth the money you're spending with them. Give it to a competitor that 
does know how.

2.)	If they're installing RH 7.2 they are doing you another 
disservice. Red Hat is currently at 7.3 and has been since mid April. If 
they don't know that, and don't know how to deal with it, give your 
business to someone who does. Don't pay them to do what they don't know 
how to do.

3.)	I suspect you want Speakup and/or other accessibility support in 
your system. Is this shop aware of how to do this? At least one competitor 
of their's is, and there may be others.





On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Barbara J Wagreich wrote:

> HI:
> 
> i'm having a new PC custom built for me.  It already has DOS, Window s98,
> and Windows 2000 installed on it.  It is a 2GHZ Pentium 4 machine using an
> ABIT motherboard.  I just received this message from the person who is
> building it for me:
> 
> I've run into a problem with Linux.  Linux does not appear to support the
> IDE RAID controller, at least for booting.  The IDE RAID controller does
> not
> support CD-ROMs or ZIP drives.  The only way around this seems to be
> moving
> the hard drive to the main IDE controller in parallel with one of the
> other
> drives, but this is undesirable for performance reasons.  An alternative
> would be to install a second hard drive just for Linux (it would still
> result in reduced performance for that drive).
> 
> Any comments on this?  Is it possible to install Red Hat Linux 7.2 sothat
> the mail IDE controller is not used?  Are there any other recommended
> solutions?
> 
> this person feels it would be better to install linux on an older machine
> by itself.  I don't really have room for the machine.  It is a 7-year old
> machine and has the original Pentium chip with a speed of 100mhz.  The
> current disk drive is a small 2GB SCSI disk and we would probably ahve to
> get an IDE disk.  I was hoping to have all three operating systems ont he
> same machine tos ave space.
> 
> I'd welcome any feedback you may have on this subject.
> 
> Thanks,
> Barb
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: Problem installing Red Hat linux 7.2

[John J. Boyer]

Janina,
I know that Barb wants BRLTTY. Whoever is doing the installation should 
download it as soon as the installation is finished, read the 
installation documentation that comes with the download, and have it up 
quickly. That's the way I did it with my Linux.
John
On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Janina 
Sajka wrote:

> If I were you, I'd seriously consider giving my business to some else.
> 
> 1.)	Who chose the hardware that you're buying? Did this shop choose 
> it? If so, and they new you wanted Linux, then they should choose another 
> mother board. This is simply irresponsible. It's an attempt to get a few 
> more dollars from you for no good reason. Devices which are known to work 
> with Linux are well documented on the net. A professional shop should know 
> how to pick appropriate hardware. If they don't know how, they're not 
> worth the money you're spending with them. Give it to a competitor that 
> does know how.
> 
> 2.)	If they're installing RH 7.2 they are doing you another 
> disservice. Red Hat is currently at 7.3 and has been since mid April. If 
> they don't know that, and don't know how to deal with it, give your 
> business to someone who does. Don't pay them to do what they don't know 
> how to do.
> 
> 3.)	I suspect you want Speakup and/or other accessibility support in 
> your system. Is this shop aware of how to do this? At least one competitor 
> of their's is, and there may be others.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Barbara J Wagreich wrote:
> 
> > HI:
> > 
> > i'm having a new PC custom built for me.  It already has DOS, Window s98,
> > and Windows 2000 installed on it.  It is a 2GHZ Pentium 4 machine using an
> > ABIT motherboard.  I just received this message from the person who is
> > building it for me:
> > 
> > I've run into a problem with Linux.  Linux does not appear to support the
> > IDE RAID controller, at least for booting.  The IDE RAID controller does
> > not
> > support CD-ROMs or ZIP drives.  The only way around this seems to be
> > moving
> > the hard drive to the main IDE controller in parallel with one of the
> > other
> > drives, but this is undesirable for performance reasons.  An alternative
> > would be to install a second hard drive just for Linux (it would still
> > result in reduced performance for that drive).
> > 
> > Any comments on this?  Is it possible to install Red Hat Linux 7.2 sothat
> > the mail IDE controller is not used?  Are there any other recommended
> > solutions?
> > 
> > this person feels it would be better to install linux on an older machine
> > by itself.  I don't really have room for the machine.  It is a 7-year old
> > machine and has the original Pentium chip with a speed of 100mhz.  The
> > current disk drive is a small 2GB SCSI disk and we would probably ahve to
> > get an IDE disk.  I was hoping to have all three operating systems ont he
> > same machine tos ave space.
> > 
> > I'd welcome any feedback you may have on this subject.
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Barb
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blinux-list mailing list
> > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> > 
> 
> 

-- 
Computers to Help People, Inc.
http://www.chpi.org
825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703

Re: Problem installing Red Hat linux 7.2

[Janina Sajka]

John:

The real thrust of my point is that it looks like this shop she's picked 
doesn't know a damm thing about Linux. So, why should they get paid to 
install something they know nothing about? What will be the quality of 
that install, especially from a blind person's view?



On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, John J. Boyer wrote:

> Janina,
> I know that Barb wants BRLTTY. Whoever is doing the installation should 
> download it as soon as the installation is finished, read the 
> installation documentation that comes with the download, and have it up 
> quickly. That's the way I did it with my Linux.
> John
> On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Janina 
> Sajka wrote:
> 
> > If I were you, I'd seriously consider giving my business to some else.
> > 
> > 1.)	Who chose the hardware that you're buying? Did this shop choose 
> > it? If so, and they new you wanted Linux, then they should choose another 
> > mother board. This is simply irresponsible. It's an attempt to get a few 
> > more dollars from you for no good reason. Devices which are known to work 
> > with Linux are well documented on the net. A professional shop should know 
> > how to pick appropriate hardware. If they don't know how, they're not 
> > worth the money you're spending with them. Give it to a competitor that 
> > does know how.
> > 
> > 2.)	If they're installing RH 7.2 they are doing you another 
> > disservice. Red Hat is currently at 7.3 and has been since mid April. If 
> > they don't know that, and don't know how to deal with it, give your 
> > business to someone who does. Don't pay them to do what they don't know 
> > how to do.
> > 
> > 3.)	I suspect you want Speakup and/or other accessibility support in 
> > your system. Is this shop aware of how to do this? At least one competitor 
> > of their's is, and there may be others.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Barbara J Wagreich wrote:
> > 
> > > HI:
> > > 
> > > i'm having a new PC custom built for me.  It already has DOS, Window s98,
> > > and Windows 2000 installed on it.  It is a 2GHZ Pentium 4 machine using an
> > > ABIT motherboard.  I just received this message from the person who is
> > > building it for me:
> > > 
> > > I've run into a problem with Linux.  Linux does not appear to support the
> > > IDE RAID controller, at least for booting.  The IDE RAID controller does
> > > not
> > > support CD-ROMs or ZIP drives.  The only way around this seems to be
> > > moving
> > > the hard drive to the main IDE controller in parallel with one of the
> > > other
> > > drives, but this is undesirable for performance reasons.  An alternative
> > > would be to install a second hard drive just for Linux (it would still
> > > result in reduced performance for that drive).
> > > 
> > > Any comments on this?  Is it possible to install Red Hat Linux 7.2 sothat
> > > the mail IDE controller is not used?  Are there any other recommended
> > > solutions?
> > > 
> > > this person feels it would be better to install linux on an older machine
> > > by itself.  I don't really have room for the machine.  It is a 7-year old
> > > machine and has the original Pentium chip with a speed of 100mhz.  The
> > > current disk drive is a small 2GB SCSI disk and we would probably ahve to
> > > get an IDE disk.  I was hoping to have all three operating systems ont he
> > > same machine tos ave space.
> > > 
> > > I'd welcome any feedback you may have on this subject.
> > > 
> > > Thanks,
> > > Barb
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Blinux-list mailing list
> > > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: Problem installing Red Hat linux 7.2

[John J. Boyer]

Janina,
Right. I agree with your point. I'm just a big booster of braille.
John
On Wed, 
21 Aug 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> John:
> 
> The real thrust of my point is that it looks like this shop she's picked 
> doesn't know a damm thing about Linux. So, why should they get paid to 
> install something they know nothing about? What will be the quality of 
> that install, especially from a blind person's view?
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, John J. Boyer wrote:
> 
> > Janina,
> > I know that Barb wants BRLTTY. Whoever is doing the installation should 
> > download it as soon as the installation is finished, read the 
> > installation documentation that comes with the download, and have it up 
> > quickly. That's the way I did it with my Linux.
> > John
> > On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Janina 
> > Sajka wrote:
> > 
> > > If I were you, I'd seriously consider giving my business to some else.
> > > 
> > > 1.)	Who chose the hardware that you're buying? Did this shop choose 
> > > it? If so, and they new you wanted Linux, then they should choose another 
> > > mother board. This is simply irresponsible. It's an attempt to get a few 
> > > more dollars from you for no good reason. Devices which are known to work 
> > > with Linux are well documented on the net. A professional shop should know 
> > > how to pick appropriate hardware. If they don't know how, they're not 
> > > worth the money you're spending with them. Give it to a competitor that 
> > > does know how.
> > > 
> > > 2.)	If they're installing RH 7.2 they are doing you another 
> > > disservice. Red Hat is currently at 7.3 and has been since mid April. If 
> > > they don't know that, and don't know how to deal with it, give your 
> > > business to someone who does. Don't pay them to do what they don't know 
> > > how to do.
> > > 
> > > 3.)	I suspect you want Speakup and/or other accessibility support in 
> > > your system. Is this shop aware of how to do this? At least one competitor 
> > > of their's is, and there may be others.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Barbara J Wagreich wrote:
> > > 
> > > > HI:
> > > > 
> > > > i'm having a new PC custom built for me.  It already has DOS, Window s98,
> > > > and Windows 2000 installed on it.  It is a 2GHZ Pentium 4 machine using an
> > > > ABIT motherboard.  I just received this message from the person who is
> > > > building it for me:
> > > > 
> > > > I've run into a problem with Linux.  Linux does not appear to support the
> > > > IDE RAID controller, at least for booting.  The IDE RAID controller does
> > > > not
> > > > support CD-ROMs or ZIP drives.  The only way around this seems to be
> > > > moving
> > > > the hard drive to the main IDE controller in parallel with one of the
> > > > other
> > > > drives, but this is undesirable for performance reasons.  An alternative
> > > > would be to install a second hard drive just for Linux (it would still
> > > > result in reduced performance for that drive).
> > > > 
> > > > Any comments on this?  Is it possible to install Red Hat Linux 7.2 sothat
> > > > the mail IDE controller is not used?  Are there any other recommended
> > > > solutions?
> > > > 
> > > > this person feels it would be better to install linux on an older machine
> > > > by itself.  I don't really have room for the machine.  It is a 7-year old
> > > > machine and has the original Pentium chip with a speed of 100mhz.  The
> > > > current disk drive is a small 2GB SCSI disk and we would probably ahve to
> > > > get an IDE disk.  I was hoping to have all three operating systems ont he
> > > > same machine tos ave space.
> > > > 
> > > > I'd welcome any feedback you may have on this subject.
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Barb
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Blinux-list mailing list
> > > > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 

-- 
Computers to Help People, Inc.
http://www.chpi.org
825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703

Re: Problem installing Red Hat linux 7.2

[Barbara J Wagreich]

Let me explain.

1) I am deaf and blind and would be using brltty.

2)  I ordered the linux directly from Ree Hat around april 20 and they
said it was the latest.  I didn't know there were subsequent releases.
Sigh.

3) I don't know of a professional shop in the metropolitan boston area.  A
friend of a friend whom I trust is custom building the PC for me.  He did
say he has no experience with linux but would try.  sothis is a learning
experience for him.  I'm sure we can resolve the problems.  If anyone
knows anyone in the metropolitan Boston area who might be able to help,
please let me know.

Barb


On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> If I were you, I'd seriously consider giving my business to some else.
>
> 1.)	Who chose the hardware that you're buying? Did this shop choose
> it? If so, and they new you wanted Linux, then they should choose another
> mother board. This is simply irresponsible. It's an attempt to get a few
> more dollars from you for no good reason. Devices which are known to work
> with Linux are well documented on the net. A professional shop should know
> how to pick appropriate hardware. If they don't know how, they're not
> worth the money you're spending with them. Give it to a competitor that
> does know how.
>
> 2.)	If they're installing RH 7.2 they are doing you another
> disservice. Red Hat is currently at 7.3 and has been since mid April. If
> they don't know that, and don't know how to deal with it, give your
> business to someone who does. Don't pay them to do what they don't know
> how to do.
>
> 3.)	I suspect you want Speakup and/or other accessibility support in
> your system. Is this shop aware of how to do this? At least one competitor
> of their's is, and there may be others.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Barbara J Wagreich wrote:
>
> > HI:
> >
> > i'm having a new PC custom built for me.  It already has DOS, Window s98,
> > and Windows 2000 installed on it.  It is a 2GHZ Pentium 4 machine using an
> > ABIT motherboard.  I just received this message from the person who is
> > building it for me:
> >
> > I've run into a problem with Linux.  Linux does not appear to support the
> > IDE RAID controller, at least for booting.  The IDE RAID controller does
> > not
> > support CD-ROMs or ZIP drives.  The only way around this seems to be
> > moving
> > the hard drive to the main IDE controller in parallel with one of the
> > other
> > drives, but this is undesirable for performance reasons.  An alternative
> > would be to install a second hard drive just for Linux (it would still
> > result in reduced performance for that drive).
> >
> > Any comments on this?  Is it possible to install Red Hat Linux 7.2 sothat
> > the mail IDE controller is not used?  Are there any other recommended
> > solutions?
> >
> > this person feels it would be better to install linux on an older machine
> > by itself.  I don't really have room for the machine.  It is a 7-year old
> > machine and has the original Pentium chip with a speed of 100mhz.  The
> > current disk drive is a small 2GB SCSI disk and we would probably ahve to
> > get an IDE disk.  I was hoping to have all three operating systems ont he
> > same machine tos ave space.
> >
> > I'd welcome any feedback you may have on this subject.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Barb
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blinux-list mailing list
> > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> >
>
> --
>
> 				Janina Sajka, Director
> 				Technology Research and Development
> 				Governmental Relations Group
> 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
> Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
>
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
>

Re: Problem installing Red Hat linux 7.2

[Janina Sajka]

Me too, John, especially for younger folk. It's a little tougher with late 
literacy issues typically found in us adults.

On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, John J. Boyer wrote:

> Janina,
> Right. I agree with your point. I'm just a big booster of braille.
> John
> On Wed, 
> 21 Aug 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> 
> > John:
> > 
> > The real thrust of my point is that it looks like this shop she's picked 
> > doesn't know a damm thing about Linux. So, why should they get paid to 
> > install something they know nothing about? What will be the quality of 
> > that install, especially from a blind person's view?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, John J. Boyer wrote:
> > 
> > > Janina,
> > > I know that Barb wants BRLTTY. Whoever is doing the installation should 
> > > download it as soon as the installation is finished, read the 
> > > installation documentation that comes with the download, and have it up 
> > > quickly. That's the way I did it with my Linux.
> > > John
> > > On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Janina 
> > > Sajka wrote:
> > > 
> > > > If I were you, I'd seriously consider giving my business to some else.
> > > > 
> > > > 1.)	Who chose the hardware that you're buying? Did this shop choose 
> > > > it? If so, and they new you wanted Linux, then they should choose another 
> > > > mother board. This is simply irresponsible. It's an attempt to get a few 
> > > > more dollars from you for no good reason. Devices which are known to work 
> > > > with Linux are well documented on the net. A professional shop should know 
> > > > how to pick appropriate hardware. If they don't know how, they're not 
> > > > worth the money you're spending with them. Give it to a competitor that 
> > > > does know how.
> > > > 
> > > > 2.)	If they're installing RH 7.2 they are doing you another 
> > > > disservice. Red Hat is currently at 7.3 and has been since mid April. If 
> > > > they don't know that, and don't know how to deal with it, give your 
> > > > business to someone who does. Don't pay them to do what they don't know 
> > > > how to do.
> > > > 
> > > > 3.)	I suspect you want Speakup and/or other accessibility support in 
> > > > your system. Is this shop aware of how to do this? At least one competitor 
> > > > of their's is, and there may be others.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Barbara J Wagreich wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > HI:
> > > > > 
> > > > > i'm having a new PC custom built for me.  It already has DOS, Window s98,
> > > > > and Windows 2000 installed on it.  It is a 2GHZ Pentium 4 machine using an
> > > > > ABIT motherboard.  I just received this message from the person who is
> > > > > building it for me:
> > > > > 
> > > > > I've run into a problem with Linux.  Linux does not appear to support the
> > > > > IDE RAID controller, at least for booting.  The IDE RAID controller does
> > > > > not
> > > > > support CD-ROMs or ZIP drives.  The only way around this seems to be
> > > > > moving
> > > > > the hard drive to the main IDE controller in parallel with one of the
> > > > > other
> > > > > drives, but this is undesirable for performance reasons.  An alternative
> > > > > would be to install a second hard drive just for Linux (it would still
> > > > > result in reduced performance for that drive).
> > > > > 
> > > > > Any comments on this?  Is it possible to install Red Hat Linux 7.2 sothat
> > > > > the mail IDE controller is not used?  Are there any other recommended
> > > > > solutions?
> > > > > 
> > > > > this person feels it would be better to install linux on an older machine
> > > > > by itself.  I don't really have room for the machine.  It is a 7-year old
> > > > > machine and has the original Pentium chip with a speed of 100mhz.  The
> > > > > current disk drive is a small 2GB SCSI disk and we would probably ahve to
> > > > > get an IDE disk.  I was hoping to have all three operating systems ont he
> > > > > same machine tos ave space.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I'd welcome any feedback you may have on this subject.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Barb
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Blinux-list mailing list
> > > > > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > > > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: Problem installing Red Hat linux 7.2

[Rafael Skodlar,,,]

Barbara,

I'll try to answer to your original question and some comments that
followed in the thread.

It's very rarely to have problems with installing Linux on modern
machines these days. I wonder why you decided to use RAID on your
system? Hardware based RAID should not be a problem for Linux. We use
ATA and SCSI RAID at work without problems. However, the setup was
giving me a hard time with earlier versions of Redhat, 7.0, and 7.1.

It's my opinion that unless you are running a server on the network it
makes little sense to run RAID on a multiboot machine. I would rather
invest into good backup device like tape drive or DVD writer than run
RAID configuration in home box. I doubt that performance will be an
issue in what I suggest. RAID feature on your high performance
motherboard is better suitable for critical servers in corporate
environment than home use IMO. It's possible to tweak disk drive
parameters in kernel for faster data transfer which will be better than
under RAID.

Since you don't have requirements for high quality graphics, disk drives
will be able to put up with most programs you use unless you run Oracle
database with thousands of requests per second from the network or such
for example.

My suggestion is to setup disk drives in non RAID configuration and
install Linux on separate disk drive. That way you are less likely to
loose everything in case one OS takes down everything due to virus,
hardware problems, or security reasons. 

I also see no problem in using Redhat 7.2. It's the first in the version
7 series worth using. Some people need to understand that you cannot
always go with the latest distribution for all kinds of reasons. We use
older versions many times in order to support software for customers who
run older versions as well. Some commercial software doesn't necessarily
work with the latest distribution due to dependencies issues so you have
to use earlier version. I believe it's OK to install RH7.2 and update it
with the latest patches.

Linux is well supported in communities and industry. Since this is going
to be a system for home use I suggest you ask your friend to get in
touch with local Linux Users Group in your area. Many Linux groups run
monthly installfests where people bring their machines to have Linux
installed. Friendly Linux enthusiasts will help you out with it.

Quick search for "Boston LUG" lead me to http://www.blu.org They claim
to have many meetings at M.I.T. If that's not close enough to you there
might be another group in the area. I'm from the West coast and not
familiar with Boston Linux scene.

And put the old PC to good use. 100 MHz Pentium is fast for many
things under Linux.

Good luck.

-- 
Rafael


On Wed, Aug 21, 2002 at 11:36:50AM -0400, Barbara J Wagreich wrote:
> Let me explain.
> 
> 1) I am deaf and blind and would be using brltty.
> 
> 2)  I ordered the linux directly from Ree Hat around april 20 and they
> said it was the latest.  I didn't know there were subsequent releases.
> Sigh.
> 
> 3) I don't know of a professional shop in the metropolitan boston area.  A
> friend of a friend whom I trust is custom building the PC for me.  He did
> say he has no experience with linux but would try.  sothis is a learning
> experience for him.  I'm sure we can resolve the problems.  If anyone
> knows anyone in the metropolitan Boston area who might be able to help,
> please let me know.
> 
> Barb
..................
> 
> > > HI:
> > >
> > > i'm having a new PC custom built for me.  It already has DOS, Window s98,
> > > and Windows 2000 installed on it.  It is a 2GHZ Pentium 4 machine using an
> > > ABIT motherboard.  I just received this message from the person who is
> > > building it for me:
> > >
> > > I've run into a problem with Linux.  Linux does not appear to support the
> > > IDE RAID controller, at least for booting.  The IDE RAID controller does
> > > not
> > > support CD-ROMs or ZIP drives.  The only way around this seems to be
> > > moving
> > > the hard drive to the main IDE controller in parallel with one of the
> > > other
> > > drives, but this is undesirable for performance reasons.  An alternative
> > > would be to install a second hard drive just for Linux (it would still
> > > result in reduced performance for that drive).
> > >
> > > Any comments on this?  Is it possible to install Red Hat Linux 7.2 sothat
> > > the mail IDE controller is not used?  Are there any other recommended
> > > solutions?
> > >
> > > this person feels it would be better to install linux on an older machine
> > > by itself.  I don't really have room for the machine.  It is a 7-year old
> > > machine and has the original Pentium chip with a speed of 100mhz.  The
> > > current disk drive is a small 2GB SCSI disk and we would probably ahve to
> > > get an IDE disk.  I was hoping to have all three operating systems ont he
> > > same machine tos ave space.
> > >
> > > I'd welcome any feedback you may have on this subject.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Barb
> > >

Re: Problem installing Red Hat linux 7.2

[John]

On Wednesday 21 August 2002 18:50, L. C. Robinson wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Barbara J Wagreich wrote:

> 
> 
> Wow.  Way overpowered for Linux, especially when used in text mode,
> probably with no GUI.

That is my first thought too, but I don't know what Barbara wants to do.



-- 


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John.

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Re: Problem installing Red Hat linux 7.2

[John]

On Wednesday 21 August 2002 23:36, Barbara J Wagreich wrote:
> 3) I don't know of a professional shop in the metropolitan boston area.  A

Barb
I've send a note to my list below. I've no idea whether there's anyone on the 
list who can help, but you should find out pretty soon.

Don't be too surprised to get email about it from someone you've not heard of.

I'm pretty confident though that the computer is somewhat overpowered.

As for Red Hat, there's a new release about every six months. 7.3 CD images 
were created April 30, so 7.2 would have been the latest then.


-- 


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Re: Problem installing Red Hat linux 7.2

[Barbara J Wagreich]

John:

the reason for the 2GHZ is because I'm also running windows 2000 and
windows 98 on that PC as wellas linux.

Does that help?

Barb

On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, John wrote:

> On Wednesday 21 August 2002 23:36, Barbara J Wagreich wrote:
> > 3) I don't know of a professional shop in the metropolitan boston area.  A
>
> Barb
> I've send a note to my list below. I've no idea whether there's anyone on the
> list who can help, but you should find out pretty soon.
>
> Don't be too surprised to get email about it from someone you've not heard of.
>
> I'm pretty confident though that the computer is somewhat overpowered.
>
> As for Red Hat, there's a new release about every six months. 7.3 CD images
> were created April 30, so 7.2 would have been the latest then.
>
>
> --
>
>
> Cheers
> John.
>
> Please, no off-list mail. You will fall foul of my spam treatment.
> Join the "Linux Support by Small Businesses" list at
> http://mail.computerdatasafe.com.au/mailman/listinfo/lssb
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>

Re: Problem installing Red Hat linux 7.2

[L. C. Robinson]

On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Rafael Skodlar,,, wrote:

> Quick search for "Boston LUG" lead me to http://www.blu.org
> ....

Add to this:
http://www.wlug.org/

which has additional links to other LUGs in your area.  I found
this through one of the worldwide LUG lists linked off linux.com
(see the their excellent explanation of what LUGs are, and why
you want to find one, on their "Start Here" page for "New to
Linux", which also lists many other fine resources).

LCR

-- 
L. C. Robinson
reply to no_spam+munged_lcr@onewest.net.invalid

Re: Problem installing Red Hat linux 7.2

[Janina Sajka]

Hi, Barbara:

OK, I do understand, and I will be glad to help--as will others on the 
list. I suggest you have this person contact me directly and/or join the 
blinux list.

Meanwhile, they should download more recent iso images. I would suggest 
those on the Speakup site (even though you won't be needing Speakup) only 
because they are frequently updated with the latest drivers. But, you 
could also download from a Red Hat mirror and use the built in up2date 
command after installation.

Some of what I will counsel has to do with partitioning decisions. I would 
highly recommend a kind of partitioning scheme that facilitates replacing 
the OS installation of Linux without losing any of your personal data. 
This can be done, but one needs to know how to make choices that aren't 
eninical to this goal. You will want to upgrade sometime this winter, 
because the next Red Hat release will include significant accessibility 
enhancements that you will want to have. Making smart choices today will 
make that upgrade this winter relatively painless. Making poorer choices 
today would mean an upgrade of the kind I'm speaking of quite troublesome. 
Clearly, I'd expect you to prefer the former.


On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Barbara J Wagreich wrote:

> Let me explain.
> 
> 1) I am deaf and blind and would be using brltty.
> 
> 2)  I ordered the linux directly from Ree Hat around april 20 and they
> said it was the latest.  I didn't know there were subsequent releases.
> Sigh.
> 
> 3) I don't know of a professional shop in the metropolitan boston area.  A
> friend of a friend whom I trust is custom building the PC for me.  He did
> say he has no experience with linux but would try.  sothis is a learning
> experience for him.  I'm sure we can resolve the problems.  If anyone
> knows anyone in the metropolitan Boston area who might be able to help,
> please let me know.
> 
> Barb
> 
> 
> On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> 
> > If I were you, I'd seriously consider giving my business to some else.
> >
> > 1.)	Who chose the hardware that you're buying? Did this shop choose
> > it? If so, and they new you wanted Linux, then they should choose another
> > mother board. This is simply irresponsible. It's an attempt to get a few
> > more dollars from you for no good reason. Devices which are known to work
> > with Linux are well documented on the net. A professional shop should know
> > how to pick appropriate hardware. If they don't know how, they're not
> > worth the money you're spending with them. Give it to a competitor that
> > does know how.
> >
> > 2.)	If they're installing RH 7.2 they are doing you another
> > disservice. Red Hat is currently at 7.3 and has been since mid April. If
> > they don't know that, and don't know how to deal with it, give your
> > business to someone who does. Don't pay them to do what they don't know
> > how to do.
> >
> > 3.)	I suspect you want Speakup and/or other accessibility support in
> > your system. Is this shop aware of how to do this? At least one competitor
> > of their's is, and there may be others.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Barbara J Wagreich wrote:
> >
> > > HI:
> > >
> > > i'm having a new PC custom built for me.  It already has DOS, Window s98,
> > > and Windows 2000 installed on it.  It is a 2GHZ Pentium 4 machine using an
> > > ABIT motherboard.  I just received this message from the person who is
> > > building it for me:
> > >
> > > I've run into a problem with Linux.  Linux does not appear to support the
> > > IDE RAID controller, at least for booting.  The IDE RAID controller does
> > > not
> > > support CD-ROMs or ZIP drives.  The only way around this seems to be
> > > moving
> > > the hard drive to the main IDE controller in parallel with one of the
> > > other
> > > drives, but this is undesirable for performance reasons.  An alternative
> > > would be to install a second hard drive just for Linux (it would still
> > > result in reduced performance for that drive).
> > >
> > > Any comments on this?  Is it possible to install Red Hat Linux 7.2 sothat
> > > the mail IDE controller is not used?  Are there any other recommended
> > > solutions?
> > >
> > > this person feels it would be better to install linux on an older machine
> > > by itself.  I don't really have room for the machine.  It is a 7-year old
> > > machine and has the original Pentium chip with a speed of 100mhz.  The
> > > current disk drive is a small 2GB SCSI disk and we would probably ahve to
> > > get an IDE disk.  I was hoping to have all three operating systems ont he
> > > same machine tos ave space.
> > >
> > > I'd welcome any feedback you may have on this subject.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Barb
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Blinux-list mailing list
> > > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> > >
> >
> > --
> >
> > 				Janina Sajka, Director
> > 				Technology Research and Development
> > 				Governmental Relations Group
> > 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> > Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> >
> > Chair, Accessibility SIG
> > Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> > http://www.openebook.org
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: Problem installing Red Hat linux 7.2

[John]

On Thursday 22 August 2002 14:07, Barbara J Wagreich wrote:
> John:
> 
> 
> the reason for the 2GHZ is because I'm also running windows 2000 and
> windows 98 on that PC as wellas linux.

But not at once. I'd be surprised if a basic Celeron or Duron wouldn't do all 
you want, unless you're going to surprise us all doing some CAD work or 
similar.

Or serious database or other software development. 

If you plan to install Linux and vmware to run Windows 98 and Windows 2000 all 
at once, then you need something a bit more serious. Even then, though, your 
basic Celeron or Duron plus more RAM would still do pretty well.

Even so, it's not the operating systems so much as what you run on them that 
determines what you need.

If all you want is text input and text output to do email and some web 
browsing and similar then just about any of the computers I have in my office 
(mostly Pentium IIs) will do what you want.

You've told us you're upgrading from a Pentium 100, but you didn't say why.

If I build a current Linux kernel on a Pentium 100, it will probably run 
overnight. If I run it on my Athlon (1.4) it will most likely take under one 
hour. Current Durons and Celerons are not much slower than my Athlon.



-- 


Cheers
John.

Please, no off-list mail. You will fall foul of my spam treatment.
Join the "Linux Support by Small Businesses" list at 
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Re: Problem installing Red Hat linux 7.2

[Mike Gorse]

On Fri, 23 Aug 2002, John wrote:

> If I build a current Linux kernel on a Pentium 100, it will probably run
> overnight. If I run it on my Athlon (1.4) it will most likely take under one
> hour. Current Durons and Celerons are not much slower than my Athlon.
>
More like 5 minutes actually; I have a 1333mhz Athlon (running at 112x12
because my motherboard and/or memory can't seem to handle the correct
settings), and it took me just under 5 minutes to compile a kernel with
the features that I use.

Re: Problem installing Red Hat linux 7.2

[John]

On Friday 23 August 2002 12:07, Mike Gorse wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Aug 2002, John wrote:
> 
> > If I build a current Linux kernel on a Pentium 100, it will probably run
> > overnight. If I run it on my Athlon (1.4) it will most likely take under 
one
> > hour. Current Durons and Celerons are not much slower than my Athlon.
> >
> More like 5 minutes actually; I have a 1333mhz Athlon (running at 112x12
> because my motherboard and/or memory can't seem to handle the correct
> settings), and it took me just under 5 minutes to compile a kernel with
> the features that I use.

I'm sure that's true, but the only kernels I've built recently have been 
fairly close to Red Hat standard - I turn off APM, turn on ACPI and a couple 
of other things.

The configurations I refer to are comparable to each other and so a good 
approximation (within the limits of my memory) of the relative processing 
power.

I should mention too that your disk I/O with the Pentium would probably be in 
the range of .8 to 2 megabytes per second whereas Durons, Athlons, recent 
Pentium IIIs & Celerons and Pentium IVs should manage over 30.

Don't take too much notice of 66, 100 and 133 Mbytes/second claims, those are 
only for small amounts of data and do not include reading it off the disk 
surface.


-- 


Cheers
John.

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Join the "Linux Support by Small Businesses" list at 
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