Re: bookshare inaccessible?

Re: bookshare inaccessible?

[Cheryl Homiak]

Janina just informed me bookshare doesn't have accessible software for
linux yet.
Sorry, from the thread I read I thought somebody had resolved it.
I think that's really rotten of them to set it up so it's inaccessible to linux
and then not even make that clear to people while they are giving their big
sales plug!
It's like if you are blind and a non-windows user, you don't even
exist!
Nothing at bookshare that says "accessible only to Windows users"--at least not
that I found;  just
trumpetting about their wonderful new service that i could have thrown $75 down
the drain for.!
Fine, if it's not accessible, they could at least state that clearly. They
certainly made the demo page accessible; very misleading!

RE: bookshare inaccessible?

[Joel Zimba]

who ever said running linux didn't have a downside.

besides, if linux is so adaptable and wonderful, how come it can't manage to
do this?  what is it about the sitewhich won't work in Linux?

---

Of course if it were my website, it woulden't be an issue, and it's also
worth noting you can get to the files on the nls website with linux ust fine
(at least last time I tried)
I can't see how security has to be that different.


Of course the irony isn't lost on me (accessibility project being
inaccessible)  but you really should expect this being a linux user.


btw, has anyone tried the libraries for bringing up guis in text mode?  the
tag line on slashdot was about
Conquorer in text-mode.

</stream of consiousness>

J

-----Original Message-----
From: blinux-list-admin@redhat.com
[mailto:blinux-list-admin@redhat.com]On Behalf Of Cheryl Homiak
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 11:23 AM
To: speakup
Cc: blinux-list@redhat.com
Subject: Re: bookshare inaccessible?


Janina just informed me bookshare doesn't have accessible software for
linux yet.
Sorry, from the thread I read I thought somebody had resolved it.
I think that's really rotten of them to set it up so it's inaccessible to
linux
and then not even make that clear to people while they are giving their big
sales plug!
It's like if you are blind and a non-windows user, you don't even
exist!
Nothing at bookshare that says "accessible only to Windows users"--at least
not
that I found;  just
trumpetting about their wonderful new service that i could have thrown $75
down
the drain for.!
Fine, if it's not accessible, they could at least state that clearly. They
certainly made the demo page accessible; very misleading!



_______________________________________________
Blinux-list mailing list
Blinux-list@redhat.com
https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list

Re: bookshare inaccessible?

[David Poehlman]

I agree.  write to them and add your voice.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cheryl Homiak" <chomiak@chartermi.net>
To: "speakup" <speakup@braille.uwo.ca>
Cc: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: bookshare inaccessible?


Janina just informed me bookshare doesn't have accessible software for
linux yet.
Sorry, from the thread I read I thought somebody had resolved it.
I think that's really rotten of them to set it up so it's inaccessible
to linux
and then not even make that clear to people while they are giving their
big
sales plug!
It's like if you are blind and a non-windows user, you don't even
exist!
Nothing at bookshare that says "accessible only to Windows users"--at
least not
that I found;  just
trumpetting about their wonderful new service that i could have thrown
$75 down
the drain for.!
Fine, if it's not accessible, they could at least state that clearly.
They
certainly made the demo page accessible; very misleading!



_______________________________________________
Blinux-list mailing list
Blinux-list@redhat.com
https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list

RE: bookshare inaccessible?

[Joel Zimba]

only that it's the software I'm chosing to use (lynx/ssl) wth whatever
limitations it has...

I'd bet there actually is more mainstream software on linux and on macs and
on os/2 for that matter which would work.

I'm not denying the site should fix it, but admitting to being painted into
a corner by the software you elect to run ... which I am doing incidentally,
is a virtue.

after looking through the site, I suspect strongly Netscape for linux would
work just fine ... it's  not a linux issue.
and it's not windows either really.  there's probably a browser for windows
which won't work too.. like lynx for windows.


Ultimately, they're in the business to make money, and I would think every
$75 would help.  I seriously doubt anyone at bookshare is going tobe
unwilling to help.  it's complicated to explain exacty what your tiny niche
requires...
think of someone with all kinds of alergies and food reactions, also
choosing a self-imposed diet of foods starting with the  letter Q.  and a
waiter scratching his head in bewilderment over why they sat down at the
table.

so...? what part of that don't you understand *smirk*

J


-----Original Message-----
From: blinux-list-admin@redhat.com
[mailto:blinux-list-admin@redhat.com]On Behalf Of Janina Sajka
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 2:47 PM
To: blinux-list@redhat.com
Subject: RE: bookshare inaccessible?


Back off, Joe. Windows wouldn't be able to work with Book Share either, if
it wasn't for the fact that the Book Share
people saw to it that software was written to support access. So, it's
nothing intrinsic to linux, or any OS. It's a
closed system. That requires suppporting software on each and every OS
that's going to be supported.

Now, is there some part of this you don't understand? Or have I made this
clear?

On Sun, 14 Apr 2002, Joel Zimba wrote:

> who ever said running linux didn't have a downside.
>
> besides, if linux is so adaptable and wonderful, how come it can't manage
to
> do this?  what is it about the sitewhich won't work in Linux?
>
> ---
>
> Of course if it were my website, it woulden't be an issue, and it's also
> worth noting you can get to the files on the nls website with linux ust
fine
> (at least last time I tried)
> I can't see how security has to be that different.
>
>
> Of course the irony isn't lost on me (accessibility project being
> inaccessible)  but you really should expect this being a linux user.
>
>
> btw, has anyone tried the libraries for bringing up guis in text mode?
the
> tag line on slashdot was about
> Conquorer in text-mode.
>
> </stream of consiousness>
>
> J
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blinux-list-admin@redhat.com
> [mailto:blinux-list-admin@redhat.com]On Behalf Of Cheryl Homiak
> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 11:23 AM
> To: speakup
> Cc: blinux-list@redhat.com
> Subject: Re: bookshare inaccessible?
>
>
> Janina just informed me bookshare doesn't have accessible software for
> linux yet.
> Sorry, from the thread I read I thought somebody had resolved it.
> I think that's really rotten of them to set it up so it's inaccessible to
> linux
> and then not even make that clear to people while they are giving their
big
> sales plug!
> It's like if you are blind and a non-windows user, you don't even
> exist!
> Nothing at bookshare that says "accessible only to Windows users"--at
least
> not
> that I found;  just
> trumpetting about their wonderful new service that i could have thrown $75
> down
> the drain for.!
> Fine, if it's not accessible, they could at least state that clearly. They
> certainly made the demo page accessible; very misleading!
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>

--

				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org



_______________________________________________
Blinux-list mailing list
Blinux-list@redhat.com
https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list

Re: bookshare inaccessible?

[Janina Sajka]

Cheryl:

You should complain strongly about this fact. They shouldn't be assuming everyone is using Windows, and that's what's
going on.

On Sun, 14 Apr 2002, Cheryl Homiak wrote:

> Janina just informed me bookshare doesn't have accessible software for
> linux yet.
> Sorry, from the thread I read I thought somebody had resolved it.
> I think that's really rotten of them to set it up so it's inaccessible to linux
> and then not even make that clear to people while they are giving their big
> sales plug!
> It's like if you are blind and a non-windows user, you don't even
> exist!
> Nothing at bookshare that says "accessible only to Windows users"--at least not
> that I found;  just
> trumpetting about their wonderful new service that i could have thrown $75 down
> the drain for.!
> Fine, if it's not accessible, they could at least state that clearly. They
> certainly made the demo page accessible; very misleading!
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

RE: bookshare inaccessible?

[Janina Sajka]

Back off, Joe. Windows wouldn't be able to work with Book Share either, if it wasn't for the fact that the Book Share
people saw to it that software was written to support access. So, it's nothing intrinsic to linux, or any OS. It's a
closed system. That requires suppporting software on each and every OS that's going to be supported.

Now, is there some part of this you don't understand? Or have I made this clear?

On Sun, 14 Apr 2002, Joel Zimba wrote:

> who ever said running linux didn't have a downside.
> 
> besides, if linux is so adaptable and wonderful, how come it can't manage to
> do this?  what is it about the sitewhich won't work in Linux?
> 
> ---
> 
> Of course if it were my website, it woulden't be an issue, and it's also
> worth noting you can get to the files on the nls website with linux ust fine
> (at least last time I tried)
> I can't see how security has to be that different.
> 
> 
> Of course the irony isn't lost on me (accessibility project being
> inaccessible)  but you really should expect this being a linux user.
> 
> 
> btw, has anyone tried the libraries for bringing up guis in text mode?  the
> tag line on slashdot was about
> Conquorer in text-mode.
> 
> </stream of consiousness>
> 
> J
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blinux-list-admin@redhat.com
> [mailto:blinux-list-admin@redhat.com]On Behalf Of Cheryl Homiak
> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 11:23 AM
> To: speakup
> Cc: blinux-list@redhat.com
> Subject: Re: bookshare inaccessible?
> 
> 
> Janina just informed me bookshare doesn't have accessible software for
> linux yet.
> Sorry, from the thread I read I thought somebody had resolved it.
> I think that's really rotten of them to set it up so it's inaccessible to
> linux
> and then not even make that clear to people while they are giving their big
> sales plug!
> It's like if you are blind and a non-windows user, you don't even
> exist!
> Nothing at bookshare that says "accessible only to Windows users"--at least
> not
> that I found;  just
> trumpetting about their wonderful new service that i could have thrown $75
> down
> the drain for.!
> Fine, if it's not accessible, they could at least state that clearly. They
> certainly made the demo page accessible; very misleading!
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

RE: bookshare inaccessible?

[Janina Sajka]

If you're right, and I'm beginning to suspect the analysis you present below may indeed be correct, they probably need
to do a WAI check on themselves. This is not at all good anywhere, but especially from sites intended expressly for
people who are blind or otherwwise print disabled.


On Sun, 14 Apr 2002, Joel Zimba wrote:

> only that it's the software I'm chosing to use (lynx/ssl) wth whatever
> limitations it has...
> 
> I'd bet there actually is more mainstream software on linux and on macs and
> on os/2 for that matter which would work.
> 
> I'm not denying the site should fix it, but admitting to being painted into
> a corner by the software you elect to run ... which I am doing incidentally,
> is a virtue.
> 
> after looking through the site, I suspect strongly Netscape for linux would
> work just fine ... it's  not a linux issue.
> and it's not windows either really.  there's probably a browser for windows
> which won't work too.. like lynx for windows.
> 
> 
> Ultimately, they're in the business to make money, and I would think every
> $75 would help.  I seriously doubt anyone at bookshare is going tobe
> unwilling to help.  it's complicated to explain exacty what your tiny niche
> requires...
> think of someone with all kinds of alergies and food reactions, also
> choosing a self-imposed diet of foods starting with the  letter Q.  and a
> waiter scratching his head in bewilderment over why they sat down at the
> table.
> 
> so...? what part of that don't you understand *smirk*
> 
> J
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blinux-list-admin@redhat.com
> [mailto:blinux-list-admin@redhat.com]On Behalf Of Janina Sajka
> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 2:47 PM
> To: blinux-list@redhat.com
> Subject: RE: bookshare inaccessible?
> 
> 
> Back off, Joe. Windows wouldn't be able to work with Book Share either, if
> it wasn't for the fact that the Book Share
> people saw to it that software was written to support access. So, it's
> nothing intrinsic to linux, or any OS. It's a
> closed system. That requires suppporting software on each and every OS
> that's going to be supported.
> 
> Now, is there some part of this you don't understand? Or have I made this
> clear?
> 
> On Sun, 14 Apr 2002, Joel Zimba wrote:
> 
> > who ever said running linux didn't have a downside.
> >
> > besides, if linux is so adaptable and wonderful, how come it can't manage
> to
> > do this?  what is it about the sitewhich won't work in Linux?
> >
> > ---
> >
> > Of course if it were my website, it woulden't be an issue, and it's also
> > worth noting you can get to the files on the nls website with linux ust
> fine
> > (at least last time I tried)
> > I can't see how security has to be that different.
> >
> >
> > Of course the irony isn't lost on me (accessibility project being
> > inaccessible)  but you really should expect this being a linux user.
> >
> >
> > btw, has anyone tried the libraries for bringing up guis in text mode?
> the
> > tag line on slashdot was about
> > Conquorer in text-mode.
> >
> > </stream of consiousness>
> >
> > J
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: blinux-list-admin@redhat.com
> > [mailto:blinux-list-admin@redhat.com]On Behalf Of Cheryl Homiak
> > Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 11:23 AM
> > To: speakup
> > Cc: blinux-list@redhat.com
> > Subject: Re: bookshare inaccessible?
> >
> >
> > Janina just informed me bookshare doesn't have accessible software for
> > linux yet.
> > Sorry, from the thread I read I thought somebody had resolved it.
> > I think that's really rotten of them to set it up so it's inaccessible to
> > linux
> > and then not even make that clear to people while they are giving their
> big
> > sales plug!
> > It's like if you are blind and a non-windows user, you don't even
> > exist!
> > Nothing at bookshare that says "accessible only to Windows users"--at
> least
> > not
> > that I found;  just
> > trumpetting about their wonderful new service that i could have thrown $75
> > down
> > the drain for.!
> > Fine, if it's not accessible, they could at least state that clearly. They
> > certainly made the demo page accessible; very misleading!
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blinux-list mailing list
> > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blinux-list mailing list
> > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> >
> 
> --
> 
> 				Janina Sajka, Director
> 				Technology Research and Development
> 				Governmental Relations Group
> 				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> 
> Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175
> 
> Chair, Accessibility SIG
> Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
> http://www.openebook.org
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: bookshare inaccessible?

[Cheryl Homiak]

Hi Janina an all.
I am complaining strongly, and will do so again if I don't get a response to my
statement that I do have SSL and their site is not accessible.

Re: bookshare inaccessible?

[John J. Boyer]

Cheryl,
Bookshare.org is run by Benetech, which is owned by Freedom Scientific.
>From my experience with the  latter company I'm not surprised that
bookshare.org is inaccessible. They have no sensitivity to their customers
needs. They don't even run their business properly.
John


-- 
Computers to Help People, Inc.
http://www.chpi.org
825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703

Re: bookshare inaccessible?

[Janina Sajka]

John:

You're wrong. Benetech is not owned by Freedom Scientific. Where ever did you get such an idea into your head?

Benetech is a 501(c)3 non profit in the U.S. BookShare is one of several Benetech projects.

Perhaps here's what has you confused. Benetech was created when Arkenstone sold OpenBook to Freedom Scientific. Since
Arkenstone was also a 501(c)3, no money from that sale could go to an inidividual, as indeed it did not. Rather, the
President of Arkenstone, Jim Fruchterman, used the money to start Benetech, which he is also President of.

But it is certainly not "owned" by anyone.

On Sun, 14 Apr 2002, John J. Boyer wrote:

> Cheryl,
> Bookshare.org is run by Benetech, which is owned by Freedom Scientific.
> >From my experience with the  latter company I'm not surprised that
> bookshare.org is inaccessible. They have no sensitivity to their customers
> needs. They don't even run their business properly.
> John
> 
> 
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

RE: bookshare inaccessible?

[John J. Boyer]

Janina,
So why isn't the public domain part of  bookshare accessible to anyone
using a text browser. There are no copyright problems with that.
John
On Sun, 14
Apr 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> Back off, Joe. Windows wouldn't be able to work with Book Share either, if it wasn't for the fact that the Book Share
> people saw to it that software was written to support access. So, it's nothing intrinsic to linux, or any OS. It's a
> closed system. That requires suppporting software on each and every OS that's going to be supported.
>
> Now, is there some part of this you don't understand? Or have I made this clear?
>
> On Sun, 14 Apr 2002, Joel Zimba wrote:
>
> > who ever said running linux didn't have a downside.
> >
> > besides, if linux is so adaptable and wonderful, how come it can't manage to
> > do this?  what is it about the sitewhich won't work in Linux?
> >
> > ---
> >
> > Of course if it were my website, it woulden't be an issue, and it's also
> > worth noting you can get to the files on the nls website with linux ust fine
> > (at least last time I tried)
> > I can't see how security has to be that different.
> >
> >
> > Of course the irony isn't lost on me (accessibility project being
> > inaccessible)  but you really should expect this being a linux user.
> >
> >
> > btw, has anyone tried the libraries for bringing up guis in text mode?  the
> > tag line on slashdot was about
> > Conquorer in text-mode.
> >
> > </stream of consiousness>
> >
> > J
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: blinux-list-admin@redhat.com
> > [mailto:blinux-list-admin@redhat.com]On Behalf Of Cheryl Homiak
> > Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 11:23 AM
> > To: speakup
> > Cc: blinux-list@redhat.com
> > Subject: Re: bookshare inaccessible?
> >
> >
> > Janina just informed me bookshare doesn't have accessible software for
> > linux yet.
> > Sorry, from the thread I read I thought somebody had resolved it.
> > I think that's really rotten of them to set it up so it's inaccessible to
> > linux
> > and then not even make that clear to people while they are giving their big
> > sales plug!
> > It's like if you are blind and a non-windows user, you don't even
> > exist!
> > Nothing at bookshare that says "accessible only to Windows users"--at least
> > not
> > that I found;  just
> > trumpetting about their wonderful new service that i could have thrown $75
> > down
> > the drain for.!
> > Fine, if it's not accessible, they could at least state that clearly. They
> > certainly made the demo page accessible; very misleading!
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blinux-list mailing list
> > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blinux-list mailing list
> > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> >
>
>

-- 
Computers to Help People, Inc.
http://www.chpi.org
825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703

Re: bookshare inaccessible?

[John J. Boyer]

Janina,
Thanks for the explanation. I've always wondered how Freedom Scientific
could buy Arkenstone and have it remain a nonprofit. That is what one of
their press releases said. I'm the head of a nonprofit myself, and I was
wondering what legal loophole they wriggled through.
But bookshare.org is certainly behaving like FS. The part of their site
with public domain books should be freely accessible to everyone and
accessible with a text browser.
John
On Sun, 14 Apr 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> John:
>
> You're wrong. Benetech is not owned by Freedom Scientific. Where ever did you get such an idea into your head?
>
> Benetech is a 501(c)3 non profit in the U.S. BookShare is one of several Benetech projects.
>
> Perhaps here's what has you confused. Benetech was created when Arkenstone sold OpenBook to Freedom Scientific. Since
> Arkenstone was also a 501(c)3, no money from that sale could go to an inidividual, as indeed it did not. Rather, the
> President of Arkenstone, Jim Fruchterman, used the money to start Benetech, which he is also President of.
>
> But it is certainly not "owned" by anyone.
>
> On Sun, 14 Apr 2002, John J. Boyer wrote:
>
> > Cheryl,
> > Bookshare.org is run by Benetech, which is owned by Freedom Scientific.
> > >From my experience with the  latter company I'm not surprised that
> > bookshare.org is inaccessible. They have no sensitivity to their customers
> > needs. They don't even run their business properly.
> > John
> >
> >
> >
>
>

-- 
Computers to Help People, Inc.
http://www.chpi.org
825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703

Alert to Braille Readers!

[John J. Boyer]

Hello,
Please excuse this message if it is off topic. It needs to reach as many
people as possible, so please also forward it.
The Braille Authority of North America (BANA) needs feedback from actual
Braille readers on the proposed Uniform English Braille Code (UEBC). I have
been told by a reliable source that they have received very little, especially
 on the suitability of the UEBC for technical material. You can get the two
samplers that they have put out at the links below.

These are the links to the online versions of the UEBC samples in North
American ASCII braille format.

Sampler 1:
http://www.iceb.org/ubcb1.html
First part of Sampler 2:
http://www.iceb.org/ubcb2v1.html
Second part of Sampler 2:
http://www.iceb.org/ubcb2v2.html


You can download these files and either emboss them or load them onto a
notetaker such as the Braille Lite or Braille Note. If you use a Braille
display with your screen reader, the Duxbury Braille translator will also do a
good job of enabling you to read them directly from your hard drive.


Full Disclosure: I have no connection with BANA. Personally, I believe that
the UEBC is a bad idea whose time has passed. With the development of new
technology it is possible to use one file to produce Braille in any desired
code. Adoption of the UEBC will not make the books which have already been
produced in a given code any more available to those using a different code.
John J. Boyer, Executive Director

-- 
Computers to Help People, Inc.
http://www.chpi.org
825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703

RE: bookshare inaccessible?

[Janina Sajka]

Because the people who put it together did a less than adequate job of it.

But what has that to do with ownership?

On Sun, 14 Apr 2002, John J. Boyer wrote:

> Janina,
> So why isn't the public domain part of  bookshare accessible to anyone
> using a text browser. There are no copyright problems with that.
> John
> On Sun, 14
> Apr 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> 
> > Back off, Joe. Windows wouldn't be able to work with Book Share either, if it wasn't for the fact that the Book Share
> > people saw to it that software was written to support access. So, it's nothing intrinsic to linux, or any OS. It's a
> > closed system. That requires suppporting software on each and every OS that's going to be supported.
> >
> > Now, is there some part of this you don't understand? Or have I made this clear?
> >
> > On Sun, 14 Apr 2002, Joel Zimba wrote:
> >
> > > who ever said running linux didn't have a downside.
> > >
> > > besides, if linux is so adaptable and wonderful, how come it can't manage to
> > > do this?  what is it about the sitewhich won't work in Linux?
> > >
> > > ---
> > >
> > > Of course if it were my website, it woulden't be an issue, and it's also
> > > worth noting you can get to the files on the nls website with linux ust fine
> > > (at least last time I tried)
> > > I can't see how security has to be that different.
> > >
> > >
> > > Of course the irony isn't lost on me (accessibility project being
> > > inaccessible)  but you really should expect this being a linux user.
> > >
> > >
> > > btw, has anyone tried the libraries for bringing up guis in text mode?  the
> > > tag line on slashdot was about
> > > Conquorer in text-mode.
> > >
> > > </stream of consiousness>
> > >
> > > J
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: blinux-list-admin@redhat.com
> > > [mailto:blinux-list-admin@redhat.com]On Behalf Of Cheryl Homiak
> > > Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 11:23 AM
> > > To: speakup
> > > Cc: blinux-list@redhat.com
> > > Subject: Re: bookshare inaccessible?
> > >
> > >
> > > Janina just informed me bookshare doesn't have accessible software for
> > > linux yet.
> > > Sorry, from the thread I read I thought somebody had resolved it.
> > > I think that's really rotten of them to set it up so it's inaccessible to
> > > linux
> > > and then not even make that clear to people while they are giving their big
> > > sales plug!
> > > It's like if you are blind and a non-windows user, you don't even
> > > exist!
> > > Nothing at bookshare that says "accessible only to Windows users"--at least
> > > not
> > > that I found;  just
> > > trumpetting about their wonderful new service that i could have thrown $75
> > > down
> > > the drain for.!
> > > Fine, if it's not accessible, they could at least state that clearly. They
> > > certainly made the demo page accessible; very misleading!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Blinux-list mailing list
> > > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Blinux-list mailing list
> > > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> > >
> >
> >
> 
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: bookshare inaccessible?

[Janina Sajka]

They had apress release that said they owned Benetech?

You're right about the rest of it, John. There's no excuse for the inaccessible, and overly complicated interface.

On Sun, 14 Apr 2002, John J. Boyer wrote:

> Janina,
> Thanks for the explanation. I've always wondered how Freedom Scientific
> could buy Arkenstone and have it remain a nonprofit. That is what one of
> their press releases said. I'm the head of a nonprofit myself, and I was
> wondering what legal loophole they wriggled through.
> But bookshare.org is certainly behaving like FS. The part of their site
> with public domain books should be freely accessible to everyone and
> accessible with a text browser.
> John
> On Sun, 14 Apr 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:
> 
> > John:
> >
> > You're wrong. Benetech is not owned by Freedom Scientific. Where ever did you get such an idea into your head?
> >
> > Benetech is a 501(c)3 non profit in the U.S. BookShare is one of several Benetech projects.
> >
> > Perhaps here's what has you confused. Benetech was created when Arkenstone sold OpenBook to Freedom Scientific. Since
> > Arkenstone was also a 501(c)3, no money from that sale could go to an inidividual, as indeed it did not. Rather, the
> > President of Arkenstone, Jim Fruchterman, used the money to start Benetech, which he is also President of.
> >
> > But it is certainly not "owned" by anyone.
> >
> > On Sun, 14 Apr 2002, John J. Boyer wrote:
> >
> > > Cheryl,
> > > Bookshare.org is run by Benetech, which is owned by Freedom Scientific.
> > > >From my experience with the  latter company I'm not surprised that
> > > bookshare.org is inaccessible. They have no sensitivity to their customers
> > > needs. They don't even run their business properly.
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> 
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

RE: bookshare inaccessible?

[GJS]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2401 bytes --]

Hello everyone, I am Gordon Svoboda and new to the list. I am an assistive
technology consultant in Ohio.

John Boyer, FYI for historical accuracy, if you are referring to the maker
of Jaws as the ones who bought Arkenstone, that isn't quite right. The maker
of Jaws was Henter-Joyce. Henter-Joyce was bought and formed into Freedom
Scientific about the same time Arkenstone was acquired and brought in.

Trivia, I know.

regards, Gordon




-----Original Message-----
From: blinux-list-admin@redhat.com
[mailto:blinux-list-admin@redhat.com]On Behalf Of John J. Boyer
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 5:09 PM
To: blinux-list@redhat.com
Subject: Re: bookshare inaccessible?


Janina,
Thanks for the explanation. I've always wondered how Freedom Scientific
could buy Arkenstone and have it remain a nonprofit. That is what one of
their press releases said. I'm the head of a nonprofit myself, and I was
wondering what legal loophole they wriggled through.
But bookshare.org is certainly behaving like FS. The part of their site
with public domain books should be freely accessible to everyone and
accessible with a text browser.
John
On Sun, 14 Apr 2002, Janina Sajka wrote:

> John:
>
> You're wrong. Benetech is not owned by Freedom Scientific. Where ever did
you get such an idea into your head?
>
> Benetech is a 501(c)3 non profit in the U.S. BookShare is one of several
Benetech projects.
>
> Perhaps here's what has you confused. Benetech was created when Arkenstone
sold OpenBook to Freedom Scientific. Since
> Arkenstone was also a 501(c)3, no money from that sale could go to an
inidividual, as indeed it did not. Rather, the
> President of Arkenstone, Jim Fruchterman, used the money to start
Benetech, which he is also President of.
>
> But it is certainly not "owned" by anyone.
>
> On Sun, 14 Apr 2002, John J. Boyer wrote:
>
> > Cheryl,
> > Bookshare.org is run by Benetech, which is owned by Freedom Scientific.
> > >From my experience with the  latter company I'm not surprised that
> > bookshare.org is inaccessible. They have no sensitivity to their
customers
> > needs. They don't even run their business properly.
> > John
> >
> >
> >
>
>

--
Computers to Help People, Inc.
http://www.chpi.org
825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703




_______________________________________________
Blinux-list mailing list
Blinux-list@redhat.com
https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #2: Gordon Svoboda.vcf --]
[-- Type: text/x-vcard; name="Gordon Svoboda.vcf", Size: 429 bytes --]

BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:2.1
N:Svoboda;Gordon
FN:Gordon Svoboda
ORG:Nexstage Technology Services, Inc.
NOTE:LOW VISION AND BLIND COMPUTER USER SUPPORT SERVICES.
TEL;WORK;VOICE:(330) 524-4444
ADR;WORK:;;240 Mull Ave.;Akron;OH;44313;United States of America
LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=QUOTED-PRINTABLE:240 Mull Ave.=0D=0AAkron, OH 44313=0D=0AUnited States of America
EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:GJS@4NTS.net
REV:20020411T044433Z
END:VCARD

RE: bookshare inaccessible?

[Cheryl Homiak]

that is my point, Joel; we shouldn't be "painted into a corner" b a group who
was supposedly trying to make books accessible to BLIND people. I don't whine
and complain if mainstream sites seem a little challenging to me, but the people
designing this site apparently made it unfriendly to say the least even to
windows people, if Ann's description means anything. they designed their site so
that special software has to be created for each and every OS using it. Then
they come up with some half-baked excuse about ssl being all we need to solve
the problem; I used ssl on amazon.com just last night so I know better than
that. Finally, I see no disclaimer or warning anywhere on their site that a
particular OS or particular software is essential, yet they want me to pay $75
for this wonderful opportunity for a year. This is worse in some ways than the
Java script issues and buttons without links, etc. that we run into regularly,
because this site purports to be for the use of blind people. Only I wonder:
who designed it? Blind people, or sighted people who thought they knew what
blind people needed, or blind and/or sighted people who were paying no attention
to what we (I mean blind people, not just linux users) need or find most
useable? When a sighted person 9and this is in windows) has to help a blind
person sign up on a site supposedly designed to serve blind people, something is
wrong.
Let me make it clear that I don't think that everybody is obligated to fulfill
my every wish as far as websites or anything else just because i am blind or
just because I use linux; I believe that we also have responsibility and
necessity for adaptation and program development. But I see no excuse for the
kind of website these people designed, targeting a specific minority as they
supposedly were.

RE: bookshare inaccessible?

[Joel Zimba]

well said my friend!

for the record I do agree with you, and for that matter, see Dave's recent
post.  perhaps the problem isn't really their site.

imho, lynx is falling behind rather quickly.  I'm pretty fed up with it, and
looking for a reasonable alternative.  I'm not singling you out by any
means.  I don't want to use my windows machine exclusively, but it's
becoming my choice more and more often.

I kinda feel like my mac using friends who shed a few tears and buy their
first pc.  there's tons of potential in linux.  it's growing every day.
I've put some time into exploring the gnome stuff, and in ... several
months/years the gap stuff may work well enough.

this console-based paradigm has got to go though.  it's cool and powerful,
but getting to me.

Again, I love the irony of the website being hard to use by a blind linux
user.


J
-----Original Message-----
From: blinux-list-admin@redhat.com
[mailto:blinux-list-admin@redhat.com]On Behalf Of Cheryl Homiak
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 6:09 PM
To: blinux-list@redhat.com
Subject: RE: bookshare inaccessible?


that is my point, Joel; we shouldn't be "painted into a corner" b a group
who
was supposedly trying to make books accessible to BLIND people. I don't
whine
and complain if mainstream sites seem a little challenging to me, but the
people
designing this site apparently made it unfriendly to say the least even to
windows people, if Ann's description means anything. they designed their
site so
that special software has to be created for each and every OS using it. Then
they come up with some half-baked excuse about ssl being all we need to
solve
the problem; I used ssl on amazon.com just last night so I know better than
that. Finally, I see no disclaimer or warning anywhere on their site that a
particular OS or particular software is essential, yet they want me to pay
$75
for this wonderful opportunity for a year. This is worse in some ways than
the
Java script issues and buttons without links, etc. that we run into
regularly,
because this site purports to be for the use of blind people. Only I wonder:
who designed it? Blind people, or sighted people who thought they knew what
blind people needed, or blind and/or sighted people who were paying no
attention
to what we (I mean blind people, not just linux users) need or find most
useable? When a sighted person 9and this is in windows) has to help a blind
person sign up on a site supposedly designed to serve blind people,
something is
wrong.
Let me make it clear that I don't think that everybody is obligated to
fulfill
my every wish as far as websites or anything else just because i am blind or
just because I use linux; I believe that we also have responsibility and
necessity for adaptation and program development. But I see no excuse for
the
kind of website these people designed, targeting a specific minority as they
supposedly were.



_______________________________________________
Blinux-list mailing list
Blinux-list@redhat.com
https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list

Re: bookshare inaccessible?

[Cheryl Homiak]

Why thank you, John.
I wasn't aware of the connection between bookshare and FS.

RE: bookshare inaccessible?

[Cheryl Homiak]

Yes, Joel, I do understand what you are saying. I really believe that unless
lynx develops further, our choices are: (1) find a way into Xwindows (I know
there are possibiliteies there); or (2) get windows. I would have broken down
and done this by now, but the thought of the expense of windows plus screen
reader and either another computer or setting up a dual system on this one is
somewhat overwhelming to me.
I do understand; i myself have voiced concdrns about lynx development on this
list, as have other.