* some comments on software platform accessibility [not found] <15373.49271.43983.793325@gargle.gargle.HOWL> @ ` Bill Gaughan ` Ari Moisio 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Bill Gaughan @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacspeak, blinux-list Cc: William Schiavo, Jason Castonguay, Christopher Moore the RFB&D catalog search works fine with LYNX. I mean you can still use linux. Look, everyone, the real world uses MS Windows. That's just the way it is. You and I know that Linux rules, that Linux is the best tool for the blind, but, few people know what Unix and Linux is, today, and even fewer people know what Emacs is. I know I sound like I am preaching to the choir, but, if blind people didn't learn Windows and Windows access technology, as cumbersome and inefficient and unfriendly the feedback to us is from our windows screen readers, then sighted people won't even talk to us let alone hire us. As it is they don't hire us when we demonstrate that we will try to use their software tools. But, if we insist on using software tools (which work for us) but which they think come from Mars, then the bottom line is that even fewer blind people will ever work. As it is right now, over 70 percent of us don't work at gainful employment, and we are grossly underutilized when we do work. If you are fortunate enough to work in a company that uses unix/linux or in a university setting, then you are lucky indeed. But, most of us did not and never will. The phone receptionist or the medical transcriptionist or the customer service rep absolutely must use windows and JFW or Window-eyes or she won't get the job. And that's all there is to that, folks. And yes, she will have to pull her hair out if she wants to work, because everytime they change the network in her office, then she has to get someone to fix JFW or find someone to write a script for JFW or ask for a product upgrade that JFW will support. Or she has to know enough about this stuff to be able to fix it herself, which means that she might as well have a computer science degree. This is why lists like this one and the blinux list are so important, because we can share successes and horror stories alike and help each other with suggestions and solutions to common problems. Is there anyone out there who has had their job saved because of a tip they got from somebody on a list like this one? Stories like that should be posted to the list. People need to hear and read how the list is actually helping in real life situations. Because that is what this is all about, folks. Been there, done that, folks, for 20 years. If you are fortunate, sighted people at work will listen to you. But, after four or five years of us blind folk around them, most sighted people at work think we are just making excuses or that we don't want to work when we say we need something different on our desks that they don't support. I just don't see how this is a battle that we can win. There are just too few of us. MS Windows is going to get more graphical, because the younger generation is reading less and less. Television and video are taking over, at home and in our schools and in the workplace. Just try and take one of those self-paced tutorials at work that teaches you how to use your company's e-mail program. In my case, before I finally left work, it was Lotus Notes. Just awful stuff. and the video audio was all point and click, point and click. Click on this, and click on that. I learned absolutely nothing and could no longer us my e-mail system. Hay, at least, before that disaster, I was using cc-mail in DOS, which was very doable with a powerbraille 40 and SPB. We need to learn and use all the technology we can and that includes windows, unfortunately. for the truth is, if you don't learn the windows environment, you won't work. and that comment is not an endorsement of MicroSoft products. I still think that linux rules, but, in the workplace it does not. Linux rules only on your home computer. Unless, of course, you are given extraordinary independence, which most work settings do not allow. Keep plugging away, and keep smiling. and remember, GUI's will always be gooey. But peanutbutter fudge is gooey, too, and, oh, how sweet it is! ummmm! <grin> <grin> -- Bill Gaughan wgaughan@snet.net On Wed, 5 Dec 2001, Jason White wrote: > Meanwhile, just use the Library of Congress Union Catalogue > (http://lcweb.loc.gov/nls/web-blnd/advancedsearch.html) which includes > the entire RFB & D catalogue as well as records from various libraries > in North America, the UK and elsewhere. In the case of RFB & D entries > it also provides, where available, tables of contents, annotations and > other book details that don't appear in RFB & D's online catalogue. > > Another option is http://sun1.aph.org/louis.htm which has similar > holdings. > > As this is moving off-topic for the list, I suggest that any further > follow-up be sent to me directly rather than to the Emacspeak list. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the emacspeak list or change your address on the > emacspeak list send mail to "emacspeak-request@cs.vassar.edu" with a > subject of "unsubscribe" or "help" > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: some comments on software platform accessibility ` some comments on software platform accessibility Bill Gaughan @ ` Ari Moisio ` Bill Gaughan [not found] ` <Pine.LNX.4.40.0112061615370.2275-100000@beethoven.wgaughan .net> 0 siblings, 2 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Ari Moisio @ UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: emacspeak, Blinux-list Hi! Comments on comments: First there is lot of job opportunities within file, mail and webserver maintenance. MOst of those use some *x operating system. Most of those have no configuration interface, just a bunch of text files to edit. No menus, no buttons, no dialogues, no bitmaps, no images and no accessibility problems. Secondly: ever after learnign windows and all tricks of his/her screenreader with every program used blind worker should be equally or more productive than sighted colleagues who can sinply look the screen. This difference exists of ccourse in *x environment too but there it is mainly reading speed, not figuring layout of the screen. As a sidenote: local training center for the blind planned to keep course on Linux but they had severe problems to find a teacher; all blind advanced LInux users they askedwere too busy with their own jobs. Fortunately they found finally one who volunteered because it was Linux course. -- Mr. Ari Moisio, Niittykatu 7, 41160 Tikkakoski, +358-40-5055239 ari.moisio@iki.fi http://www.iki.fi/arimo PGP-keyID: 0x3FAF0F05 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: some comments on software platform accessibility ` Ari Moisio @ ` Bill Gaughan ` Luke Davis [not found] ` <Pine.LNX.4.40.0112061615370.2275-100000@beethoven.wgaughan .net> 1 sibling, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Bill Gaughan @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Blinux-list Hello, Thank you for your comments. I see from your e-mail address that you are from Finnland. I am from the USA. Here in the states, training centers for the blind never heard of linux. Linux is a foreign word to them. The only thing they know is speech with eloquence and Jaws For Windows. The only networking that big businesses in the states seem to know these days is Windows NT, unless they are small ISP's. But, with DSL and cable modems taking over here in the USA, small ISP's are being pushed out of business by big cable and telephone companies. It's the way they have the pricing structured around here. For example, to get DSL here you need to pay your telephone company that provides you with local service for your DSL connection. Then they will usually give you your ISP connection for free because you are paying them for the digital DSL service on your local phone line with your local service. Here in my local area, DSL is $49.00 a month. Now, if you go to an outside provider, an ISP who provides DSL, they will usually charge you $10 to $15 monthly for an IP address. But, you still have to pay your local phone company for the DSL connection, not your ISP. So, when the phone company gives you an ip address for free, what are you going to do? You are more than likely going to drop your old ISP and save yourself $15 a month. Right? I am happy to see that Europe is more progressive in how it approaches technology. Thank you for sharing this information with us. -- Bill Gaughan wgaughan@snet.net On Thu, 6 Dec 2001, Ari Moisio wrote: > Hi! > > Comments on comments: > > First there is lot of job opportunities within file, mail and > webserver maintenance. MOst of those use some *x operating system. Most > of those have no configuration interface, just a bunch of text files to > edit. No menus, no buttons, no dialogues, no bitmaps, no images and no > accessibility problems. > > Secondly: ever after learnign windows and all tricks of his/her > screenreader with every program used blind worker should be equally or > more productive than sighted colleagues who can sinply look the screen. > > This difference exists of ccourse in *x environment too but there it > is mainly reading speed, not figuring layout of the screen. > > As a sidenote: local training center for the blind planned to keep > course on Linux but they had severe problems to find a teacher; all > blind advanced LInux users they askedwere too busy with their own jobs. > > Fortunately they found finally one who volunteered because it was > Linux course. > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: some comments on software platform accessibility ` Bill Gaughan @ ` Luke Davis 0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Luke Davis @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: Blinux-list Actually, there is $49.95 DSL service, not through the phone company. I can provide a link to that. You shouldn't require a static IP (they are nice, but), and if you do, $15/month seems a little high. On Thu, 6 Dec 2001, Bill Gaughan wrote: > Hello, > > Thank you for your comments. I see from your e-mail address that you are > from Finnland. I am from the USA. Here in the states, training centers for > the blind never heard of linux. Linux is a foreign word to them. The only > thing they know is speech with eloquence and Jaws For Windows. The only > networking that big businesses in the states seem to know these days is > Windows NT, unless they are small ISP's. But, with DSL and cable modems > taking over here in the USA, small ISP's are being pushed out of business > by big cable and telephone companies. It's the way they have the pricing > structured around here. For example, to get DSL here you need to pay your > telephone company that provides you with local service for your DSL > connection. Then they will usually give you your ISP connection for free > because you are paying them for the digital DSL service on your local > phone line with your local service. Here in my local area, DSL is $49.00 a > month. Now, if you go to an outside provider, an ISP who provides DSL, > they will usually charge you $10 to $15 monthly for an IP address. But, > you still have to pay your local phone company for the DSL connection, not > your ISP. So, when the phone company gives you an ip address for free, > what are you going to do? You are more than likely going to drop your old > ISP and save yourself $15 a month. Right? > > I am happy to see that Europe is more progressive in how it approaches > technology. Thank you for sharing this information with us. > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
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* Re: some comments on software platform accessibility [not found] ` <Pine.LNX.4.40.0112061615370.2275-100000@beethoven.wgaughan .net> @ ` Brent Harding 0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Brent Harding @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: blinux-list I've used windows quite a bit, but I'm starting to try linux, my isp gives shell access, they affiliate through netacc.net, don't know how small that company is, but dns is fairly slow and I get disconnected at night, stuck with dialup. Once I go to school though, they'll be getting t1 in the dorms in January, so with luck it might be there before I am, or else aol it is as the other isp would likely filter this group out with declude.com's software, a friend used that isp, and headers showed such. At 04:29 PM 12/6/01 -0500, you wrote: >Hello, > >Thank you for your comments. I see from your e-mail address that you are >from Finnland. I am from the USA. Here in the states, training centers for >the blind never heard of linux. Linux is a foreign word to them. The only >thing they know is speech with eloquence and Jaws For Windows. The only >networking that big businesses in the states seem to know these days is >Windows NT, unless they are small ISP's. But, with DSL and cable modems >taking over here in the USA, small ISP's are being pushed out of business >by big cable and telephone companies. It's the way they have the pricing >structured around here. For example, to get DSL here you need to pay your >telephone company that provides you with local service for your DSL >connection. Then they will usually give you your ISP connection for free >because you are paying them for the digital DSL service on your local >phone line with your local service. Here in my local area, DSL is $49.00 a >month. Now, if you go to an outside provider, an ISP who provides DSL, >they will usually charge you $10 to $15 monthly for an IP address. But, >you still have to pay your local phone company for the DSL connection, not >your ISP. So, when the phone company gives you an ip address for free, >what are you going to do? You are more than likely going to drop your old >ISP and save yourself $15 a month. Right? > >I am happy to see that Europe is more progressive in how it approaches >technology. Thank you for sharing this information with us. > >-- >Bill Gaughan >wgaughan@snet.net > > >On Thu, 6 Dec 2001, Ari Moisio wrote: > >> Hi! >> >> Comments on comments: >> >> First there is lot of job opportunities within file, mail and >> webserver maintenance. MOst of those use some *x operating system. Most >> of those have no configuration interface, just a bunch of text files to >> edit. No menus, no buttons, no dialogues, no bitmaps, no images and no >> accessibility problems. >> >> Secondly: ever after learnign windows and all tricks of his/her >> screenreader with every program used blind worker should be equally or >> more productive than sighted colleagues who can sinply look the screen. >> >> This difference exists of ccourse in *x environment too but there it >> is mainly reading speed, not figuring layout of the screen. >> >> As a sidenote: local training center for the blind planned to keep >> course on Linux but they had severe problems to find a teacher; all >> blind advanced LInux users they askedwere too busy with their own jobs. >> >> Fortunately they found finally one who volunteered because it was >> Linux course. >> >> > > > >_______________________________________________ >Blinux-list mailing list >Blinux-list@redhat.com >https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* RE: some comments on software platform accessibility @ Ian Blackburn 0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Ian Blackburn @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: 'blinux-list@redhat.com' I agree with bill's comments about this subject not listed below ======================================================== Standard disclaimer: Any recipient of this communication acknowledges that: * the Government Employees Superannuation Board accepts no responsibility for the contents, nor the validity of this communication; and * they do not rely on any view given unless it is properly authorised. ======================================================== ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
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` some comments on software platform accessibility Bill Gaughan
` Ari Moisio
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` Luke Davis
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` Brent Harding
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