* List FAQ?
@ TaliaRolan
` personal money management tools for linux without X? Bill Gaughan
` (2 more replies)
0 siblings, 3 replies; 12+ messages in thread
From: TaliaRolan @ UTC (permalink / raw)
To: blinux-list
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I'm new to the list, and know virtually nothing about Linux, so I have about
a million questions. However, I don't want to annoy listmembers with
questions that have been covered several times. Does the list have a FAQ, or
is there a Linux FAQ with blindness-related questions?
Thanks,
Elisabeth C
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread* personal money management tools for linux without X? List FAQ? TaliaRolan @ ` Bill Gaughan ` Rafael Skodlar ` personal money management tools for linux without X? Jude DaShiell [not found] ` <Pine.LNX.4.40.0112011219260.364-100000@beethoven.wgaughan. net> ` List FAQ? Mike Gorse 2 siblings, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Bill Gaughan @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: blinux-list Hi, listers, I am looking for a money management program that works in linux without X-windows. One that is, of course, blind friendly. Pull-down menus or numbered key choices from a screen menu, okay. I need to do simple home money management, track a check register, income and expense tracking, keep track of credit card purchases, etc. I don't need fancy reports like account summaries or general ledgers. Just simple transaction data entry would be fine. Anybody remember MoneyCounts 8.0 for DOS from Parsons Technology. Well, I am still using it even to print checks. I would like to do all this in linux so I don't have to reboot back to DOS. Any accounting programs available in linux that are blind friendly? Oh, does anybody remember Charlie Crawford's talking checkbook program? That used to be available from www.empowermentzone.com? I have this one too, but it is DOS. But, it was freeware. Q. Has this program been ported to linux? If anybody knows how to get in touch with Charlie Crawford, please let him know that a linux port would be useful to many of his fellow blind friends. Any ideas, listers? -- Bill Gaughan wgaughan@snet.net ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: personal money management tools for linux without X? ` personal money management tools for linux without X? Bill Gaughan @ ` Rafael Skodlar ` nath31 ` Brent Harding ` personal money management tools for linux without X? Jude DaShiell 1 sibling, 2 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Rafael Skodlar @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: blinux-list I do not use DOS for many years and do not know the programs you are using under it. One thing that I would try first is to run dosemu, DOS emulator, and the same programs you use already. That way you gradualy move over to Linux and replace DOS programs with native Linux ones if available. Of course there is a danger that not all programs will run well under dosemu. Well behaved ones do. DOS partition can be mounted under Linux and accessed from dosemu and hopefuly your program would run the same way it does in it's native environment. There are commercial products like VMware and Win4linux (I think) which you can use for running windows in Linux or the other way around. I use VMware at work to run Windows 2000 inside Linux. I need that because of only one application, Checkpoint firewall management console. I must say that VMware works great and W2000 behaves like a real PC with emulation of power on,self test, boot, and networking. Good luck, -- Rafael On Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 12:36:12PM -0500, Bill Gaughan wrote: > > Hi, listers, > > I am looking for a money management program that works in linux without > X-windows. One that is, of course, blind friendly. Pull-down menus or > numbered key choices from a screen menu, okay. I need to do simple home > money management, track a check register, income and expense tracking, > keep track of credit card purchases, etc. I don't need fancy reports like > account summaries or general ledgers. Just simple transaction data entry > would be fine. Anybody remember MoneyCounts 8.0 for DOS from Parsons > Technology. Well, I am still using it even to print checks. I would like > to do all this in linux so I don't have to reboot back to DOS. Any > accounting programs available in linux that are blind friendly? > > Oh, does anybody remember Charlie Crawford's talking checkbook program? > That used to be available from www.empowermentzone.com? I have this one > too, but it is DOS. But, it was freeware. Q. Has this program been ported > to linux? If anybody knows how to get in touch with Charlie Crawford, > please let him know that a linux port would be useful to many of his > fellow blind friends. Any ideas, listers? > > > -- > Bill Gaughan > wgaughan@snet.net > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: personal money management tools for linux without X? ` Rafael Skodlar @ ` nath31 ` Rafael Skodlar ` Brent Harding 1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: nath31 @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: blinux-list Hi Rafael and other, rafael, your experience in using vmware is very interresting for mi. I want to ask you if you use vmware and W2000 with a screen reader like Jaws or same or only with a screen magnifier. Personally I wish to use vmware and windows with Jaws : do you think it will be possible ? And if you work in braille have you succeed in installing vmware without sighted assistance ? The last question : If you use Jaws or same can you access Vmware buttons like Power or so ? Thanks in advance for your feedback. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rafael Skodlar" <raffi@linwin.com> To: <blinux-list@redhat.com> Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 8:22 PM Subject: Re: personal money management tools for linux without X? > I do not use DOS for many years and do not know the programs you are using > under it. One thing that I would try first is to run dosemu, DOS emulator, > and the same programs you use already. That way you gradualy move over to > Linux and replace DOS programs with native Linux ones if available. Of > course there is a danger that not all programs will run well under dosemu. > Well behaved ones do. > > DOS partition can be mounted under Linux and accessed from dosemu and > hopefuly your program would run the same way it does in it's native > environment. > > There are commercial products like VMware and Win4linux (I think) which > you can use for running windows in Linux or the other way around. I use > VMware at work to run Windows 2000 inside Linux. I need that because of > only one application, Checkpoint firewall management console. I must say > that VMware works great and W2000 behaves like a real PC with > emulation of power on,self test, boot, and networking. > > Good luck, > > -- > Rafael > > > On Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 12:36:12PM -0500, Bill Gaughan wrote: > > > > Hi, listers, > > > > I am looking for a money management program that works in linux without > > X-windows. One that is, of course, blind friendly. Pull-down menus or > > numbered key choices from a screen menu, okay. I need to do simple home > > money management, track a check register, income and expense tracking, > > keep track of credit card purchases, etc. I don't need fancy reports like > > account summaries or general ledgers. Just simple transaction data entry > > would be fine. Anybody remember MoneyCounts 8.0 for DOS from Parsons > > Technology. Well, I am still using it even to print checks. I would like > > to do all this in linux so I don't have to reboot back to DOS. Any > > accounting programs available in linux that are blind friendly? > > > > Oh, does anybody remember Charlie Crawford's talking checkbook program? > > That used to be available from www.empowermentzone.com? I have this one > > too, but it is DOS. But, it was freeware. Q. Has this program been ported > > to linux? If anybody knows how to get in touch with Charlie Crawford, > > please let him know that a linux port would be useful to many of his > > fellow blind friends. Any ideas, listers? > > > > > > -- > > Bill Gaughan > > wgaughan@snet.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Blinux-list mailing list > Blinux-list@redhat.com > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list ______________________________________________________________________________ ifrance.com, l'email gratuit le plus complet de l'Internet ! vos emails depuis un navigateur, en POP3, sur Minitel, sur le WAP... http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/email.emailif ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: personal money management tools for linux without X? ` nath31 @ ` Rafael Skodlar ` Henry Yen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Rafael Skodlar @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: blinux-list On Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 10:38:16PM +0100, nath31 wrote: > Hi Rafael and other, > > rafael, your experience in using vmware is very interresting for mi. I > want to ask you if you use vmware and W2000 with a > screen reader like Jaws or same or only with a screen magnifier. VMware is very good at emulating PC including networking and other peripherals. You can connect or disconnect floppy or CDROM drives as you need them. You need to do that in order to share those devices with host OS, Linux in my case. Networking is different. A virtual network is established between the host OS and the one inside VMware so that you can > Personally I wish to usevmware and windows with Jaws : do > you think it will be possible ? I'm not visualy impaired so I use W2000 the way Microsoft intended it. Actualy, I use it for only one application at work, manage main firewall. Checkpoint company doesn't provide a Linux version of firewall manager which is a shame since they do have Linux version of firewall. We use Solaris version of checkpoint firewall by the way and W2000 for management. > And if you work in braille have you succeed in installing vmware without > sighted assistance ? The last question : If you use Did not think about that. To install VMware I did need to point and click in few places so I assume some assistance might be needed. VMware works all ways, another words you can use it inside MS windows to run Linux on the same system. I don't know whay somebody would want to do that :-) > Jaws or same can you access Vmware buttons like Power or so ? > Thanks in advance for your feedback. Yes, there is power button im VMware which turns virtual PC on, runs self test and proceeds to boot from virtual drive which is just a large file in Linux. You can have more than one virtual PC on your system. >From their website: single user license costs US $299.00 They provide 30-Day evaluation license. Note: I do not work for VMware or have any financial interests in their business. You experince might be different. There is at least one other product that has similar functionality, NeTraverse Win4Lin 3.0 for $79.99 (downloadable version), $89.99 for boxes set. It's Windows 95/98 environment for Linux and not as powerful as VMware as far as I know and I do not have any experience with it. Another option that might be of interest to some of you is single board computer omnicluster from http://www.slotserver.com. It's a PCI bus based fully functional computer that can be plugged into standard PC and share the hard drive or have it's own. PC inside the PC communicates over PCI bus to the main computer or you can connect it with it's ethernet port. It has it's own VGA video, ethernet, USB, and audio (IN OUT) ports. Basic unit goes for about $499. More expensive version has a serial port also. Using that solution one could run two or more operating systems in the same box independently and very efficiently. -- Rafael # My login password is misspelled name of town 10 km from my birthplace # and is subject to change without notice! ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: personal money management tools for linux without X? ` Rafael Skodlar @ ` Henry Yen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Henry Yen @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: blinux-list On Sun, Dec 02, 2001 at 12:07:05PM -0800, Rafael Skodlar wrote: > There is at least one other product that has similar functionality, > NeTraverse Win4Lin 3.0 for $79.99 (downloadable version), $89.99 for boxes > set. It's Windows 95/98 environment for Linux and not as powerful as > VMware as far as I know and I do not have any experience with it. win4lin is a great product. it runs windows9x faster than natively! it notably does not support directx, so it's not useful for games. for most uncomplicated applications, win4lin will run much faster and easier than vmware. however, applications that want to touch the hardware (including, to *some* extent, the serial port) may be better off with vmware. -- Henry Yen Aegis Information Systems, Inc. Senior Systems Programmer Hicksville, New York ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: personal money management tools for linux without X? ` Rafael Skodlar ` nath31 @ ` Brent Harding ` lobap 1 sibling, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: Brent Harding @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: blinux-list Will any screen readers used in dos run in dosemu? I use speakup in linux and find it doesn't do dos real well. If I end up with megadots or something like that, it'd be cool to use something like that in linux to braille away if I had a braille printer (can't afford it at the moment). At 11:22 AM 12/1/01 -0800, you wrote: >I do not use DOS for many years and do not know the programs you are using >under it. One thing that I would try first is to run dosemu, DOS emulator, >and the same programs you use already. That way you gradualy move over to >Linux and replace DOS programs with native Linux ones if available. Of >course there is a danger that not all programs will run well under dosemu. >Well behaved ones do. > >DOS partition can be mounted under Linux and accessed from dosemu and >hopefuly your program would run the same way it does in it's native >environment. > >There are commercial products like VMware and Win4linux (I think) which >you can use for running windows in Linux or the other way around. I use >VMware at work to run Windows 2000 inside Linux. I need that because of >only one application, Checkpoint firewall management console. I must say >that VMware works great and W2000 behaves like a real PC with >emulation of power on,self test, boot, and networking. > >Good luck, > >-- >Rafael > > >On Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 12:36:12PM -0500, Bill Gaughan wrote: >> >> Hi, listers, >> >> I am looking for a money management program that works in linux without >> X-windows. One that is, of course, blind friendly. Pull-down menus or >> numbered key choices from a screen menu, okay. I need to do simple home >> money management, track a check register, income and expense tracking, >> keep track of credit card purchases, etc. I don't need fancy reports like >> account summaries or general ledgers. Just simple transaction data entry >> would be fine. Anybody remember MoneyCounts 8.0 for DOS from Parsons >> Technology. Well, I am still using it even to print checks. I would like >> to do all this in linux so I don't have to reboot back to DOS. Any >> accounting programs available in linux that are blind friendly? >> >> Oh, does anybody remember Charlie Crawford's talking checkbook program? >> That used to be available from www.empowermentzone.com? I have this one >> too, but it is DOS. But, it was freeware. Q. Has this program been ported >> to linux? If anybody knows how to get in touch with Charlie Crawford, >> please let him know that a linux port would be useful to many of his >> fellow blind friends. Any ideas, listers? >> >> >> -- >> Bill Gaughan >> wgaughan@snet.net >> > > > >_______________________________________________ >Blinux-list mailing list >Blinux-list@redhat.com >https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: personal money management tools for linux without X? ` Brent Harding @ ` lobap ` braille translation software for linux Bill Gaughan 0 siblings, 1 reply; 12+ messages in thread From: lobap @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: blinux-list Hi: Haven't tried myself but I think there is a package for Braille embossers which runs under linux. You should be able to get it from NFB site, it is call nfbtr and the most current version is 758. Thanks, Pawel. On Sat, 1 Dec 2001, Brent Harding wrote: > Will any screen readers used in dos run in dosemu? I use speakup in linux > and find it doesn't do dos real well. If I end up with megadots or > something like that, it'd be cool to use something like that in linux to > braille away if I had a braille printer (can't afford it at the moment). > At 11:22 AM 12/1/01 -0800, you wrote: > >I do not use DOS for many years and do not know the programs you are using > >under it. One thing that I would try first is to run dosemu, DOS emulator, > >and the same programs you use already. That way you gradualy move over to > >Linux and replace DOS programs with native Linux ones if available. Of > >course there is a danger that not all programs will run well under dosemu. > >Well behaved ones do. > > > >DOS partition can be mounted under Linux and accessed from dosemu and > >hopefuly your program would run the same way it does in it's native > >environment. > > > >There are commercial products like VMware and Win4linux (I think) which > >you can use for running windows in Linux or the other way around. I use > >VMware at work to run Windows 2000 inside Linux. I need that because of > >only one application, Checkpoint firewall management console. I must say > >that VMware works great and W2000 behaves like a real PC with > >emulation of power on,self test, boot, and networking. > > > >Good luck, > > > >-- > >Rafael > > > > > >On Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 12:36:12PM -0500, Bill Gaughan wrote: > >> > >> Hi, listers, > >> > >> I am looking for a money management program that works in linux without > >> X-windows. One that is, of course, blind friendly. Pull-down menus or > >> numbered key choices from a screen menu, okay. I need to do simple home > >> money management, track a check register, income and expense tracking, > >> keep track of credit card purchases, etc. I don't need fancy reports like > >> account summaries or general ledgers. Just simple transaction data entry > >> would be fine. Anybody remember MoneyCounts 8.0 for DOS from Parsons > >> Technology. Well, I am still using it even to print checks. I would like > >> to do all this in linux so I don't have to reboot back to DOS. Any > >> accounting programs available in linux that are blind friendly? > >> > >> Oh, does anybody remember Charlie Crawford's talking checkbook program? > >> That used to be available from www.empowermentzone.com? I have this one > >> too, but it is DOS. But, it was freeware. Q. Has this program been ported > >> to linux? If anybody knows how to get in touch with Charlie Crawford, > >> please let him know that a linux port would be useful to many of his > >> fellow blind friends. Any ideas, listers? > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Bill Gaughan > >> wgaughan@snet.net > >> > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Blinux-list mailing list > >Blinux-list@redhat.com > >https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Blinux-list mailing list > Blinux-list@redhat.com > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* braille translation software for linux ` lobap @ ` Bill Gaughan 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Bill Gaughan @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: blinux-list Yes, nfbtrans 7.58 (a .zip download, because it can be build for DOS as well) does work. I have never embossed braille in linux, but, I have used the program to translate files. It also back-translates grade two files to printable ascii text. It gives you a menu with three choices. You might have to tinker with the source to get it to work. If I can remember what I did I will post another message. Also Chuck Hallenbeck's Turbo Braille has been ported to linux as tbrl-0.4.tar.gz. You run it like this: tbrl < file.txt > file.brl You might have to change the file called tb.h if you do not want the tbrl.xlt (translation table) to go to /usr/local/share/tbrl/ on the make install. If tbrl does not work after you install it, just look at tb.h file. For example, I want my .xlt in /usr/share/tbrl because I only use /usr/local for large packages like sgmltools and ocrshop. enought of my chatter. Both tbrl and nfbtrans work in linux beautifully. I could be wrong about this, but I think that tbrl also does grade three braille. -- Bill Gaughan wgaughan@snet.net On Sat, 1 Dec 2001 lobap@adaptech.net wrote: > Hi: > Haven't tried myself but I think there is a package for Braille embossers > which runs under linux. You should be able to get it from NFB site, it is > call nfbtr and the most current version is 758. > > Thanks, Pawel. > On Sat, 1 Dec 2001, Brent Harding wrote: > > > Will any screen readers used in dos run in dosemu? I use speakup in linux > > and find it doesn't do dos real well. If I end up with megadots or > > something like that, it'd be cool to use something like that in linux to > > braille away if I had a braille printer (can't afford it at the moment). > > At 11:22 AM 12/1/01 -0800, you wrote: > > >I do not use DOS for many years and do not know the programs you are using > > >under it. One thing that I would try first is to run dosemu, DOS emulator, > > >and the same programs you use already. That way you gradualy move over to > > >Linux and replace DOS programs with native Linux ones if available. Of > > >course there is a danger that not all programs will run well under dosemu. > > >Well behaved ones do. > > > > > >DOS partition can be mounted under Linux and accessed from dosemu and > > >hopefuly your program would run the same way it does in it's native > > >environment. > > > > > >There are commercial products like VMware and Win4linux (I think) which > > >you can use for running windows in Linux or the other way around. I use > > >VMware at work to run Windows 2000 inside Linux. I need that because of > > >only one application, Checkpoint firewall management console. I must say > > >that VMware works great and W2000 behaves like a real PC with > > >emulation of power on,self test, boot, and networking. > > > > > >Good luck, > > > > > >-- > > >Rafael > > > > > > > > >On Sat, Dec 01, 2001 at 12:36:12PM -0500, Bill Gaughan wrote: > > >> > > >> Hi, listers, > > >> > > >> I am looking for a money management program that works in linux without > > >> X-windows. One that is, of course, blind friendly. Pull-down menus or > > >> numbered key choices from a screen menu, okay. I need to do simple home > > >> money management, track a check register, income and expense tracking, > > >> keep track of credit card purchases, etc. I don't need fancy reports like > > >> account summaries or general ledgers. Just simple transaction data entry > > >> would be fine. Anybody remember MoneyCounts 8.0 for DOS from Parsons > > >> Technology. Well, I am still using it even to print checks. I would like > > >> to do all this in linux so I don't have to reboot back to DOS. Any > > >> accounting programs available in linux that are blind friendly? > > >> > > >> Oh, does anybody remember Charlie Crawford's talking checkbook program? > > >> That used to be available from www.empowermentzone.com? I have this one > > >> too, but it is DOS. But, it was freeware. Q. Has this program been ported > > >> to linux? If anybody knows how to get in touch with Charlie Crawford, > > >> please let him know that a linux port would be useful to many of his > > >> fellow blind friends. Any ideas, listers? > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Bill Gaughan > > >> wgaughan@snet.net > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > >Blinux-list mailing list > > >Blinux-list@redhat.com > > >https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Blinux-list mailing list > > Blinux-list@redhat.com > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Blinux-list mailing list > Blinux-list@redhat.com > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: personal money management tools for linux without X? ` personal money management tools for linux without X? Bill Gaughan ` Rafael Skodlar @ ` Jude DaShiell 1 sibling, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Jude DaShiell @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: blinux-list So far as I know, there's sc dismal and oleo. These are all spreadsheet programs. Once you get them, you roll your own money management applications. red hat so far as I can tell doesn't distribute any of these in their boxed sets. Jude <jdashiel@shellworld.net> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
[parent not found: <Pine.LNX.4.40.0112011219260.364-100000@beethoven.wgaughan. net>]
* Re: personal money management tools for linux without X? [not found] ` <Pine.LNX.4.40.0112011219260.364-100000@beethoven.wgaughan. net> @ ` Brent Harding 0 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Brent Harding @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: blinux-list Quicken for windows with jfw is great! At 12:36 PM 12/1/01 -0500, you wrote: > >Hi, listers, > >I am looking for a money management program that works in linux without >X-windows. One that is, of course, blind friendly. Pull-down menus or >numbered key choices from a screen menu, okay. I need to do simple home >money management, track a check register, income and expense tracking, >keep track of credit card purchases, etc. I don't need fancy reports like >account summaries or general ledgers. Just simple transaction data entry >would be fine. Anybody remember MoneyCounts 8.0 for DOS from Parsons >Technology. Well, I am still using it even to print checks. I would like >to do all this in linux so I don't have to reboot back to DOS. Any >accounting programs available in linux that are blind friendly? > >Oh, does anybody remember Charlie Crawford's talking checkbook program? >That used to be available from www.empowermentzone.com? I have this one >too, but it is DOS. But, it was freeware. Q. Has this program been ported >to linux? If anybody knows how to get in touch with Charlie Crawford, >please let him know that a linux port would be useful to many of his >fellow blind friends. Any ideas, listers? > > >-- >Bill Gaughan >wgaughan@snet.net > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Blinux-list mailing list >Blinux-list@redhat.com >https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
* Re: List FAQ? List FAQ? TaliaRolan ` personal money management tools for linux without X? Bill Gaughan [not found] ` <Pine.LNX.4.40.0112011219260.364-100000@beethoven.wgaughan. net> @ ` Mike Gorse 2 siblings, 0 replies; 12+ messages in thread From: Mike Gorse @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: blinux-list see http://leb.net/blinux/ --Michael Gorse / ICQ:22583968 / http://mgorse.home.dhs.org On Sat, 1 Dec 2001 TaliaRolan@aol.com wrote: > I'm new to the list, and know virtually nothing about Linux, so I have about > a million questions. However, I don't want to annoy listmembers with > questions that have been covered several times. Does the list have a FAQ, or > is there a Linux FAQ with blindness-related questions? > > Thanks, > > Elisabeth C > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 12+ messages in thread
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List FAQ? TaliaRolan
` personal money management tools for linux without X? Bill Gaughan
` Rafael Skodlar
` nath31
` Rafael Skodlar
` Henry Yen
` Brent Harding
` lobap
` braille translation software for linux Bill Gaughan
` personal money management tools for linux without X? Jude DaShiell
[not found] ` <Pine.LNX.4.40.0112011219260.364-100000@beethoven.wgaughan. net>
` Brent Harding
` List FAQ? Mike Gorse
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