* looking for... @ lobap ` Jacek Zadrozny 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: lobap @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: blinux-list; +Cc: blinux-newbie Hello all: I'm looking for Polish Linux users on either of those lists. I'm interested in Polish speech output being used under this operating system. I suspect that Braille access was already developed but am not sure about speech one. Thanks, Pawel. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: looking for... looking for lobap @ ` Jacek Zadrozny ` Bill Gaughan 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Jacek Zadrozny @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: blinux-list ----- Original Message ----- From: <lobap@adaptech.net> To: <blinux-list@redhat.com> Cc: <blinux-newbie@braille.uwo.ca> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 8:22 PM Subject: looking for... > Hello all: > I'm looking for Polish Linux users on either of those lists. I'm > interested in Polish speech output being used under this operating system. > I suspect that Braille access was already developed but am not sure about > speech one. > > Thanks, Pawel. > See this: http://kdn.prv.pl/linux/ No i jest polska lista blinuxowa, ale dopiero raczkuje. Regards Jacek> > > _______________________________________________ > Blinux-list mailing list > Blinux-list@redhat.com > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: looking for... ` Jacek Zadrozny @ ` Bill Gaughan ` Dave Mielke 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Bill Gaughan @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: blinux-list Dave, The grade 2 translator for ScreenPower Braille (which employs a version of Duxbury) translates the whole screen at once. What I think it does is translates the information in the VersaBraille's buffer. I think what you want to do is translate everything in the brltty buffer at once, so, when the reader hits the advance buttons, the next display would be in grade two until the feature was turned off. you could use a braille keypad hot-key to toggle this, of course. With view2.exe and spb.exe in DOS, the feature stays on until you toggle it off with a braille hot-key. So, for example, I can work in WordPerfect 6.0, preparing my document and reading all the menu and command features of the software all in grade two braille until I decide to turn it off. Grade two braille in brltty would be great for web-braille readers, instant grade two right on the net, or for reading news on world net daily or American Freedom News. -- Bill Gaughan wgaughan@snet.net On Mon, 26 Nov 2001, Jacek Zadrozny wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <lobap@adaptech.net> > To: <blinux-list@redhat.com> > Cc: <blinux-newbie@braille.uwo.ca> > Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 8:22 PM > Subject: looking for... > > > > Hello all: > > I'm looking for Polish Linux users on either of those lists. I'm > > interested in Polish speech output being used under this operating system. > > I suspect that Braille access was already developed but am not sure about > > speech one. > > > > Thanks, Pawel. > > > See this: http://kdn.prv.pl/linux/ > No i jest polska lista blinuxowa, ale dopiero raczkuje. > Regards > Jacek> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Blinux-list mailing list > > Blinux-list@redhat.com > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Blinux-list mailing list > Blinux-list@redhat.com > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: looking for... ` Bill Gaughan @ ` Dave Mielke ` Grade 2 and Brltty (was " John J. Boyer ` Bill Gaughan 0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Dave Mielke @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: blinux-list [quoted lines by Bill Gaughan on November 26, 2001, at 10:05] >The grade 2 translator for ScreenPower Braille (which employs a version of >Duxbury) translates the whole screen at once. What I think it does is >translates the information in the VersaBraille's buffer. I think what you >want to do is translate everything in the brltty buffer at once, so, when >the reader hits the advance buttons, the next display would be in grade >two until the feature was turned off. What about formatting? Does it fill each line by picking up the beginning of the next line to fill out the end of the previous, now shorter, previous line, or does it leave each line as an atomic element? What about left margin indentation? -- Dave Mielke | 2213 Fox Crescent | I believe that the Bible is the Phone: 1-613-726-0014 | Ottawa, Ontario | Word of God. Please contact me EMail: dave@mielke.cc | Canada K2A 1H7 | if you're concerned about Hell. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Grade 2 and Brltty (was looking for... ` Dave Mielke @ ` John J. Boyer ` Bill Gaughan 1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: John J. Boyer @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: blinux-list Dave, My experience is with Jaws. As best I can make out, it translates until either there is enough to fill the display or the end of the line is reached. The display never contains parts of two lines, though this may have been changed in the latest version. Translating the whole screen at once is not a good idea, because the screen may change while you are reading it. Extra blanks are usually omitted to get as much as possible on the display. John Computers to Help People, Inc. http://www.chpi.org 825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Mielke" <dave@mielke.cc> To: <blinux-list@redhat.com> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 11:01 Subject: Re: looking for... > [quoted lines by Bill Gaughan on November 26, 2001, at 10:05] > > >The grade 2 translator for ScreenPower Braille (which employs a version of > >Duxbury) translates the whole screen at once. What I think it does is > >translates the information in the VersaBraille's buffer. I think what you > >want to do is translate everything in the brltty buffer at once, so, when > >the reader hits the advance buttons, the next display would be in grade > >two until the feature was turned off. > > What about formatting? Does it fill each line by picking up the beginning of > the next line to fill out the end of the previous, now shorter, previous line, > or does it leave each line as an atomic element? What about left margin > indentation? > > -- > Dave Mielke | 2213 Fox Crescent | I believe that the Bible is the > Phone: 1-613-726-0014 | Ottawa, Ontario | Word of God. Please contact me > EMail: dave@mielke.cc | Canada K2A 1H7 | if you're concerned about Hell. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Blinux-list mailing list > Blinux-list@redhat.com > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: looking for... ` Dave Mielke ` Grade 2 and Brltty (was " John J. Boyer @ ` Bill Gaughan ` Grade 2 for Brltty (was " John J. Boyer 1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Bill Gaughan @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: blinux-list -- Bill Gaughan wgaughan@snet.net On Mon, 26 Nov 2001, Dave Mielke wrote: > [quoted lines by Bill Gaughan on November 26, 2001, at 10:05] > > >The grade 2 translator for ScreenPower Braille (which employs a version of > >Duxbury) translates the whole screen at once. What I think it does is > >translates the information in the VersaBraille's buffer. I think what you > >want to do is translate everything in the brltty buffer at once, so, when > >the reader hits the advance buttons, the next display would be in grade > >two until the feature was turned off. > > What about formatting? Does it fill each line by picking up the beginning of > the next line to fill out the end of the previous, now shorter, previous line, > or does it leave each line as an atomic element? What about left margin > indentation? > It leaves the rest of the lines blank, but, since most lines would be over 40 characters anyway, (the standard braille line length on paper), you wouldn't have to reformat the buffer by starting a new print line on the same braille line of the previous print line just because there was room left on the new braille line. That would get too messy and I think, it would be too hard to program. The only reformatting you would want to do, and this is not a requirement really, might be to use two spaces instead of five spaces for a new paragraph. And you could delete blank lines from the display buffer when translating. Maybe brltty could have two buffers, a computer braille buffer and a grade two buffer. Also, I think you would want this feature to be a plug-in compatible option like the synthesizer drivers or make it library code. Maybe you could borrow code from nfbtrans package or turbo-braille code that was ported to linux. just some thoughts. I am not a C++ programmer. I was a COBOL programmer until three years ago, though. > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Grade 2 for Brltty (was looking for... ` Bill Gaughan @ ` John J. Boyer ` Bill Gaughan 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: John J. Boyer @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: blinux-list Bill, I agree with most of these ideas. However, I think that only enough to fill the display should be trranslated at one time. I also think that a translation module should be built into brltty and that the needs of various languages should be taken care of with translation tables, which could be selected as text tables are now. The Grade 2 translation tables would be in a form that could be edited by the user, although translation tables for each language owould be provided as part of the package. I have a Grade 2 translation routine written in C which could be adapted, or some code could be taken from nfbtrans. It would depend on which algorithm is faster. John Computers to Help People, Inc. http://www.chpi.org 825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Gaughan" <wgaughan@snet.net> To: <blinux-list@redhat.com> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 11:46 Subject: Re: looking for... > > > -- > Bill Gaughan > wgaughan@snet.net > > > On Mon, 26 Nov 2001, Dave Mielke wrote: > > > [quoted lines by Bill Gaughan on November 26, 2001, at 10:05] > > > > >The grade 2 translator for ScreenPower Braille (which employs a version of > > >Duxbury) translates the whole screen at once. What I think it does is > > >translates the information in the VersaBraille's buffer. I think what you > > >want to do is translate everything in the brltty buffer at once, so, when > > >the reader hits the advance buttons, the next display would be in grade > > >two until the feature was turned off. > > > > What about formatting? Does it fill each line by picking up the beginning of > > the next line to fill out the end of the previous, now shorter, previous line, > > or does it leave each line as an atomic element? What about left margin > > indentation? > > > It leaves the rest of the lines blank, but, since most lines would be over > 40 characters anyway, (the standard braille line length on paper), you > wouldn't have to reformat the buffer by starting a new print line on the > same braille line of the previous print line just because there was room > left on the new braille line. That would get too messy and I think, it > would be too hard to program. The only reformatting you would want to do, > and this is not a requirement really, might be to use two spaces instead > of five spaces for a new paragraph. And you could delete blank lines from > the display buffer when translating. Maybe brltty could have two buffers, > a computer braille buffer and a grade two buffer. Also, I think you would > want this feature to be a plug-in compatible option like the synthesizer > drivers or make it library code. Maybe you could borrow code from nfbtrans > package or turbo-braille code that was ported to linux. > > just some thoughts. I am not a C++ programmer. I was a COBOL programmer > until three years ago, though. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Blinux-list mailing list > Blinux-list@redhat.com > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Grade 2 for Brltty (was looking for... ` Grade 2 for Brltty (was " John J. Boyer @ ` Bill Gaughan ` Dave Mielke ` John J. Boyer 0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Bill Gaughan @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: blinux-list John, The problem of translating only enough text to fill the display at one time is this. You would be unable to continuously read grade two text without having to always toggle back to computer braille, advance the display, then toggle back to grade two, then toggle back to computer braille, then advance the display then toggle back to grade two braille, etc. This would be really annoying and would, in my opinion render grade two braille in brltty useless. doing all that toggle switching every time you advanced the display would be too time consuming and useless. Unless, of course, I am misunderstanding you. When you say the display, do you really mean the brltty screen buffer? If you do, then I agree. You would really need to translate whatever goes into the brltty screen buffer as text is filled into it or take snapshots of it every so often or whenever a key is presses on the keyboard or whenever a braille keypad key is presses. I am not sure. I am not a programmer, and do not know how difficult it would be. But, if TeleSensory did it using Duxbury's view2.exe program with spb.exe for the PowerBraille, then I know it is doable. It's just a suggestion, because, one of the things we all know is wrong with computer braille is that when reading English text for long periods of time on the net, like a book or magazine or long web page of text, speech is sometimes faster than braille, especially one-to-one braille. Grade two has a more natural feel to most blind people who read braille. -- Bill Gaughan wgaughan@snet.net On Mon, 26 Nov 2001, John J. Boyer wrote: > Bill, > I agree with most of these ideas. However, I think that only enough to fill > the display should be trranslated at one time. I also think that a > translation module should be built into brltty and that the needs of various > languages should be taken care of with translation tables, which could be > selected as text tables are now. The Grade 2 translation tables would be in > a form that could be edited by the user, although translation tables for > each language owould be provided as part of the package. > I have a Grade 2 translation routine written in C which could be adapted, or > some code could be taken from nfbtrans. It would depend on which algorithm > is faster. > John > > Computers to Help People, Inc. > http://www.chpi.org > 825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill Gaughan" <wgaughan@snet.net> > To: <blinux-list@redhat.com> > Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 11:46 > Subject: Re: looking for... > > > > > > > > -- > > Bill Gaughan > > wgaughan@snet.net > > > > > > On Mon, 26 Nov 2001, Dave Mielke wrote: > > > > > [quoted lines by Bill Gaughan on November 26, 2001, at 10:05] > > > > > > >The grade 2 translator for ScreenPower Braille (which employs a version > of > > > >Duxbury) translates the whole screen at once. What I think it does is > > > >translates the information in the VersaBraille's buffer. I think what > you > > > >want to do is translate everything in the brltty buffer at once, so, > when > > > >the reader hits the advance buttons, the next display would be in grade > > > >two until the feature was turned off. > > > > > > What about formatting? Does it fill each line by picking up the > beginning of > > > the next line to fill out the end of the previous, now shorter, previous > line, > > > or does it leave each line as an atomic element? What about left margin > > > indentation? > > > > > It leaves the rest of the lines blank, but, since most lines would be over > > 40 characters anyway, (the standard braille line length on paper), you > > wouldn't have to reformat the buffer by starting a new print line on the > > same braille line of the previous print line just because there was room > > left on the new braille line. That would get too messy and I think, it > > would be too hard to program. The only reformatting you would want to do, > > and this is not a requirement really, might be to use two spaces instead > > of five spaces for a new paragraph. And you could delete blank lines from > > the display buffer when translating. Maybe brltty could have two buffers, > > a computer braille buffer and a grade two buffer. Also, I think you would > > want this feature to be a plug-in compatible option like the synthesizer > > drivers or make it library code. Maybe you could borrow code from nfbtrans > > package or turbo-braille code that was ported to linux. > > > > just some thoughts. I am not a C++ programmer. I was a COBOL programmer > > until three years ago, though. > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Blinux-list mailing list > > Blinux-list@redhat.com > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Blinux-list mailing list > Blinux-list@redhat.com > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Grade 2 for Brltty (was looking for... ` Bill Gaughan @ ` Dave Mielke ` John J. Boyer 1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Dave Mielke @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: blinux-list [quoted lines by Bill Gaughan on November 26, 2001, at 13:08] >The problem of translating only enough text to fill the display at one >time is this. You would be unable to continuously read grade two text >without having to always toggle back to computer braille, advance the >display, then toggle back to grade two, then toggle back to computer >braille, then advance the display then toggle back to grade two braille, >etc. This would be really annoying and would, in my opinion render grade >two braille in brltty useless. No, it wouldn't be that complicated at all. BRLTTY would simply translate as necessary, i.e. each time the braille window is refreshed or moved. We'd just need to ensure that the translation routine is fast enough so as to be as close to unnoticeable as possible. -- Dave Mielke | 2213 Fox Crescent | I believe that the Bible is the Phone: 1-613-726-0014 | Ottawa, Ontario | Word of God. Please contact me EMail: dave@mielke.cc | Canada K2A 1H7 | if you're concerned about Hell. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* Re: Grade 2 for Brltty (was looking for... ` Bill Gaughan ` Dave Mielke @ ` John J. Boyer 1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: John J. Boyer @ UTC (permalink / raw) To: blinux-list Bill, Whether or not Grade 2 translation is to be used would be tetermined by a variable within brltty. When this variable indicates Grade 2, then pressing the advance bar would cause the next segment of the line to be translated and displayed. It wouldn't be necessary to toggle back and forth each time you pressed the advance bar. Certainly translating the whole screen at once is doable, but as Dave pointed out, it could be a lot of unnecessary work, since the screen might change before we got to read it. The way TSI implemented their Grade 2 is not necessarily the best way to do it. Hope this helps. John Computers to Help People, Inc. http://www.chpi.org 825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Gaughan" <wgaughan@snet.net> To: <blinux-list@redhat.com> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 13:08 Subject: Re: Grade 2 for Brltty (was looking for... > John, > > The problem of translating only enough text to fill the display at one > time is this. You would be unable to continuously read grade two text > without having to always toggle back to computer braille, advance the > display, then toggle back to grade two, then toggle back to computer > braille, then advance the display then toggle back to grade two braille, > etc. This would be really annoying and would, in my opinion render grade > two braille in brltty useless. doing all that toggle switching every time > you advanced the display would be too time consuming and useless. Unless, > of course, I am misunderstanding you. When you say the display, do you > really mean the brltty screen buffer? If you do, then I agree. You would > really need to translate whatever goes into the brltty screen buffer as > text is filled into it or take snapshots of it every so often or whenever > a key is presses on the keyboard or whenever a braille keypad key is > presses. I am not sure. I am not a programmer, and do not know how > difficult it would be. But, if TeleSensory did it using Duxbury's > view2.exe program with spb.exe for the PowerBraille, then I know it is > doable. It's just a suggestion, because, one of the things we all know is > wrong with computer braille is that when reading English text for long > periods of time on the net, like a book or magazine or long web page of > text, speech is sometimes faster than braille, especially one-to-one > braille. Grade two has a more natural feel to most blind people who read > braille. > > -- > Bill Gaughan > wgaughan@snet.net > > > On Mon, 26 Nov 2001, John J. Boyer wrote: > > > Bill, > > I agree with most of these ideas. However, I think that only enough to fill > > the display should be trranslated at one time. I also think that a > > translation module should be built into brltty and that the needs of various > > languages should be taken care of with translation tables, which could be > > selected as text tables are now. The Grade 2 translation tables would be in > > a form that could be edited by the user, although translation tables for > > each language owould be provided as part of the package. > > I have a Grade 2 translation routine written in C which could be adapted, or > > some code could be taken from nfbtrans. It would depend on which algorithm > > is faster. > > John > > > > Computers to Help People, Inc. > > http://www.chpi.org > > 825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703 > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Bill Gaughan" <wgaughan@snet.net> > > To: <blinux-list@redhat.com> > > Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 11:46 > > Subject: Re: looking for... > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Bill Gaughan > > > wgaughan@snet.net > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 26 Nov 2001, Dave Mielke wrote: > > > > > > > [quoted lines by Bill Gaughan on November 26, 2001, at 10:05] > > > > > > > > >The grade 2 translator for ScreenPower Braille (which employs a version > > of > > > > >Duxbury) translates the whole screen at once. What I think it does is > > > > >translates the information in the VersaBraille's buffer. I think what > > you > > > > >want to do is translate everything in the brltty buffer at once, so, > > when > > > > >the reader hits the advance buttons, the next display would be in grade > > > > >two until the feature was turned off. > > > > > > > > What about formatting? Does it fill each line by picking up the > > beginning of > > > > the next line to fill out the end of the previous, now shorter, previous > > line, > > > > or does it leave each line as an atomic element? What about left margin > > > > indentation? > > > > > > > It leaves the rest of the lines blank, but, since most lines would be over > > > 40 characters anyway, (the standard braille line length on paper), you > > > wouldn't have to reformat the buffer by starting a new print line on the > > > same braille line of the previous print line just because there was room > > > left on the new braille line. That would get too messy and I think, it > > > would be too hard to program. The only reformatting you would want to do, > > > and this is not a requirement really, might be to use two spaces instead > > > of five spaces for a new paragraph. And you could delete blank lines from > > > the display buffer when translating. Maybe brltty could have two buffers, > > > a computer braille buffer and a grade two buffer. Also, I think you would > > > want this feature to be a plug-in compatible option like the synthesizer > > > drivers or make it library code. Maybe you could borrow code from nfbtrans > > > package or turbo-braille code that was ported to linux. > > > > > > just some thoughts. I am not a C++ programmer. I was a COBOL programmer > > > until three years ago, though. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Blinux-list mailing list > > > Blinux-list@redhat.com > > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Blinux-list mailing list > > Blinux-list@redhat.com > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Blinux-list mailing list > Blinux-list@redhat.com > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
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looking for lobap
` Jacek Zadrozny
` Bill Gaughan
` Dave Mielke
` Grade 2 and Brltty (was " John J. Boyer
` Bill Gaughan
` Grade 2 for Brltty (was " John J. Boyer
` Bill Gaughan
` Dave Mielke
` John J. Boyer
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