linux, backing up, jazz drives and others question

linux, backing up, jazz drives and others question

[brent harding]

			How easy is it to use debian 2.2 potato with various backup drives,
jazz, tape, etc? The jazz drive howto looks quite easy to set up, does it
work fairly well? How expensive are the cartridges for it? I rarely heard
of what it was until I looked for a howto and passed it on the way. Does it
get autodetected when you have it hooked to a scsi card? If so, which is
the best controller to use under linux. I'm not real technically inclined
to know what's compatible with which driver, but I'd like to be able to
make a backup of my system. CD is out of the question because my cd-burner
is usb, which isn't yet supported. Finally, will the jazz drive work in
linux with a laptop?
That ftape thing seemed kind of misleading. I thought the adaptec scsi
cards work in linux, or not all of them?
Thanks.

serial port real versus effective speeds

[A. R. Vener]

Hi,

I'm giving emacspeak a rest for now after many long
and frustrating hours with it. For me the learning
curve is not worth the loss of productiveity I'd have 
to endure until I figure out all its idiosyncrasies.

I've finally set up my Caldera system to use a serial
port to connect to a DOS box running Telix and Vocal Eyes.

After several false starts this process finally boiled down
to the following step:

Edit the /etc/inittab file and add this line after the
existing getty lines:

s7:2345:respawn:/sbin/getty /dev/cua0 default vt100

s7 is just a unique tag name I picked basically out of the blue, I was going
  to use s0 until I discovered another inittab line used it during startup.

default - is the name of an entry in /etc/gettytab, this is where
  the serial port parameters such as baud rate is set.
vt100 - termcap entry



This seems to work. For some reason I haven't yet figured out, the
/dev/ttys0 device does not work, although all the documentation I've
read said to use ttys0 for DOS com1 and ttys1 for DOS COM2. 
Does anyone know why this is so?  I stumbled across the 
/dev/cua0 device name when I was reading the setserial manual
page.


This brings me to another problem.  Although I can set the Linux
port and Telix ports to the same speeds and everything works, there
seems to be some sort of delay introduced which reduces the 
effective transfer rate to under 9600 baud.  This happens regardless
of the actual speed to which I set the serial ports. It is obvious that
the ports are using the correct bit rates since  I only get the login prompts
and a working connection if I match Telix and to the Linux serial port. But
even at 38400 a screen refresh takes several seconds.  Has   Has  anyone 
encountered this problem and fixed it?

Also, is there a way to set up Linux so that it uses the serial port as 
its console during boot?  I'd like to be able to trap the boot up messages.

Thanks,

Rudy

Re: serial port real versus effective speeds

[Neil Graham]

Rudy,

On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, A. R. Vener wrote:

> This seems to work. For some reason I haven't yet figured out, the
> /dev/ttys0 device does not work, although all the documentation I've
> read said to use ttys0 for DOS com1 and ttys1 for DOS COM2. 

You've used a lowercase s when referring to the /dev/ttys* devices in your
e-mail message.  This might be the problem:  should be /dev/ttyS0
(uppercase s) etc.  

Cheers,
Neil

Re: linux, backing up, jazz drives and others question

[Janina Sajka]

Brent, you're calling them "backup" drives, but that is simply not
correct. A "backup" is one kind of use you can put a Jazz or an Orb drive
to, but it is far more than that. For example, you can simply store files
on them.

How easy is to use them?

Very easy. They're just another drive designation.


On Sun, 25 Jun 2000, brent harding wrote:

> 			How easy is it to use debian 2.2 potato with various backup drives,
> jazz, tape, etc? The jazz drive howto looks quite easy to set up, does it
> work fairly well? How expensive are the cartridges for it? I rarely heard
> of what it was until I looked for a howto and passed it on the way. Does it
> get autodetected when you have it hooked to a scsi card? If so, which is
> the best controller to use under linux. I'm not real technically inclined
> to know what's compatible with which driver, but I'd like to be able to
> make a backup of my system. CD is out of the question because my cd-burner
> is usb, which isn't yet supported. Finally, will the jazz drive work in
> linux with a laptop?
> That ftape thing seemed kind of misleading. I thought the adaptec scsi
> cards work in linux, or not all of them?
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> ---
> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> with subject line: unsubscribe
> 
> 

-- 

				Janina Sajka, Director
				Information Systems Research & Development
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

janina@afb.net

Re: linux, backing up, jazz drives and others question

[Brent Harding]

	Wow, cool. How expensive are the disks for these drives? I thought it'd be easier than a tape drive because tape involves a lot of work to set up before things work.
I thought these were easy. Don't you have to enter all kinds of scsi id's and junk in to files? It's just hard to know what's compatible in linux, I heard not all adapters are.


*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 6/26/00 at 1:55 PM Janina Sajka wrote:

>Brent, you're calling them "backup" drives, but that is simply not
>correct. A "backup" is one kind of use you can put a Jazz or an Orb drive
>to, but it is far more than that. For example, you can simply store files
>on them.
>
>How easy is to use them?
>
>Very easy. They're just another drive designation.
>
>
>On Sun, 25 Jun 2000, brent harding wrote:
>
>> 			How easy is it to use debian 2.2 potato with various backup drives,
>> jazz, tape, etc? The jazz drive howto looks quite easy to set up, does it
>> work fairly well? How expensive are the cartridges for it? I rarely heard
>> of what it was until I looked for a howto and passed it on the way. Does it
>> get autodetected when you have it hooked to a scsi card? If so, which is
>> the best controller to use under linux. I'm not real technically inclined
>> to know what's compatible with which driver, but I'd like to be able to
>> make a backup of my system. CD is out of the question because my cd-burner
>> is usb, which isn't yet supported. Finally, will the jazz drive work in
>> linux with a laptop?
>> That ftape thing seemed kind of misleading. I thought the adaptec scsi
>> cards work in linux, or not all of them?
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> with subject line: unsubscribe
>>
>>
>
>--
>
>				Janina Sajka, Director
>				Information Systems Research & Development
>				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
>janina@afb.net
>
>
>---
>Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>with subject line: unsubscribe

Re: linux, backing up, jazz drives and others question

[Janina Sajka]

Hi:

Media for Jazz drives was around $100 for the 2 gig units, last I
looked. Media for the Orb is around $40, which is part of it's attraction.

I have found the configuration pretty straight forward--but that's because
I had some help doing it. If memory serves, the RedHat distro can discover
and configure pretty much on its own. Of course, your mileage may vary,
but in no way are these more cumbersome than tape drives. No way on that
score.


On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:

> 	Wow, cool. How expensive are the disks for these drives? I thought it'd be easier than a tape drive because tape involves a lot of work to set up before things work.
> I thought these were easy. Don't you have to enter all kinds of scsi id's and junk in to files? It's just hard to know what's compatible in linux, I heard not all adapters are.
> 
> 
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> 
> On 6/26/00 at 1:55 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
> 
> >Brent, you're calling them "backup" drives, but that is simply not
> >correct. A "backup" is one kind of use you can put a Jazz or an Orb drive
> >to, but it is far more than that. For example, you can simply store files
> >on them.
> >
> >How easy is to use them?
> >
> >Very easy. They're just another drive designation.
> >
> >
> >On Sun, 25 Jun 2000, brent harding wrote:
> >
> >> 			How easy is it to use debian 2.2 potato with various backup drives,
> >> jazz, tape, etc? The jazz drive howto looks quite easy to set up, does it
> >> work fairly well? How expensive are the cartridges for it? I rarely heard
> >> of what it was until I looked for a howto and passed it on the way. Does it
> >> get autodetected when you have it hooked to a scsi card? If so, which is
> >> the best controller to use under linux. I'm not real technically inclined
> >> to know what's compatible with which driver, but I'd like to be able to
> >> make a backup of my system. CD is out of the question because my cd-burner
> >> is usb, which isn't yet supported. Finally, will the jazz drive work in
> >> linux with a laptop?
> >> That ftape thing seemed kind of misleading. I thought the adaptec scsi
> >> cards work in linux, or not all of them?
> >> Thanks.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> ---
> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
> >> 
> >> 
> >
> >-- 
> >
> >				Janina Sajka, Director
> >				Information Systems Research & Development
> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> >janina@afb.net
> >
> >
> >---
> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >with subject line: unsubscribe
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> with subject line: unsubscribe
> 
> 

-- 

				Janina Sajka, Director
				Information Systems Research & Development
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

janina@afb.net

Re: linux, backing up, jazz drives and others question

[Brent Harding]

	Oh, how much does the orb drive store? I use debian 2.2, do you just recompile the kernel with scsi support in, and it works?


*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 6/26/00 at 4:30 PM Janina Sajka wrote:

>Hi:
>
>Media for Jazz drives was around $100 for the 2 gig units, last I
>looked. Media for the Orb is around $40, which is part of it's attraction.
>
>I have found the configuration pretty straight forward--but that's because
>I had some help doing it. If memory serves, the RedHat distro can discover
>and configure pretty much on its own. Of course, your mileage may vary,
>but in no way are these more cumbersome than tape drives. No way on that
>score.
>
>
>On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
>
>> 	Wow, cool. How expensive are the disks for these drives? I thought it'd be easier than a tape drive because tape involves a lot of work to set up before things work.
>> I thought these were easy. Don't you have to enter all kinds of scsi id's and junk in to files? It's just hard to know what's compatible in linux, I heard not all adapters are.
>>
>>
>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>>
>> On 6/26/00 at 1:55 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
>>
>> >Brent, you're calling them "backup" drives, but that is simply not
>> >correct. A "backup" is one kind of use you can put a Jazz or an Orb drive
>> >to, but it is far more than that. For example, you can simply store files
>> >on them.
>> >
>> >How easy is to use them?
>> >
>> >Very easy. They're just another drive designation.
>> >
>> >
>> >On Sun, 25 Jun 2000, brent harding wrote:
>> >
>> >> 			How easy is it to use debian 2.2 potato with various backup drives,
>> >> jazz, tape, etc? The jazz drive howto looks quite easy to set up, does it
>> >> work fairly well? How expensive are the cartridges for it? I rarely heard
>> >> of what it was until I looked for a howto and passed it on the way. Does it
>> >> get autodetected when you have it hooked to a scsi card? If so, which is
>> >> the best controller to use under linux. I'm not real technically inclined
>> >> to know what's compatible with which driver, but I'd like to be able to
>> >> make a backup of my system. CD is out of the question because my cd-burner
>> >> is usb, which isn't yet supported. Finally, will the jazz drive work in
>> >> linux with a laptop?
>> >> That ftape thing seemed kind of misleading. I thought the adaptec scsi
>> >> cards work in linux, or not all of them?
>> >> Thanks.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ---
>> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >--
>> >
>> >				Janina Sajka, Director
>> >				Information Systems Research & Development
>> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>> >
>> >janina@afb.net
>> >
>> >
>> >---
>> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >with subject line: unsubscribe
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> with subject line: unsubscribe
>>
>>
>
>--
>
>				Janina Sajka, Director
>				Information Systems Research & Development
>				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
>janina@afb.net
>
>
>---
>Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>with subject line: unsubscribe

Re: serial port real versus effective speeds

[James R. Van Zandt]

Rudy -

If your kernel was configured to support a serial console, you can
just add a kernel option like "console=ttyS1" to the lilo
configuration file or the loadlin command line.

If that doesn't work, you may need to reconfigure your kernel sources,
answering "yes" to the question "Support for console on serial port".
You also have to configure serial port support, of course (you can't
just load in a module).  Then, compile and install.

		   - Jim Van Zandt


>From: "A. R. Vener" <salt@aero-vision.com>
>Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 09:24:03 -0400 (EDT)
>
>Hi,
>
>I'm giving emacspeak a rest for now after many long
>and frustrating hours with it. For me the learning
>curve is not worth the loss of productiveity I'd have 
>to endure until I figure out all its idiosyncrasies.
>
>I've finally set up my Caldera system to use a serial
>port to connect to a DOS box running Telix and Vocal Eyes.
>
>After several false starts this process finally boiled down
>to the following step:
>
>Edit the /etc/inittab file and add this line after the
>existing getty lines:
>
>s7:2345:respawn:/sbin/getty /dev/cua0 default vt100
>
>s7 is just a unique tag name I picked basically out of the blue, I was going
>  to use s0 until I discovered another inittab line used it during startup.
>
>default - is the name of an entry in /etc/gettytab, this is where
>  the serial port parameters such as baud rate is set.
>vt100 - termcap entry
>
>
>
>This seems to work. For some reason I haven't yet figured out, the
>/dev/ttys0 device does not work, although all the documentation I've
>read said to use ttys0 for DOS com1 and ttys1 for DOS COM2. 
>Does anyone know why this is so?  I stumbled across the 
>/dev/cua0 device name when I was reading the setserial manual
>page.
>
>
>This brings me to another problem.  Although I can set the Linux
>port and Telix ports to the same speeds and everything works, there
>seems to be some sort of delay introduced which reduces the 
>effective transfer rate to under 9600 baud.  This happens regardless
>of the actual speed to which I set the serial ports. It is obvious that
>the ports are using the correct bit rates since  I only get the login prompts
>and a working connection if I match Telix and to the Linux serial port. But
>even at 38400 a screen refresh takes several seconds.  Has   Has  anyone 
>encountered this problem and fixed it?
>
>Also, is there a way to set up Linux so that it uses the serial port as 
>its console during boot?  I'd like to be able to trap the boot up messages.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Rudy

Re: linux, backing up, jazz drives and others question

[Janina Sajka]

The news is even better. I believe you have your choice of scsi, eide, or
usb models, and they all use cartridges that can store up to about 2
Gb. Not bad, imho.

Having said all this to you today, I'm sad to report that something has
gone awry with mine. Not the Orb or the media, something in my setup. It
was working the other day, now it's not. But I can access in Winblows
<groan>

					Janina


On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:

> 	Oh, how much does the orb drive store? I use debian 2.2, do you just recompile the kernel with scsi support in, and it works?
> 
> 
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> 
> On 6/26/00 at 4:30 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
> 
> >Hi:
> >
> >Media for Jazz drives was around $100 for the 2 gig units, last I
> >looked. Media for the Orb is around $40, which is part of it's attraction.
> >
> >I have found the configuration pretty straight forward--but that's because
> >I had some help doing it. If memory serves, the RedHat distro can discover
> >and configure pretty much on its own. Of course, your mileage may vary,
> >but in no way are these more cumbersome than tape drives. No way on that
> >score.
> >
> >
> >On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
> >
> >> 	Wow, cool. How expensive are the disks for these drives? I thought it'd be easier than a tape drive because tape involves a lot of work to set up before things work.
> >> I thought these were easy. Don't you have to enter all kinds of scsi id's and junk in to files? It's just hard to know what's compatible in linux, I heard not all adapters are.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> >> 
> >> On 6/26/00 at 1:55 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
> >> 
> >> >Brent, you're calling them "backup" drives, but that is simply not
> >> >correct. A "backup" is one kind of use you can put a Jazz or an Orb drive
> >> >to, but it is far more than that. For example, you can simply store files
> >> >on them.
> >> >
> >> >How easy is to use them?
> >> >
> >> >Very easy. They're just another drive designation.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >On Sun, 25 Jun 2000, brent harding wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> 			How easy is it to use debian 2.2 potato with various backup drives,
> >> >> jazz, tape, etc? The jazz drive howto looks quite easy to set up, does it
> >> >> work fairly well? How expensive are the cartridges for it? I rarely heard
> >> >> of what it was until I looked for a howto and passed it on the way. Does it
> >> >> get autodetected when you have it hooked to a scsi card? If so, which is
> >> >> the best controller to use under linux. I'm not real technically inclined
> >> >> to know what's compatible with which driver, but I'd like to be able to
> >> >> make a backup of my system. CD is out of the question because my cd-burner
> >> >> is usb, which isn't yet supported. Finally, will the jazz drive work in
> >> >> linux with a laptop?
> >> >> That ftape thing seemed kind of misleading. I thought the adaptec scsi
> >> >> cards work in linux, or not all of them?
> >> >> Thanks.
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> ---
> >> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >
> >> >-- 
> >> >
> >> >				Janina Sajka, Director
> >> >				Information Systems Research & Development
> >> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >> >
> >> >janina@afb.net
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >---
> >> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >> >with subject line: unsubscribe
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> ---
> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
> >> 
> >> 
> >
> >-- 
> >
> >				Janina Sajka, Director
> >				Information Systems Research & Development
> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> >janina@afb.net
> >
> >
> >---
> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >with subject line: unsubscribe
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> with subject line: unsubscribe
> 
> 

-- 

				Janina Sajka, Director
				Information Systems Research & Development
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

janina@afb.net

Re: serial port real versus effective speeds

[cstrobel]

You may want to check if "gpm" is running.  It is sometimes started as a
serial mouse driver among other things.  Maybe ps ax|grep gpm will work.


On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, A. R. Vener wrote:

> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'm giving emacspeak a rest for now after many long
> and frustrating hours with it. For me the learning
> curve is not worth the loss of productiveity I'd have 
> to endure until I figure out all its idiosyncrasies.
> 
> I've finally set up my Caldera system to use a serial
> port to connect to a DOS box running Telix and Vocal Eyes.
> 
> After several false starts this process finally boiled down
> to the following step:
> 
> Edit the /etc/inittab file and add this line after the
> existing getty lines:
> 
> s7:2345:respawn:/sbin/getty /dev/cua0 default vt100
> 
> s7 is just a unique tag name I picked basically out of the blue, I was going
>   to use s0 until I discovered another inittab line used it during startup.
> 
> default - is the name of an entry in /etc/gettytab, this is where
>   the serial port parameters such as baud rate is set.
> vt100 - termcap entry
> 
> 
> 
> This seems to work. For some reason I haven't yet figured out, the
> /dev/ttys0 device does not work, although all the documentation I've
> read said to use ttys0 for DOS com1 and ttys1 for DOS COM2. 
> Does anyone know why this is so?  I stumbled across the 
> /dev/cua0 device name when I was reading the setserial manual
> page.
> 
> 
> This brings me to another problem.  Although I can set the Linux
> port and Telix ports to the same speeds and everything works, there
> seems to be some sort of delay introduced which reduces the 
> effective transfer rate to under 9600 baud.  This happens regardless
> of the actual speed to which I set the serial ports. It is obvious that
> the ports are using the correct bit rates since  I only get the login prompts
> and a working connection if I match Telix and to the Linux serial port. But
> even at 38400 a screen refresh takes several seconds.  Has   Has  anyone 
> encountered this problem and fixed it?
> 
> Also, is there a way to set up Linux so that it uses the serial port as 
> its console during boot?  I'd like to be able to trap the boot up messages.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Rudy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> with subject line: unsubscribe
> 
> 

Re: linux, backing up, jazz drives and others question

[Brent Harding]

		Cool. The eide  ones are easiest to set up, right? I know usb is out of it if I'm going to use linux. What special features does this drive have? It still seems a not so bad for $40 for two gigs, I only have a 6 gig hard drive to back up. Do you have to use special drivers in linux, or does it just work on it's own? I don't know what kind of connectors remain to be used in my hard drive, I have an eide hard drive, and cd-rom that's actually atapi. Linux didn't tell me about empty slots though. Amazingly it told me the brand of hard drive I got, how cool, I never really knew that info before.


*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 6/26/00 at 9:40 PM Janina Sajka wrote:

>The news is even better. I believe you have your choice of scsi, eide, or
>usb models, and they all use cartridges that can store up to about 2
>Gb. Not bad, imho.
>
>Having said all this to you today, I'm sad to report that something has
>gone awry with mine. Not the Orb or the media, something in my setup. It
>was working the other day, now it's not. But I can access in Winblows
><groan>
>
>					Janina
>
>
>On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
>
>> 	Oh, how much does the orb drive store? I use debian 2.2, do you just recompile the kernel with scsi support in, and it works?
>>
>>
>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>>
>> On 6/26/00 at 4:30 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
>>
>> >Hi:
>> >
>> >Media for Jazz drives was around $100 for the 2 gig units, last I
>> >looked. Media for the Orb is around $40, which is part of it's attraction.
>> >
>> >I have found the configuration pretty straight forward--but that's because
>> >I had some help doing it. If memory serves, the RedHat distro can discover
>> >and configure pretty much on its own. Of course, your mileage may vary,
>> >but in no way are these more cumbersome than tape drives. No way on that
>> >score.
>> >
>> >
>> >On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
>> >
>> >> 	Wow, cool. How expensive are the disks for these drives? I thought it'd be easier than a tape drive because tape involves a lot of work to set up before things work.
>> >> I thought these were easy. Don't you have to enter all kinds of scsi id's and junk in to files? It's just hard to know what's compatible in linux, I heard not all adapters are.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>> >>
>> >> On 6/26/00 at 1:55 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Brent, you're calling them "backup" drives, but that is simply not
>> >> >correct. A "backup" is one kind of use you can put a Jazz or an Orb drive
>> >> >to, but it is far more than that. For example, you can simply store files
>> >> >on them.
>> >> >
>> >> >How easy is to use them?
>> >> >
>> >> >Very easy. They're just another drive designation.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >On Sun, 25 Jun 2000, brent harding wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> 			How easy is it to use debian 2.2 potato with various backup drives,
>> >> >> jazz, tape, etc? The jazz drive howto looks quite easy to set up, does it
>> >> >> work fairly well? How expensive are the cartridges for it? I rarely heard
>> >> >> of what it was until I looked for a howto and passed it on the way. Does it
>> >> >> get autodetected when you have it hooked to a scsi card? If so, which is
>> >> >> the best controller to use under linux. I'm not real technically inclined
>> >> >> to know what's compatible with which driver, but I'd like to be able to
>> >> >> make a backup of my system. CD is out of the question because my cd-burner
>> >> >> is usb, which isn't yet supported. Finally, will the jazz drive work in
>> >> >> linux with a laptop?
>> >> >> That ftape thing seemed kind of misleading. I thought the adaptec scsi
>> >> >> cards work in linux, or not all of them?
>> >> >> Thanks.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ---
>> >> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >--
>> >> >
>> >> >				Janina Sajka, Director
>> >> >				Information Systems Research & Development
>> >> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>> >> >
>> >> >janina@afb.net
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >---
>> >> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >> >with subject line: unsubscribe
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ---
>> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >--
>> >
>> >				Janina Sajka, Director
>> >				Information Systems Research & Development
>> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>> >
>> >janina@afb.net
>> >
>> >
>> >---
>> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >with subject line: unsubscribe
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> with subject line: unsubscribe
>>
>>
>
>--
>
>				Janina Sajka, Director
>				Information Systems Research & Development
>				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
>janina@afb.net
>
>
>---
>Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>with subject line: unsubscribe

Re: linux, backing up, jazz drives and others question

[Luke Davis]

Well: perhaps you have two IDE channels, in which case you want to put
both the CDROM drive and the new drive on the secondary, and leave the
first channel to harddrive(s) only.

Reall, you want this to be SCSI, as it will be quite a bit faster, and it
won't slow the cIDE channels down for other devices, such as the
harddrive, as the CDROM is doing.

On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:

> 		Cool. The eide  ones are easiest to set up, right? I know usb is out of it if I'm going to use linux. What special features does this drive have? It still seems a not so bad for $40 for two gigs, I only have a 6 gig hard drive to back up. Do you have to use special drivers in linux, or does it just work on it's own? I don't know what kind of connectors remain to be used in my hard drive, I have an eide hard drive, and cd-rom that's actually atapi. Linux didn't tell me about empty slots though. Amazingly it told me the brand of hard drive I got, how cool, I never really knew that info before.
> 
> 
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> 
> On 6/26/00 at 9:40 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
> 
> >The news is even better. I believe you have your choice of scsi, eide, or
> >usb models, and they all use cartridges that can store up to about 2
> >Gb. Not bad, imho.
> >
> >Having said all this to you today, I'm sad to report that something has
> >gone awry with mine. Not the Orb or the media, something in my setup. It
> >was working the other day, now it's not. But I can access in Winblows
> ><groan>
> >
> >					Janina
> >
> >
> >On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
> >
> >> 	Oh, how much does the orb drive store? I use debian 2.2, do you just recompile the kernel with scsi support in, and it works?
> >>
> >>
> >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> >>
> >> On 6/26/00 at 4:30 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
> >>
> >> >Hi:
> >> >
> >> >Media for Jazz drives was around $100 for the 2 gig units, last I
> >> >looked. Media for the Orb is around $40, which is part of it's attraction.
> >> >
> >> >I have found the configuration pretty straight forward--but that's because
> >> >I had some help doing it. If memory serves, the RedHat distro can discover
> >> >and configure pretty much on its own. Of course, your mileage may vary,
> >> >but in no way are these more cumbersome than tape drives. No way on that
> >> >score.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> 	Wow, cool. How expensive are the disks for these drives? I thought it'd be easier than a tape drive because tape involves a lot of work to set up before things work.
> >> >> I thought these were easy. Don't you have to enter all kinds of scsi id's and junk in to files? It's just hard to know what's compatible in linux, I heard not all adapters are.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> >> >>
> >> >> On 6/26/00 at 1:55 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Brent, you're calling them "backup" drives, but that is simply not
> >> >> >correct. A "backup" is one kind of use you can put a Jazz or an Orb drive
> >> >> >to, but it is far more than that. For example, you can simply store files
> >> >> >on them.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >How easy is to use them?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Very easy. They're just another drive designation.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >On Sun, 25 Jun 2000, brent harding wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> 			How easy is it to use debian 2.2 potato with various backup drives,
> >> >> >> jazz, tape, etc? The jazz drive howto looks quite easy to set up, does it
> >> >> >> work fairly well? How expensive are the cartridges for it? I rarely heard
> >> >> >> of what it was until I looked for a howto and passed it on the way. Does it
> >> >> >> get autodetected when you have it hooked to a scsi card? If so, which is
> >> >> >> the best controller to use under linux. I'm not real technically inclined
> >> >> >> to know what's compatible with which driver, but I'd like to be able to
> >> >> >> make a backup of my system. CD is out of the question because my cd-burner
> >> >> >> is usb, which isn't yet supported. Finally, will the jazz drive work in
> >> >> >> linux with a laptop?
> >> >> >> That ftape thing seemed kind of misleading. I thought the adaptec scsi
> >> >> >> cards work in linux, or not all of them?
> >> >> >> Thanks.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> ---
> >> >> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >> >> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >> >> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >> >> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >> >> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >--
> >> >> >
> >> >> >				Janina Sajka, Director
> >> >> >				Information Systems Research & Development
> >> >> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >> >> >
> >> >> >janina@afb.net
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >---
> >> >> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >> >> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >> >> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >> >> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >> >> >with subject line: unsubscribe
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ---
> >> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >--
> >> >
> >> >				Janina Sajka, Director
> >> >				Information Systems Research & Development
> >> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >> >
> >> >janina@afb.net
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >---
> >> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >> >with subject line: unsubscribe
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---
> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
> >>
> >>
> >
> >--
> >
> >				Janina Sajka, Director
> >				Information Systems Research & Development
> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> >janina@afb.net
> >
> >
> >---
> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >with subject line: unsubscribe
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> with subject line: unsubscribe
> 
> 

-- 
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's
character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln

Re: linux, backing up, jazz drives and others question

[Luke Davis]

I might add that this subject is normally considered off-topic for this
list, and you might want to move it to linux-l@softcon.com, where it would
be on topic.

Luke

-- 
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's
character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln

Re: linux, backing up, jazz drives and others question

[Janina Sajka]

Hi, Brent:

You are correct about USB under Linux, but only until the 2.4 kernels come
out and that's not very far in the future. I mention this again because
one thing to consider is that these units are very portable, but the EIDE,
if memory serves, the EIDE Orb is an internal (not parallel port) device,
so not portable.

I believe the price of the units is somewhere around $300, though one can
probably find them for less. The web site for the Castlewood Orb is
http://www.castlewood.com. On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:

As for what tools to use under Linux for backups -- the old reliable, of
course. tar, gunzip, and now bz2.

You will want to think through a good backup strategy, i.e. perhaps
separating your /root and /usr and /etc tar archives from /home -- where
the data changes more frequently. 

> 		Cool. The eide  ones are easiest to set up, right? I know usb is out of it if I'm going to use linux. What special features does this drive have? It still seems a not so bad for $40 for two gigs, I only have a 6 gig hard drive to back up. Do you have to use special drivers in linux, or does it just work on it's own? I don't know what kind of connectors remain to be used in my hard drive, I have an eide hard drive, and cd-rom that's actually atapi. Linux didn't tell me about empty slots though. Amazingly it told me the brand of hard drive I got, how cool, I never really knew that info before.
> 
> 
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> 
> On 6/26/00 at 9:40 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
> 
> >The news is even better. I believe you have your choice of scsi, eide, or
> >usb models, and they all use cartridges that can store up to about 2
> >Gb. Not bad, imho.
> >
> >Having said all this to you today, I'm sad to report that something has
> >gone awry with mine. Not the Orb or the media, something in my setup. It
> >was working the other day, now it's not. But I can access in Winblows
> ><groan>
> >
> >					Janina
> >
> >
> >On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
> >
> >> 	Oh, how much does the orb drive store? I use debian 2.2, do you just recompile the kernel with scsi support in, and it works?
> >> 
> >> 
> >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> >> 
> >> On 6/26/00 at 4:30 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
> >> 
> >> >Hi:
> >> >
> >> >Media for Jazz drives was around $100 for the 2 gig units, last I
> >> >looked. Media for the Orb is around $40, which is part of it's attraction.
> >> >
> >> >I have found the configuration pretty straight forward--but that's because
> >> >I had some help doing it. If memory serves, the RedHat distro can discover
> >> >and configure pretty much on its own. Of course, your mileage may vary,
> >> >but in no way are these more cumbersome than tape drives. No way on that
> >> >score.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> 	Wow, cool. How expensive are the disks for these drives? I thought it'd be easier than a tape drive because tape involves a lot of work to set up before things work.
> >> >> I thought these were easy. Don't you have to enter all kinds of scsi id's and junk in to files? It's just hard to know what's compatible in linux, I heard not all adapters are.
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> >> >> 
> >> >> On 6/26/00 at 1:55 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
> >> >> 
> >> >> >Brent, you're calling them "backup" drives, but that is simply not
> >> >> >correct. A "backup" is one kind of use you can put a Jazz or an Orb drive
> >> >> >to, but it is far more than that. For example, you can simply store files
> >> >> >on them.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >How easy is to use them?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Very easy. They're just another drive designation.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >On Sun, 25 Jun 2000, brent harding wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> 			How easy is it to use debian 2.2 potato with various backup drives,
> >> >> >> jazz, tape, etc? The jazz drive howto looks quite easy to set up, does it
> >> >> >> work fairly well? How expensive are the cartridges for it? I rarely heard
> >> >> >> of what it was until I looked for a howto and passed it on the way. Does it
> >> >> >> get autodetected when you have it hooked to a scsi card? If so, which is
> >> >> >> the best controller to use under linux. I'm not real technically inclined
> >> >> >> to know what's compatible with which driver, but I'd like to be able to
> >> >> >> make a backup of my system. CD is out of the question because my cd-burner
> >> >> >> is usb, which isn't yet supported. Finally, will the jazz drive work in
> >> >> >> linux with a laptop?
> >> >> >> That ftape thing seemed kind of misleading. I thought the adaptec scsi
> >> >> >> cards work in linux, or not all of them?
> >> >> >> Thanks.
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> ---
> >> >> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >> >> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >> >> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >> >> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >> >> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >
> >> >> >-- 
> >> >> >
> >> >> >				Janina Sajka, Director
> >> >> >				Information Systems Research & Development
> >> >> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >> >> >
> >> >> >janina@afb.net
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >---
> >> >> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >> >> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >> >> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >> >> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >> >> >with subject line: unsubscribe
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> ---
> >> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >
> >> >-- 
> >> >
> >> >				Janina Sajka, Director
> >> >				Information Systems Research & Development
> >> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >> >
> >> >janina@afb.net
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >---
> >> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >> >with subject line: unsubscribe
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> ---
> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
> >> 
> >> 
> >
> >-- 
> >
> >				Janina Sajka, Director
> >				Information Systems Research & Development
> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> >janina@afb.net
> >
> >
> >---
> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >with subject line: unsubscribe
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> with subject line: unsubscribe
> 
> 

-- 

				Janina Sajka, Director
				Information Systems Research & Development
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

janina@afb.net

Re: linux, backing up, jazz drives and others question

[Janina Sajka]

Luke:

You are correct that one should check out the data transfer rate in
devices like the Orb. I remember doing this before getting mine. It
convinced me to wait for the external scsi Orb to come to market because
it had a significantly faster throughput than the usb model. I already
knew I wanted an external unit because I wanted the portability.



On Tue, 27 Jun 2000, Luke Davis wrote:

> Well: perhaps you have two IDE channels, in which case you want to put
> both the CDROM drive and the new drive on the secondary, and leave the
> first channel to harddrive(s) only.
> 
> Reall, you want this to be SCSI, as it will be quite a bit faster, and it
> won't slow the cIDE channels down for other devices, such as the
> harddrive, as the CDROM is doing.
> 
> On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
> 
> > 		Cool. The eide  ones are easiest to set up, right? I know usb is out of it if I'm going to use linux. What special features does this drive have? It still seems a not so bad for $40 for two gigs, I only have a 6 gig hard drive to back up. Do you have to use special drivers in linux, or does it just work on it's own? I don't know what kind of connectors remain to be used in my hard drive, I have an eide hard drive, and cd-rom that's actually atapi. Linux didn't tell me about empty slots though. Amazingly it told me the brand of hard drive I got, how cool, I never really knew that info before.
> > 
> > 
> > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> > 
> > On 6/26/00 at 9:40 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
> > 
> > >The news is even better. I believe you have your choice of scsi, eide, or
> > >usb models, and they all use cartridges that can store up to about 2
> > >Gb. Not bad, imho.
> > >
> > >Having said all this to you today, I'm sad to report that something has
> > >gone awry with mine. Not the Orb or the media, something in my setup. It
> > >was working the other day, now it's not. But I can access in Winblows
> > ><groan>
> > >
> > >					Janina
> > >
> > >
> > >On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
> > >
> > >> 	Oh, how much does the orb drive store? I use debian 2.2, do you just recompile the kernel with scsi support in, and it works?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> > >>
> > >> On 6/26/00 at 4:30 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >Hi:
> > >> >
> > >> >Media for Jazz drives was around $100 for the 2 gig units, last I
> > >> >looked. Media for the Orb is around $40, which is part of it's attraction.
> > >> >
> > >> >I have found the configuration pretty straight forward--but that's because
> > >> >I had some help doing it. If memory serves, the RedHat distro can discover
> > >> >and configure pretty much on its own. Of course, your mileage may vary,
> > >> >but in no way are these more cumbersome than tape drives. No way on that
> > >> >score.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> 	Wow, cool. How expensive are the disks for these drives? I thought it'd be easier than a tape drive because tape involves a lot of work to set up before things work.
> > >> >> I thought these were easy. Don't you have to enter all kinds of scsi id's and junk in to files? It's just hard to know what's compatible in linux, I heard not all adapters are.
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> > >> >>
> > >> >> On 6/26/00 at 1:55 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> >Brent, you're calling them "backup" drives, but that is simply not
> > >> >> >correct. A "backup" is one kind of use you can put a Jazz or an Orb drive
> > >> >> >to, but it is far more than that. For example, you can simply store files
> > >> >> >on them.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >How easy is to use them?
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >Very easy. They're just another drive designation.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >On Sun, 25 Jun 2000, brent harding wrote:
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >> 			How easy is it to use debian 2.2 potato with various backup drives,
> > >> >> >> jazz, tape, etc? The jazz drive howto looks quite easy to set up, does it
> > >> >> >> work fairly well? How expensive are the cartridges for it? I rarely heard
> > >> >> >> of what it was until I looked for a howto and passed it on the way. Does it
> > >> >> >> get autodetected when you have it hooked to a scsi card? If so, which is
> > >> >> >> the best controller to use under linux. I'm not real technically inclined
> > >> >> >> to know what's compatible with which driver, but I'd like to be able to
> > >> >> >> make a backup of my system. CD is out of the question because my cd-burner
> > >> >> >> is usb, which isn't yet supported. Finally, will the jazz drive work in
> > >> >> >> linux with a laptop?
> > >> >> >> That ftape thing seemed kind of misleading. I thought the adaptec scsi
> > >> >> >> cards work in linux, or not all of them?
> > >> >> >> Thanks.
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >> ---
> > >> >> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> > >> >> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> > >> >> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> > >> >> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> > >> >> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >>
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >--
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >				Janina Sajka, Director
> > >> >> >				Information Systems Research & Development
> > >> >> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >janina@afb.net
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >---
> > >> >> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> > >> >> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> > >> >> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> > >> >> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> > >> >> >with subject line: unsubscribe
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> ---
> > >> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> > >> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> > >> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> > >> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> > >> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> >--
> > >> >
> > >> >				Janina Sajka, Director
> > >> >				Information Systems Research & Development
> > >> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > >> >
> > >> >janina@afb.net
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >---
> > >> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> > >> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> > >> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> > >> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> > >> >with subject line: unsubscribe
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ---
> > >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> > >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> > >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> > >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> > >> with subject line: unsubscribe
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >--
> > >
> > >				Janina Sajka, Director
> > >				Information Systems Research & Development
> > >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> > >
> > >janina@afb.net
> > >
> > >
> > >---
> > >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> > >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> > >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> > >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> > >with subject line: unsubscribe
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ---
> > Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> > Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> > Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> > To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> > with subject line: unsubscribe
> > 
> > 
> 
> 

-- 

				Janina Sajka, Director
				Information Systems Research & Development
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

janina@afb.net

Re: linux, backing up, jazz drives and others question

[Brent Harding]

Do they have external eide models? To my knowledge I don't think I have a scsi adapter in my computer. How would I use a scsi orb with a laptop if I did get one?


*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 6/27/00 at 9:58 AM Janina Sajka wrote:

>Luke:
>
>You are correct that one should check out the data transfer rate in
>devices like the Orb. I remember doing this before getting mine. It
>convinced me to wait for the external scsi Orb to come to market because
>it had a significantly faster throughput than the usb model. I already
>knew I wanted an external unit because I wanted the portability.
>
>
>
>On Tue, 27 Jun 2000, Luke Davis wrote:
>
>> Well: perhaps you have two IDE channels, in which case you want to put
>> both the CDROM drive and the new drive on the secondary, and leave the
>> first channel to harddrive(s) only.
>>
>> Reall, you want this to be SCSI, as it will be quite a bit faster, and it
>> won't slow the cIDE channels down for other devices, such as the
>> harddrive, as the CDROM is doing.
>>
>> On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
>>
>> > 		Cool. The eide  ones are easiest to set up, right? I know usb is out of it if I'm going to use linux. What special features does this drive have? It still seems a not so bad for $40 for two gigs, I only have a 6 gig hard drive to back up. Do you have to use special drivers in linux, or does it just work on it's own? I don't know what kind of connectors remain to be used in my hard drive, I have an eide hard drive, and cd-rom that's actually atapi. Linux didn't tell me about empty slots though. Amazingly it told me the brand of hard drive I got, how cool, I never really knew that info before.
>> >
>> >
>> > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>> >
>> > On 6/26/00 at 9:40 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
>> >
>> > >The news is even better. I believe you have your choice of scsi, eide, or
>> > >usb models, and they all use cartridges that can store up to about 2
>> > >Gb. Not bad, imho.
>> > >
>> > >Having said all this to you today, I'm sad to report that something has
>> > >gone awry with mine. Not the Orb or the media, something in my setup. It
>> > >was working the other day, now it's not. But I can access in Winblows
>> > ><groan>
>> > >
>> > >					Janina
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> 	Oh, how much does the orb drive store? I use debian 2.2, do you just recompile the kernel with scsi support in, and it works?
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>> > >>
>> > >> On 6/26/00 at 4:30 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> >Hi:
>> > >> >
>> > >> >Media for Jazz drives was around $100 for the 2 gig units, last I
>> > >> >looked. Media for the Orb is around $40, which is part of it's attraction.
>> > >> >
>> > >> >I have found the configuration pretty straight forward--but that's because
>> > >> >I had some help doing it. If memory serves, the RedHat distro can discover
>> > >> >and configure pretty much on its own. Of course, your mileage may vary,
>> > >> >but in no way are these more cumbersome than tape drives. No way on that
>> > >> >score.
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
>> > >> >
>> > >> >> 	Wow, cool. How expensive are the disks for these drives? I thought it'd be easier than a tape drive because tape involves a lot of work to set up before things work.
>> > >> >> I thought these were easy. Don't you have to enter all kinds of scsi id's and junk in to files? It's just hard to know what's compatible in linux, I heard not all adapters are.
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> On 6/26/00 at 1:55 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> >Brent, you're calling them "backup" drives, but that is simply not
>> > >> >> >correct. A "backup" is one kind of use you can put a Jazz or an Orb drive
>> > >> >> >to, but it is far more than that. For example, you can simply store files
>> > >> >> >on them.
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> >How easy is to use them?
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> >Very easy. They're just another drive designation.
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> >On Sun, 25 Jun 2000, brent harding wrote:
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> >> 			How easy is it to use debian 2.2 potato with various backup drives,
>> > >> >> >> jazz, tape, etc? The jazz drive howto looks quite easy to set up, does it
>> > >> >> >> work fairly well? How expensive are the cartridges for it? I rarely heard
>> > >> >> >> of what it was until I looked for a howto and passed it on the way. Does it
>> > >> >> >> get autodetected when you have it hooked to a scsi card? If so, which is
>> > >> >> >> the best controller to use under linux. I'm not real technically inclined
>> > >> >> >> to know what's compatible with which driver, but I'd like to be able to
>> > >> >> >> make a backup of my system. CD is out of the question because my cd-burner
>> > >> >> >> is usb, which isn't yet supported. Finally, will the jazz drive work in
>> > >> >> >> linux with a laptop?
>> > >> >> >> That ftape thing seemed kind of misleading. I thought the adaptec scsi
>> > >> >> >> cards work in linux, or not all of them?
>> > >> >> >> Thanks.
>> > >> >> >>
>> > >> >> >>
>> > >> >> >> ---
>> > >> >> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> > >> >> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> > >> >> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> > >> >> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> > >> >> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
>> > >> >> >>
>> > >> >> >>
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> >--
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> >				Janina Sajka, Director
>> > >> >> >				Information Systems Research & Development
>> > >> >> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> >janina@afb.net
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> >---
>> > >> >> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> > >> >> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> > >> >> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> > >> >> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> > >> >> >with subject line: unsubscribe
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> ---
>> > >> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> > >> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> > >> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> > >> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> > >> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >
>> > >> >--
>> > >> >
>> > >> >				Janina Sajka, Director
>> > >> >				Information Systems Research & Development
>> > >> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>> > >> >
>> > >> >janina@afb.net
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >---
>> > >> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> > >> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> > >> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> > >> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> > >> >with subject line: unsubscribe
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> ---
>> > >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> > >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> > >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> > >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> > >> with subject line: unsubscribe
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >--
>> > >
>> > >				Janina Sajka, Director
>> > >				Information Systems Research & Development
>> > >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>> > >
>> > >janina@afb.net
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >---
>> > >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> > >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> > >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> > >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> > >with subject line: unsubscribe
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ---
>> > Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> > Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> > Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> > To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> > with subject line: unsubscribe
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>--
>
>				Janina Sajka, Director
>				Information Systems Research & Development
>				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
>janina@afb.net
>
>
>---
>Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>with subject line: unsubscribe

Re: linux, backing up, jazz drives and others question

[Brent Harding]

How will usb be implemented? The 2.3 kernel isn't in yet, it's in test. Won't usb be pretty hard? Will it depend on a specific device's support more than a generic support like eide and scsi? I'm kind of new to this stuff, I got my computer with everything already in it, so never needed to worry about the address or id of devices.


*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 6/27/00 at 9:55 AM Janina Sajka wrote:

>Hi, Brent:
>
>You are correct about USB under Linux, but only until the 2.4 kernels come
>out and that's not very far in the future. I mention this again because
>one thing to consider is that these units are very portable, but the EIDE,
>if memory serves, the EIDE Orb is an internal (not parallel port) device,
>so not portable.
>
>I believe the price of the units is somewhere around $300, though one can
>probably find them for less. The web site for the Castlewood Orb is
>http://www.castlewood.com. On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
>
>As for what tools to use under Linux for backups -- the old reliable, of
>course. tar, gunzip, and now bz2.
>
>You will want to think through a good backup strategy, i.e. perhaps
>separating your /root and /usr and /etc tar archives from /home -- where
>the data changes more frequently.
>
>> 		Cool. The eide  ones are easiest to set up, right? I know usb is out of it if I'm going to use linux. What special features does this drive have? It still seems a not so bad for $40 for two gigs, I only have a 6 gig hard drive to back up. Do you have to use special drivers in linux, or does it just work on it's own? I don't know what kind of connectors remain to be used in my hard drive, I have an eide hard drive, and cd-rom that's actually atapi. Linux didn't tell me about empty slots though. Amazingly it told me the brand of hard drive I got, how cool, I never really knew that info before.
>>
>>
>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>>
>> On 6/26/00 at 9:40 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
>>
>> >The news is even better. I believe you have your choice of scsi, eide, or
>> >usb models, and they all use cartridges that can store up to about 2
>> >Gb. Not bad, imho.
>> >
>> >Having said all this to you today, I'm sad to report that something has
>> >gone awry with mine. Not the Orb or the media, something in my setup. It
>> >was working the other day, now it's not. But I can access in Winblows
>> ><groan>
>> >
>> >					Janina
>> >
>> >
>> >On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
>> >
>> >> 	Oh, how much does the orb drive store? I use debian 2.2, do you just recompile the kernel with scsi support in, and it works?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>> >>
>> >> On 6/26/00 at 4:30 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Hi:
>> >> >
>> >> >Media for Jazz drives was around $100 for the 2 gig units, last I
>> >> >looked. Media for the Orb is around $40, which is part of it's attraction.
>> >> >
>> >> >I have found the configuration pretty straight forward--but that's because
>> >> >I had some help doing it. If memory serves, the RedHat distro can discover
>> >> >and configure pretty much on its own. Of course, your mileage may vary,
>> >> >but in no way are these more cumbersome than tape drives. No way on that
>> >> >score.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> 	Wow, cool. How expensive are the disks for these drives? I thought it'd be easier than a tape drive because tape involves a lot of work to set up before things work.
>> >> >> I thought these were easy. Don't you have to enter all kinds of scsi id's and junk in to files? It's just hard to know what's compatible in linux, I heard not all adapters are.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 6/26/00 at 1:55 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >Brent, you're calling them "backup" drives, but that is simply not
>> >> >> >correct. A "backup" is one kind of use you can put a Jazz or an Orb drive
>> >> >> >to, but it is far more than that. For example, you can simply store files
>> >> >> >on them.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >How easy is to use them?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Very easy. They're just another drive designation.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >On Sun, 25 Jun 2000, brent harding wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> 			How easy is it to use debian 2.2 potato with various backup drives,
>> >> >> >> jazz, tape, etc? The jazz drive howto looks quite easy to set up, does it
>> >> >> >> work fairly well? How expensive are the cartridges for it? I rarely heard
>> >> >> >> of what it was until I looked for a howto and passed it on the way. Does it
>> >> >> >> get autodetected when you have it hooked to a scsi card? If so, which is
>> >> >> >> the best controller to use under linux. I'm not real technically inclined
>> >> >> >> to know what's compatible with which driver, but I'd like to be able to
>> >> >> >> make a backup of my system. CD is out of the question because my cd-burner
>> >> >> >> is usb, which isn't yet supported. Finally, will the jazz drive work in
>> >> >> >> linux with a laptop?
>> >> >> >> That ftape thing seemed kind of misleading. I thought the adaptec scsi
>> >> >> >> cards work in linux, or not all of them?
>> >> >> >> Thanks.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> ---
>> >> >> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >> >> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >> >> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >> >> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >> >> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >--
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >				Janina Sajka, Director
>> >> >> >				Information Systems Research & Development
>> >> >> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >janina@afb.net
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >---
>> >> >> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >> >> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >> >> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >> >> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >> >> >with subject line: unsubscribe
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ---
>> >> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >--
>> >> >
>> >> >				Janina Sajka, Director
>> >> >				Information Systems Research & Development
>> >> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>> >> >
>> >> >janina@afb.net
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >---
>> >> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >> >with subject line: unsubscribe
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ---
>> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >--
>> >
>> >				Janina Sajka, Director
>> >				Information Systems Research & Development
>> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>> >
>> >janina@afb.net
>> >
>> >
>> >---
>> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >with subject line: unsubscribe
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> with subject line: unsubscribe
>>
>>
>
>--
>
>				Janina Sajka, Director
>				Information Systems Research & Development
>				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
>janina@afb.net
>
>
>---
>Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>with subject line: unsubscribe

Re: linux, backing up, jazz drives and others question

[Brent Harding]

Can scsi controllers be added to any computer, or is a computer totally scsi or totally eide? If so, which card works the easiest under linu?


*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 6/27/00 at 12:02 AM Luke Davis wrote:

>Well: perhaps you have two IDE channels, in which case you want to put
>both the CDROM drive and the new drive on the secondary, and leave the
>first channel to harddrive(s) only.
>
>Reall, you want this to be SCSI, as it will be quite a bit faster, and it
>won't slow the cIDE channels down for other devices, such as the
>harddrive, as the CDROM is doing.
>
>On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
>
>> 		Cool. The eide  ones are easiest to set up, right? I know usb is out of it if I'm going to use linux. What special features does this drive have? It still seems a not so bad for $40 for two gigs, I only have a 6 gig hard drive to back up. Do you have to use special drivers in linux, or does it just work on it's own? I don't know what kind of connectors remain to be used in my hard drive, I have an eide hard drive, and cd-rom that's actually atapi. Linux didn't tell me about empty slots though. Amazingly it told me the brand of hard drive I got, how cool, I never really knew that info before.
>>
>>
>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>>
>> On 6/26/00 at 9:40 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
>>
>> >The news is even better. I believe you have your choice of scsi, eide, or
>> >usb models, and they all use cartridges that can store up to about 2
>> >Gb. Not bad, imho.
>> >
>> >Having said all this to you today, I'm sad to report that something has
>> >gone awry with mine. Not the Orb or the media, something in my setup. It
>> >was working the other day, now it's not. But I can access in Winblows
>> ><groan>
>> >
>> >					Janina
>> >
>> >
>> >On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
>> >
>> >> 	Oh, how much does the orb drive store? I use debian 2.2, do you just recompile the kernel with scsi support in, and it works?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>> >>
>> >> On 6/26/00 at 4:30 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Hi:
>> >> >
>> >> >Media for Jazz drives was around $100 for the 2 gig units, last I
>> >> >looked. Media for the Orb is around $40, which is part of it's attraction.
>> >> >
>> >> >I have found the configuration pretty straight forward--but that's because
>> >> >I had some help doing it. If memory serves, the RedHat distro can discover
>> >> >and configure pretty much on its own. Of course, your mileage may vary,
>> >> >but in no way are these more cumbersome than tape drives. No way on that
>> >> >score.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> 	Wow, cool. How expensive are the disks for these drives? I thought it'd be easier than a tape drive because tape involves a lot of work to set up before things work.
>> >> >> I thought these were easy. Don't you have to enter all kinds of scsi id's and junk in to files? It's just hard to know what's compatible in linux, I heard not all adapters are.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 6/26/00 at 1:55 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >Brent, you're calling them "backup" drives, but that is simply not
>> >> >> >correct. A "backup" is one kind of use you can put a Jazz or an Orb drive
>> >> >> >to, but it is far more than that. For example, you can simply store files
>> >> >> >on them.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >How easy is to use them?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Very easy. They're just another drive designation.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >On Sun, 25 Jun 2000, brent harding wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> 			How easy is it to use debian 2.2 potato with various backup drives,
>> >> >> >> jazz, tape, etc? The jazz drive howto looks quite easy to set up, does it
>> >> >> >> work fairly well? How expensive are the cartridges for it? I rarely heard
>> >> >> >> of what it was until I looked for a howto and passed it on the way. Does it
>> >> >> >> get autodetected when you have it hooked to a scsi card? If so, which is
>> >> >> >> the best controller to use under linux. I'm not real technically inclined
>> >> >> >> to know what's compatible with which driver, but I'd like to be able to
>> >> >> >> make a backup of my system. CD is out of the question because my cd-burner
>> >> >> >> is usb, which isn't yet supported. Finally, will the jazz drive work in
>> >> >> >> linux with a laptop?
>> >> >> >> That ftape thing seemed kind of misleading. I thought the adaptec scsi
>> >> >> >> cards work in linux, or not all of them?
>> >> >> >> Thanks.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> ---
>> >> >> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >> >> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >> >> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >> >> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >> >> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >--
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >				Janina Sajka, Director
>> >> >> >				Information Systems Research & Development
>> >> >> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >janina@afb.net
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >---
>> >> >> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >> >> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >> >> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >> >> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >> >> >with subject line: unsubscribe
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ---
>> >> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >--
>> >> >
>> >> >				Janina Sajka, Director
>> >> >				Information Systems Research & Development
>> >> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>> >> >
>> >> >janina@afb.net
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >---
>> >> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >> >with subject line: unsubscribe
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ---
>> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >--
>> >
>> >				Janina Sajka, Director
>> >				Information Systems Research & Development
>> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>> >
>> >janina@afb.net
>> >
>> >
>> >---
>> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >with subject line: unsubscribe
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> with subject line: unsubscribe
>>
>>
>
>--
>"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's
>character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln
>
>---
>Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>with subject line: unsubscribe

Re: linux, backing up, jazz drives and others question

[Janina Sajka]

I don't think you'd get scsi just for the Orb. You could use an external
scsi via a parallel port to scsi convertor, but you'd lose the throughput
speed doing it that way.

No, if you want the portability, you're probably better off waiting for
Linux 2.4 and using an usb Orb. 


On Tue, 27 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:

> Do they have external eide models? To my knowledge I don't think I have a scsi adapter in my computer. How would I use a scsi orb with a laptop if I did get one?
> 
> 
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> 
> On 6/27/00 at 9:58 AM Janina Sajka wrote:
> 
> >Luke:
> >
> >You are correct that one should check out the data transfer rate in
> >devices like the Orb. I remember doing this before getting mine. It
> >convinced me to wait for the external scsi Orb to come to market because
> >it had a significantly faster throughput than the usb model. I already
> >knew I wanted an external unit because I wanted the portability.
> >
> >
> >
> >On Tue, 27 Jun 2000, Luke Davis wrote:
> >
> >> Well: perhaps you have two IDE channels, in which case you want to put
> >> both the CDROM drive and the new drive on the secondary, and leave the
> >> first channel to harddrive(s) only.
> >> 
> >> Reall, you want this to be SCSI, as it will be quite a bit faster, and it
> >> won't slow the cIDE channels down for other devices, such as the
> >> harddrive, as the CDROM is doing.
> >> 
> >> On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
> >> 
> >> > 		Cool. The eide  ones are easiest to set up, right? I know usb is out of it if I'm going to use linux. What special features does this drive have? It still seems a not so bad for $40 for two gigs, I only have a 6 gig hard drive to back up. Do you have to use special drivers in linux, or does it just work on it's own? I don't know what kind of connectors remain to be used in my hard drive, I have an eide hard drive, and cd-rom that's actually atapi. Linux didn't tell me about empty slots though. Amazingly it told me the brand of hard drive I got, how cool, I never really knew that info before.
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> >> > 
> >> > On 6/26/00 at 9:40 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
> >> > 
> >> > >The news is even better. I believe you have your choice of scsi, eide, or
> >> > >usb models, and they all use cartridges that can store up to about 2
> >> > >Gb. Not bad, imho.
> >> > >
> >> > >Having said all this to you today, I'm sad to report that something has
> >> > >gone awry with mine. Not the Orb or the media, something in my setup. It
> >> > >was working the other day, now it's not. But I can access in Winblows
> >> > ><groan>
> >> > >
> >> > >					Janina
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >> 	Oh, how much does the orb drive store? I use debian 2.2, do you just recompile the kernel with scsi support in, and it works?
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> >> > >>
> >> > >> On 6/26/00 at 4:30 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> >Hi:
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> >Media for Jazz drives was around $100 for the 2 gig units, last I
> >> > >> >looked. Media for the Orb is around $40, which is part of it's attraction.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> >I have found the configuration pretty straight forward--but that's because
> >> > >> >I had some help doing it. If memory serves, the RedHat distro can discover
> >> > >> >and configure pretty much on its own. Of course, your mileage may vary,
> >> > >> >but in no way are these more cumbersome than tape drives. No way on that
> >> > >> >score.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> >On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> >> 	Wow, cool. How expensive are the disks for these drives? I thought it'd be easier than a tape drive because tape involves a lot of work to set up before things work.
> >> > >> >> I thought these were easy. Don't you have to enter all kinds of scsi id's and junk in to files? It's just hard to know what's compatible in linux, I heard not all adapters are.
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> On 6/26/00 at 1:55 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> >Brent, you're calling them "backup" drives, but that is simply not
> >> > >> >> >correct. A "backup" is one kind of use you can put a Jazz or an Orb drive
> >> > >> >> >to, but it is far more than that. For example, you can simply store files
> >> > >> >> >on them.
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> >How easy is to use them?
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> >Very easy. They're just another drive designation.
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> >On Sun, 25 Jun 2000, brent harding wrote:
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> >> 			How easy is it to use debian 2.2 potato with various backup drives,
> >> > >> >> >> jazz, tape, etc? The jazz drive howto looks quite easy to set up, does it
> >> > >> >> >> work fairly well? How expensive are the cartridges for it? I rarely heard
> >> > >> >> >> of what it was until I looked for a howto and passed it on the way. Does it
> >> > >> >> >> get autodetected when you have it hooked to a scsi card? If so, which is
> >> > >> >> >> the best controller to use under linux. I'm not real technically inclined
> >> > >> >> >> to know what's compatible with which driver, but I'd like to be able to
> >> > >> >> >> make a backup of my system. CD is out of the question because my cd-burner
> >> > >> >> >> is usb, which isn't yet supported. Finally, will the jazz drive work in
> >> > >> >> >> linux with a laptop?
> >> > >> >> >> That ftape thing seemed kind of misleading. I thought the adaptec scsi
> >> > >> >> >> cards work in linux, or not all of them?
> >> > >> >> >> Thanks.
> >> > >> >> >>
> >> > >> >> >>
> >> > >> >> >> ---
> >> > >> >> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >> > >> >> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >> > >> >> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >> > >> >> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >> > >> >> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
> >> > >> >> >>
> >> > >> >> >>
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> >--
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> >				Janina Sajka, Director
> >> > >> >> >				Information Systems Research & Development
> >> > >> >> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> >janina@afb.net
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> >---
> >> > >> >> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >> > >> >> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >> > >> >> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >> > >> >> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >> > >> >> >with subject line: unsubscribe
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> ---
> >> > >> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >> > >> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >> > >> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >> > >> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >> > >> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> >--
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> >				Janina Sajka, Director
> >> > >> >				Information Systems Research & Development
> >> > >> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> >janina@afb.net
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> >---
> >> > >> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >> > >> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >> > >> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >> > >> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >> > >> >with subject line: unsubscribe
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> ---
> >> > >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >> > >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >> > >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >> > >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >> > >> with subject line: unsubscribe
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >
> >> > >--
> >> > >
> >> > >				Janina Sajka, Director
> >> > >				Information Systems Research & Development
> >> > >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >> > >
> >> > >janina@afb.net
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >---
> >> > >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >> > >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >> > >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >> > >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >> > >with subject line: unsubscribe
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > ---
> >> > Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >> > Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >> > Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >> > To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >> > with subject line: unsubscribe
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> 
> >> 
> >
> >-- 
> >
> >				Janina Sajka, Director
> >				Information Systems Research & Development
> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> >janina@afb.net
> >
> >
> >---
> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >with subject line: unsubscribe
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> with subject line: unsubscribe
> 
> 

-- 

				Janina Sajka, Director
				Information Systems Research & Development
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

janina@afb.net

Re: linux, backing up, jazz drives and others question

[Janina Sajka]

The 2.4 kernels are now in testing. I don't have enough Linux experience
to hazard a guess as to what that means in terms of time to release. But,
I would be surprised if it's more than a couple of months.




On Tue, 27 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:

> How will usb be implemented? The 2.3 kernel isn't in yet, it's in test. Won't usb be pretty hard? Will it depend on a specific device's support more than a generic support like eide and scsi? I'm kind of new to this stuff, I got my computer with everything already in it, so never needed to worry about the address or id of devices.
> 
> 
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> 
> On 6/27/00 at 9:55 AM Janina Sajka wrote:
> 
> >Hi, Brent:
> >
> >You are correct about USB under Linux, but only until the 2.4 kernels come
> >out and that's not very far in the future. I mention this again because
> >one thing to consider is that these units are very portable, but the EIDE,
> >if memory serves, the EIDE Orb is an internal (not parallel port) device,
> >so not portable.
> >
> >I believe the price of the units is somewhere around $300, though one can
> >probably find them for less. The web site for the Castlewood Orb is
> >http://www.castlewood.com. On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
> >
> >As for what tools to use under Linux for backups -- the old reliable, of
> >course. tar, gunzip, and now bz2.
> >
> >You will want to think through a good backup strategy, i.e. perhaps
> >separating your /root and /usr and /etc tar archives from /home -- where
> >the data changes more frequently. 
> >
> >> 		Cool. The eide  ones are easiest to set up, right? I know usb is out of it if I'm going to use linux. What special features does this drive have? It still seems a not so bad for $40 for two gigs, I only have a 6 gig hard drive to back up. Do you have to use special drivers in linux, or does it just work on it's own? I don't know what kind of connectors remain to be used in my hard drive, I have an eide hard drive, and cd-rom that's actually atapi. Linux didn't tell me about empty slots though. Amazingly it told me the brand of hard drive I got, how cool, I never really knew that info before.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> >> 
> >> On 6/26/00 at 9:40 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
> >> 
> >> >The news is even better. I believe you have your choice of scsi, eide, or
> >> >usb models, and they all use cartridges that can store up to about 2
> >> >Gb. Not bad, imho.
> >> >
> >> >Having said all this to you today, I'm sad to report that something has
> >> >gone awry with mine. Not the Orb or the media, something in my setup. It
> >> >was working the other day, now it's not. But I can access in Winblows
> >> ><groan>
> >> >
> >> >					Janina
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> 	Oh, how much does the orb drive store? I use debian 2.2, do you just recompile the kernel with scsi support in, and it works?
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> >> >> 
> >> >> On 6/26/00 at 4:30 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
> >> >> 
> >> >> >Hi:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Media for Jazz drives was around $100 for the 2 gig units, last I
> >> >> >looked. Media for the Orb is around $40, which is part of it's attraction.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I have found the configuration pretty straight forward--but that's because
> >> >> >I had some help doing it. If memory serves, the RedHat distro can discover
> >> >> >and configure pretty much on its own. Of course, your mileage may vary,
> >> >> >but in no way are these more cumbersome than tape drives. No way on that
> >> >> >score.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> 	Wow, cool. How expensive are the disks for these drives? I thought it'd be easier than a tape drive because tape involves a lot of work to set up before things work.
> >> >> >> I thought these were easy. Don't you have to enter all kinds of scsi id's and junk in to files? It's just hard to know what's compatible in linux, I heard not all adapters are.
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> On 6/26/00 at 1:55 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> >Brent, you're calling them "backup" drives, but that is simply not
> >> >> >> >correct. A "backup" is one kind of use you can put a Jazz or an Orb drive
> >> >> >> >to, but it is far more than that. For example, you can simply store files
> >> >> >> >on them.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >How easy is to use them?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Very easy. They're just another drive designation.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >On Sun, 25 Jun 2000, brent harding wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> 			How easy is it to use debian 2.2 potato with various backup drives,
> >> >> >> >> jazz, tape, etc? The jazz drive howto looks quite easy to set up, does it
> >> >> >> >> work fairly well? How expensive are the cartridges for it? I rarely heard
> >> >> >> >> of what it was until I looked for a howto and passed it on the way. Does it
> >> >> >> >> get autodetected when you have it hooked to a scsi card? If so, which is
> >> >> >> >> the best controller to use under linux. I'm not real technically inclined
> >> >> >> >> to know what's compatible with which driver, but I'd like to be able to
> >> >> >> >> make a backup of my system. CD is out of the question because my cd-burner
> >> >> >> >> is usb, which isn't yet supported. Finally, will the jazz drive work in
> >> >> >> >> linux with a laptop?
> >> >> >> >> That ftape thing seemed kind of misleading. I thought the adaptec scsi
> >> >> >> >> cards work in linux, or not all of them?
> >> >> >> >> Thanks.
> >> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> >> ---
> >> >> >> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >> >> >> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >> >> >> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >> >> >> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
> >> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >-- 
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >				Janina Sajka, Director
> >> >> >> >				Information Systems Research & Development
> >> >> >> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >janina@afb.net
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >---
> >> >> >> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >> >> >> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >> >> >> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >> >> >> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >> >> >> >with subject line: unsubscribe
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> ---
> >> >> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >> >> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >> >> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >> >> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >> >> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >> 
> >> >> >
> >> >> >-- 
> >> >> >
> >> >> >				Janina Sajka, Director
> >> >> >				Information Systems Research & Development
> >> >> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >> >> >
> >> >> >janina@afb.net
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >---
> >> >> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >> >> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >> >> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >> >> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >> >> >with subject line: unsubscribe
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >> ---
> >> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
> >> >> 
> >> >> 
> >> >
> >> >-- 
> >> >
> >> >				Janina Sajka, Director
> >> >				Information Systems Research & Development
> >> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >> >
> >> >janina@afb.net
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >---
> >> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >> >with subject line: unsubscribe
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> ---
> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
> >> 
> >> 
> >
> >-- 
> >
> >				Janina Sajka, Director
> >				Information Systems Research & Development
> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
> >
> >janina@afb.net
> >
> >
> >---
> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> >with subject line: unsubscribe
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> with subject line: unsubscribe
> 
> 

-- 

				Janina Sajka, Director
				Information Systems Research & Development
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

janina@afb.net

Re: linux, backing up, jazz drives and others question

[brent harding]

I don't really have to have portability, I don't use my laptop really
often, mostly as a backup system if something makes my primary machine
unbootable. I used to use it a little more last year when I first got it, I
might be using it more in the future, but I'm not real sure. I just want to
have something to back up with so if I install a program that makes linux
unbootable I don't have to start all over and download for hours to get my
whole system back, I had to download what I have of debian off the net
because 2.2 hasn't come out on CD yet. Isn't there something with the
printer that holds the parallel port open so it's not usable as long as
that driver is on? I don't know what debian's package installer did when I
installed by task, it put a ton of nfs junk and printer junk I didn't
really want, and don't know what it depends on.
At 02:29 PM 6/27/00 -0400, you wrote:
>I don't think you'd get scsi just for the Orb. You could use an external
>scsi via a parallel port to scsi convertor, but you'd lose the throughput
>speed doing it that way.
>
>No, if you want the portability, you're probably better off waiting for
>Linux 2.4 and using an usb Orb. 
>
>
>On Tue, 27 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
>
>> Do they have external eide models? To my knowledge I don't think I have
a scsi adapter in my computer. How would I use a scsi orb with a laptop if
I did get one?
>> 
>> 
>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>> 
>> On 6/27/00 at 9:58 AM Janina Sajka wrote:
>> 
>> >Luke:
>> >
>> >You are correct that one should check out the data transfer rate in
>> >devices like the Orb. I remember doing this before getting mine. It
>> >convinced me to wait for the external scsi Orb to come to market because
>> >it had a significantly faster throughput than the usb model. I already
>> >knew I wanted an external unit because I wanted the portability.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >On Tue, 27 Jun 2000, Luke Davis wrote:
>> >
>> >> Well: perhaps you have two IDE channels, in which case you want to put
>> >> both the CDROM drive and the new drive on the secondary, and leave the
>> >> first channel to harddrive(s) only.
>> >> 
>> >> Reall, you want this to be SCSI, as it will be quite a bit faster,
and it
>> >> won't slow the cIDE channels down for other devices, such as the
>> >> harddrive, as the CDROM is doing.
>> >> 
>> >> On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> > 		Cool. The eide  ones are easiest to set up, right? I know usb is
out of it if I'm going to use linux. What special features does this drive
have? It still seems a not so bad for $40 for two gigs, I only have a 6 gig
hard drive to back up. Do you have to use special drivers in linux, or does
it just work on it's own? I don't know what kind of connectors remain to be
used in my hard drive, I have an eide hard drive, and cd-rom that's
actually atapi. Linux didn't tell me about empty slots though. Amazingly it
told me the brand of hard drive I got, how cool, I never really knew that
info before.
>> >> > 
>> >> > 
>> >> > *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>> >> > 
>> >> > On 6/26/00 at 9:40 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
>> >> > 
>> >> > >The news is even better. I believe you have your choice of scsi,
eide, or
>> >> > >usb models, and they all use cartridges that can store up to about 2
>> >> > >Gb. Not bad, imho.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >Having said all this to you today, I'm sad to report that
something has
>> >> > >gone awry with mine. Not the Orb or the media, something in my
setup. It
>> >> > >was working the other day, now it's not. But I can access in Winblows
>> >> > ><groan>
>> >> > >
>> >> > >					Janina
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > >> 	Oh, how much does the orb drive store? I use debian 2.2, do you
just recompile the kernel with scsi support in, and it works?
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> On 6/26/00 at 4:30 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> >Hi:
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >Media for Jazz drives was around $100 for the 2 gig units, last I
>> >> > >> >looked. Media for the Orb is around $40, which is part of it's
attraction.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >I have found the configuration pretty straight forward--but
that's because
>> >> > >> >I had some help doing it. If memory serves, the RedHat distro
can discover
>> >> > >> >and configure pretty much on its own. Of course, your mileage
may vary,
>> >> > >> >but in no way are these more cumbersome than tape drives. No
way on that
>> >> > >> >score.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >> 	Wow, cool. How expensive are the disks for these drives? I
thought it'd be easier than a tape drive because tape involves a lot of
work to set up before things work.
>> >> > >> >> I thought these were easy. Don't you have to enter all kinds
of scsi id's and junk in to files? It's just hard to know what's compatible
in linux, I heard not all adapters are.
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> On 6/26/00 at 1:55 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> >Brent, you're calling them "backup" drives, but that is
simply not
>> >> > >> >> >correct. A "backup" is one kind of use you can put a Jazz or
an Orb drive
>> >> > >> >> >to, but it is far more than that. For example, you can
simply store files
>> >> > >> >> >on them.
>> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> >How easy is to use them?
>> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> >Very easy. They're just another drive designation.
>> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> >On Sun, 25 Jun 2000, brent harding wrote:
>> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> >> 			How easy is it to use debian 2.2 potato with various
backup drives,
>> >> > >> >> >> jazz, tape, etc? The jazz drive howto looks quite easy to
set up, does it
>> >> > >> >> >> work fairly well? How expensive are the cartridges for it?
I rarely heard
>> >> > >> >> >> of what it was until I looked for a howto and passed it on
the way. Does it
>> >> > >> >> >> get autodetected when you have it hooked to a scsi card?
If so, which is
>> >> > >> >> >> the best controller to use under linux. I'm not real
technically inclined
>> >> > >> >> >> to know what's compatible with which driver, but I'd like
to be able to
>> >> > >> >> >> make a backup of my system. CD is out of the question
because my cd-burner
>> >> > >> >> >> is usb, which isn't yet supported. Finally, will the jazz
drive work in
>> >> > >> >> >> linux with a laptop?
>> >> > >> >> >> That ftape thing seemed kind of misleading. I thought the
adaptec scsi
>> >> > >> >> >> cards work in linux, or not all of them?
>> >> > >> >> >> Thanks.
>> >> > >> >> >>
>> >> > >> >> >>
>> >> > >> >> >> ---
>> >> > >> >> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >> > >> >> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >> > >> >> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >> > >> >> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >> > >> >> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
>> >> > >> >> >>
>> >> > >> >> >>
>> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> >--
>> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> >				Janina Sajka, Director
>> >> > >> >> >				Information Systems Research & Development
>> >> > >> >> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> >janina@afb.net
>> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> >
>> >> > >> >> >---
>> >> > >> >> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >> > >> >> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >> > >> >> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >> > >> >> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >> > >> >> >with subject line: unsubscribe
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >> ---
>> >> > >> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >> > >> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >> > >> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >> > >> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >> > >> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >>
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >--
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >				Janina Sajka, Director
>> >> > >> >				Information Systems Research & Development
>> >> > >> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >janina@afb.net
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >> >---
>> >> > >> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >> > >> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >> > >> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >> > >> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >> > >> >with subject line: unsubscribe
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> ---
>> >> > >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >> > >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >> > >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >> > >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >> > >> with subject line: unsubscribe
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >
>> >> > >--
>> >> > >
>> >> > >				Janina Sajka, Director
>> >> > >				Information Systems Research & Development
>> >> > >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>> >> > >
>> >> > >janina@afb.net
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >---
>> >> > >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >> > >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >> > >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >> > >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >> > >with subject line: unsubscribe
>> >> > 
>> >> > 
>> >> > 
>> >> > ---
>> >> > Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >> > Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >> > Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >> > To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >> > with subject line: unsubscribe
>> >> > 
>> >> > 
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >
>> >-- 
>> >
>> >				Janina Sajka, Director
>> >				Information Systems Research & Development
>> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>> >
>> >janina@afb.net
>> >
>> >
>> >---
>> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >with subject line: unsubscribe
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---
>> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> with subject line: unsubscribe
>> 
>> 
>
>-- 
>
>				Janina Sajka, Director
>				Information Systems Research & Development
>				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
>janina@afb.net
>
>
>---
>Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>with subject line: unsubscribe
>
>

Re: linux, backing up, jazz drives and others question

[brent harding]

I thought I heard of this new usb thing being in test since last year, but
don't really know. If usb comes in, you'd still have to find drivers for
every device you have, unlike just using generic support for usb and have
everything work. The trouble is it's more of a microsoft technology, I
think, and is hard to implement. I made the mistake of getting an usb
cd-writer that's not usable in linux. I didn't know about linux then that
it could talk, although I wanted it because I was using a shell account and
wanted to be able to run certain programs I needed to be root to install.
At 02:31 PM 6/27/00 -0400, you wrote:
>The 2.4 kernels are now in testing. I don't have enough Linux experience
>to hazard a guess as to what that means in terms of time to release. But,
>I would be surprised if it's more than a couple of months.
>
>
>
>
>On Tue, 27 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
>
>> How will usb be implemented? The 2.3 kernel isn't in yet, it's in test.
Won't usb be pretty hard? Will it depend on a specific device's support
more than a generic support like eide and scsi? I'm kind of new to this
stuff, I got my computer with everything already in it, so never needed to
worry about the address or id of devices.
>> 
>> 
>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>> 
>> On 6/27/00 at 9:55 AM Janina Sajka wrote:
>> 
>> >Hi, Brent:
>> >
>> >You are correct about USB under Linux, but only until the 2.4 kernels come
>> >out and that's not very far in the future. I mention this again because
>> >one thing to consider is that these units are very portable, but the EIDE,
>> >if memory serves, the EIDE Orb is an internal (not parallel port) device,
>> >so not portable.
>> >
>> >I believe the price of the units is somewhere around $300, though one can
>> >probably find them for less. The web site for the Castlewood Orb is
>> >http://www.castlewood.com. On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
>> >
>> >As for what tools to use under Linux for backups -- the old reliable, of
>> >course. tar, gunzip, and now bz2.
>> >
>> >You will want to think through a good backup strategy, i.e. perhaps
>> >separating your /root and /usr and /etc tar archives from /home -- where
>> >the data changes more frequently. 
>> >
>> >> 		Cool. The eide  ones are easiest to set up, right? I know usb is
out of it if I'm going to use linux. What special features does this drive
have? It still seems a not so bad for $40 for two gigs, I only have a 6 gig
hard drive to back up. Do you have to use special drivers in linux, or does
it just work on it's own? I don't know what kind of connectors remain to be
used in my hard drive, I have an eide hard drive, and cd-rom that's
actually atapi. Linux didn't tell me about empty slots though. Amazingly it
told me the brand of hard drive I got, how cool, I never really knew that
info before.
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>> >> 
>> >> On 6/26/00 at 9:40 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> >The news is even better. I believe you have your choice of scsi,
eide, or
>> >> >usb models, and they all use cartridges that can store up to about 2
>> >> >Gb. Not bad, imho.
>> >> >
>> >> >Having said all this to you today, I'm sad to report that something has
>> >> >gone awry with mine. Not the Orb or the media, something in my
setup. It
>> >> >was working the other day, now it's not. But I can access in Winblows
>> >> ><groan>
>> >> >
>> >> >					Janina
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> 	Oh, how much does the orb drive store? I use debian 2.2, do you
just recompile the kernel with scsi support in, and it works?
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> On 6/26/00 at 4:30 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> >Hi:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Media for Jazz drives was around $100 for the 2 gig units, last I
>> >> >> >looked. Media for the Orb is around $40, which is part of it's
attraction.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >I have found the configuration pretty straight forward--but
that's because
>> >> >> >I had some help doing it. If memory serves, the RedHat distro can
discover
>> >> >> >and configure pretty much on its own. Of course, your mileage may
vary,
>> >> >> >but in no way are these more cumbersome than tape drives. No way
on that
>> >> >> >score.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >On Mon, 26 Jun 2000, Brent Harding wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> 	Wow, cool. How expensive are the disks for these drives? I
thought it'd be easier than a tape drive because tape involves a lot of
work to set up before things work.
>> >> >> >> I thought these were easy. Don't you have to enter all kinds of
scsi id's and junk in to files? It's just hard to know what's compatible in
linux, I heard not all adapters are.
>> >> >> >> 
>> >> >> >> 
>> >> >> >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>> >> >> >> 
>> >> >> >> On 6/26/00 at 1:55 PM Janina Sajka wrote:
>> >> >> >> 
>> >> >> >> >Brent, you're calling them "backup" drives, but that is simply
not
>> >> >> >> >correct. A "backup" is one kind of use you can put a Jazz or
an Orb drive
>> >> >> >> >to, but it is far more than that. For example, you can simply
store files
>> >> >> >> >on them.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >How easy is to use them?
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >Very easy. They're just another drive designation.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >On Sun, 25 Jun 2000, brent harding wrote:
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> 			How easy is it to use debian 2.2 potato with various
backup drives,
>> >> >> >> >> jazz, tape, etc? The jazz drive howto looks quite easy to
set up, does it
>> >> >> >> >> work fairly well? How expensive are the cartridges for it? I
rarely heard
>> >> >> >> >> of what it was until I looked for a howto and passed it on
the way. Does it
>> >> >> >> >> get autodetected when you have it hooked to a scsi card? If
so, which is
>> >> >> >> >> the best controller to use under linux. I'm not real
technically inclined
>> >> >> >> >> to know what's compatible with which driver, but I'd like to
be able to
>> >> >> >> >> make a backup of my system. CD is out of the question
because my cd-burner
>> >> >> >> >> is usb, which isn't yet supported. Finally, will the jazz
drive work in
>> >> >> >> >> linux with a laptop?
>> >> >> >> >> That ftape thing seemed kind of misleading. I thought the
adaptec scsi
>> >> >> >> >> cards work in linux, or not all of them?
>> >> >> >> >> Thanks.
>> >> >> >> >> 
>> >> >> >> >> 
>> >> >> >> >> ---
>> >> >> >> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >> >> >> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >> >> >> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >> >> >> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >> >> >> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
>> >> >> >> >> 
>> >> >> >> >> 
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >-- 
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >				Janina Sajka, Director
>> >> >> >> >				Information Systems Research & Development
>> >> >> >> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >janina@afb.net
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >---
>> >> >> >> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >> >> >> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >> >> >> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >> >> >> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >> >> >> >with subject line: unsubscribe
>> >> >> >> 
>> >> >> >> 
>> >> >> >> 
>> >> >> >> ---
>> >> >> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >> >> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >> >> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >> >> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >> >> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
>> >> >> >> 
>> >> >> >> 
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >-- 
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >				Janina Sajka, Director
>> >> >> >				Information Systems Research & Development
>> >> >> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >janina@afb.net
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >---
>> >> >> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >> >> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >> >> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >> >> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >> >> >with subject line: unsubscribe
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> ---
>> >> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
>> >> >> 
>> >> >> 
>> >> >
>> >> >-- 
>> >> >
>> >> >				Janina Sajka, Director
>> >> >				Information Systems Research & Development
>> >> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>> >> >
>> >> >janina@afb.net
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >---
>> >> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >> >with subject line: unsubscribe
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> ---
>> >> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >> with subject line: unsubscribe
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >
>> >-- 
>> >
>> >				Janina Sajka, Director
>> >				Information Systems Research & Development
>> >				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>> >
>> >janina@afb.net
>> >
>> >
>> >---
>> >Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> >Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> >To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> >with subject line: unsubscribe
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---
>> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>> with subject line: unsubscribe
>> 
>> 
>
>-- 
>
>				Janina Sajka, Director
>				Information Systems Research & Development
>				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)
>
>janina@afb.net
>
>
>---
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