RE: some thoughts on a screen reader

RE: some thoughts on a screen reader

[Chris Peterson]

Or, what toggling the number pad from review to normal mode like the "Jaws 
Cursor" or the "VE cursor"?  Not that using the f keys would be bad but I 
personally just can't imagine having to use them for review.  They could 
be used for other things that could be implemented later such as 
automatically adjusting speech synthesizer settings or something.

The thing is, this can all be changed with key bindings.  The biggest 
problem is reading directly from the keyboard which, as near as I can 
figure out from the limited information I can find on this, would be done 
through /dev/tty0 which is what /dev/console is usually simlinked to. 
 Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong here.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From:	bratr@sai1.aus.swr.irs.gov [SMTP:bratr@sai1.aus.swr.irs.gov]
Sent:	Monday, January 26, 1998 9:05 AM
To:	blinux-list@redhat.com
Subject:	Re: some thoughts on a screen reader


Further down that same road, and not discounting the idea fo a 
configuration
menu, but what about all the f1 through f12 keys?
I mention these because they're usually prime candidates for mapping user
macros within vi because they're (at least on the
mini versions of unix where I comd from) not used.
This would free up the number pad for the possibility of traditional arrow 
and cursor
navigating.
Brad Trainham

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RE: some thoughts on a screen reader

[Robbie Murray]

Hi

Does anyone know anything about the new console code in the development
kernels? maybe it would make it easier? Anyway, since 2.2 will be out in
the not too distant future, imho there would be no point in designing
something based arround the current console. 

Regards

Rob



Robbie Murray

Re: some thoughts on a screen reader

[Max G. Swanson]

Though I don't know exactly how it would be done, it strikes me that two
review modes--with and without the numpad--wouldn't be a big deal.  Most of
the DOS screenreaders have variable "hot keys".

After all, this is simply what Linux/Unix calls "Key Bindings."  The trick
would be to provide a user interface that would make configuring the review
cluster quick and easy.  

---And that's all she wrote, until the next time.  Max s.,
maxswn.@citilink.com; Words & Woodwinds, un poco locl!

Re: some thoughts on a screen reader

[bratr]

Further down that same road, and not discounting the idea fo a configuration
menu, but what about all the f1 through f12 keys?
I mention these because they're usually prime candidates for mapping user
macros within vi because they're (at least on the
mini versions of unix where I comd from) not used. 
This would free up the number pad for the possibility of traditional arrow and cursor
navigating. 
Brad Trainham

RE: some thoughts on a screen reader

[Chris Peterson]

I don't have the linux man page but I did look at the solaris man page for 
/dev/console and, if that device has a similar function in linux...  Can 
someone check out ``man console''?

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From:	Whistler [SMTP:whistler@blinksoft.com]
Sent:	Saturday, January 24, 1998 5:25 PM
To:	'blinux-list@redhat.com'
Subject:	RE: some thoughts on a screen reader




I would be willing to give this a shot if I can find good enough docs on
keyboards for Linux.  I tryed one time back but there was not enough
information on line for me to get what I needed.  I will check again now.

Ken /whistler

On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Chris Peterson wrote:

>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Whistler [SMTP:whistler@blinksoft.com]
> Sent:	Saturday, January 24, 1998 3:22 PM
> To:	blinux-list@redhat.com
> Subject:	Re: some thoughts on a screen reader
>
>
>
> Actually I can't remember who I talked to it was back in my early days 
on
> the net.   My suggestion would be this since it is a bit fun to get the
> keyboard stuff working and since some people on this list didn't like my
> idea of using the number pad on your keyboard.   There is a serial 
device
> that I think sells for somewhere between 45$ and 75$ that is an extra
> number pad.   I think what could be done is instead of using the brail
> input device  we could all afford 75$ I think to buy a sperate serial
> number pad which would also not tie up any of the keys on our normal
> keyboard.   This would also make converting brailletty easy what do you
>
> This would work.  My idea, though, would be to be able to define all of
> the review keys somehow so those who don't like the idea of using the
> number pad for what ever reason could redefine the review keys to what
> ever they want.  This would also make it a lot easier to use on a laptop 
> which might not have a number pad.  I know that, when I'm using a 
laptop,
> I don't really feel like having any extra accessories than necessary and 
I
> think that an external number pad would just get in the way.
>
> Anyway, for those who have written device drivers, how difficult would 
it
> be to write a driver to output everything from the keyboard to something 
> like, for example, /dev/keyboard assuming their isn't such a device
> already in existence?
>
> Just some thoughts,
>
> Chris
>
> ---
> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> with subject line: unsubscribe
>

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Re: some thoughts on a screen reader

[Bart Bunting]

Whistler writes:
 > 
 > 
 > Actually I can't remember who I talked to it was back in my early days on
 > the net.   My suggestion would be this since it is a bit fun to get the
 > keyboard stuff working and since some people on this list didn't like my
 > idea of using the number pad on your keyboard.   There is a serial device
 > that I think sells for somewhere between 45$ and 75$ that is an extra
 > number pad.   I think what could be done is instead of using the brail
 > input device  we could all afford 75$ I think to buy a sperate serial
 > number pad which would also not tie up any of the keys on our normal
 > keyboard.   This would also make converting brailletty easy what do you
 > think?

my only reservations about using a separate keypad is that you would have to move your hands off the keyboard to review the screen.  
it may be possible to offer two modes of operation, one using the number pad on the keyboard and the other to use a a separete keypad.

Bart
 

RE: some thoughts on a screen reader

[Nicolas Pitre]

I saw something somewhere which looked like if it was possible to assign a
signal to a key binding.  It is briefly stated in man console_ioctl (then
look for KDSIGACCEPT).  But like I said, I didn't tested it much yet...

If this works, it would be the best thing to use as it doesn't require
modifying the kernel, which is always best.

On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Whistler wrote:

> I would be willing to give this a shot if I can find good enough docs on
> keyboards for Linux.  I tryed one time back but there was not enough
> information on line for me to get what I needed.  I will check again now.
> 
> Ken /whistler
> 
> On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Chris Peterson wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:	Whistler [SMTP:whistler@blinksoft.com]
> > Sent:	Saturday, January 24, 1998 3:22 PM
> > To:	blinux-list@redhat.com
> > Subject:	Re: some thoughts on a screen reader
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Actually I can't remember who I talked to it was back in my early days on
> > the net.   My suggestion would be this since it is a bit fun to get the
> > keyboard stuff working and since some people on this list didn't like my
> > idea of using the number pad on your keyboard.   There is a serial device
> > that I think sells for somewhere between 45$ and 75$ that is an extra
> > number pad.   I think what could be done is instead of using the brail
> > input device  we could all afford 75$ I think to buy a sperate serial
> > number pad which would also not tie up any of the keys on our normal
> > keyboard.   This would also make converting brailletty easy what do you
> > 
> > This would work.  My idea, though, would be to be able to define all of 
> > the review keys somehow so those who don't like the idea of using the 
> > number pad for what ever reason could redefine the review keys to what 
> > ever they want.  This would also make it a lot easier to use on a laptop 
> > which might not have a number pad.  I know that, when I'm using a laptop, 
> > I don't really feel like having any extra accessories than necessary and I 
> > think that an external number pad would just get in the way.
> > 
> > Anyway, for those who have written device drivers, how difficult would it 
> > be to write a driver to output everything from the keyboard to something 
> > like, for example, /dev/keyboard assuming their isn't such a device 
> > already in existence?
> > 
> > Just some thoughts,
> > 
> > Chris
> > 
> > ---
> > Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> > Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> > Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> > To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> > with subject line: unsubscribe
> > 
> 
> ---
> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> with subject line: unsubscribe
> 
> 

Nicolas Pitre, B. ing.
nico@cam.org

RE: some thoughts on a screen reader

[Whistler]

I would be willing to give this a shot if I can find good enough docs on
keyboards for Linux.  I tryed one time back but there was not enough
information on line for me to get what I needed.  I will check again now.

Ken /whistler

On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Chris Peterson wrote:

> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Whistler [SMTP:whistler@blinksoft.com]
> Sent:	Saturday, January 24, 1998 3:22 PM
> To:	blinux-list@redhat.com
> Subject:	Re: some thoughts on a screen reader
> 
> 
> 
> Actually I can't remember who I talked to it was back in my early days on
> the net.   My suggestion would be this since it is a bit fun to get the
> keyboard stuff working and since some people on this list didn't like my
> idea of using the number pad on your keyboard.   There is a serial device
> that I think sells for somewhere between 45$ and 75$ that is an extra
> number pad.   I think what could be done is instead of using the brail
> input device  we could all afford 75$ I think to buy a sperate serial
> number pad which would also not tie up any of the keys on our normal
> keyboard.   This would also make converting brailletty easy what do you
> 
> This would work.  My idea, though, would be to be able to define all of 
> the review keys somehow so those who don't like the idea of using the 
> number pad for what ever reason could redefine the review keys to what 
> ever they want.  This would also make it a lot easier to use on a laptop 
> which might not have a number pad.  I know that, when I'm using a laptop, 
> I don't really feel like having any extra accessories than necessary and I 
> think that an external number pad would just get in the way.
> 
> Anyway, for those who have written device drivers, how difficult would it 
> be to write a driver to output everything from the keyboard to something 
> like, for example, /dev/keyboard assuming their isn't such a device 
> already in existence?
> 
> Just some thoughts,
> 
> Chris
> 
> ---
> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> with subject line: unsubscribe
> 

RE: some thoughts on a screen reader

[Chris Peterson]

-----Original Message-----
From:	Whistler [SMTP:whistler@blinksoft.com]
Sent:	Saturday, January 24, 1998 3:22 PM
To:	blinux-list@redhat.com
Subject:	Re: some thoughts on a screen reader



Actually I can't remember who I talked to it was back in my early days on
the net.   My suggestion would be this since it is a bit fun to get the
keyboard stuff working and since some people on this list didn't like my
idea of using the number pad on your keyboard.   There is a serial device
that I think sells for somewhere between 45$ and 75$ that is an extra
number pad.   I think what could be done is instead of using the brail
input device  we could all afford 75$ I think to buy a sperate serial
number pad which would also not tie up any of the keys on our normal
keyboard.   This would also make converting brailletty easy what do you

This would work.  My idea, though, would be to be able to define all of 
the review keys somehow so those who don't like the idea of using the 
number pad for what ever reason could redefine the review keys to what 
ever they want.  This would also make it a lot easier to use on a laptop 
which might not have a number pad.  I know that, when I'm using a laptop, 
I don't really feel like having any extra accessories than necessary and I 
think that an external number pad would just get in the way.

Anyway, for those who have written device drivers, how difficult would it 
be to write a driver to output everything from the keyboard to something 
like, for example, /dev/keyboard assuming their isn't such a device 
already in existence?

Just some thoughts,

Chris

Re: some thoughts on a screen reader

[Whistler]

Actually I can't remember who I talked to it was back in my early days on
the net.   My suggestion would be this since it is a bit fun to get the
keyboard stuff working and since some people on this list didn't like my
idea of using the number pad on your keyboard.   There is a serial device
that I think sells for somewhere between 45$ and 75$ that is an extra
number pad.   I think what could be done is instead of using the brail
input device  we could all afford 75$ I think to buy a sperate serial
number pad which would also not tie up any of the keys on our normal
keyboard.   This would also make converting brailletty easy what do you
think?


Ken /whistler

On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Nicolas Pitre wrote:

> OK.  I don't know who you wrote to but it might not have been me.  Since
> I'm part of the BRLTTY team and wrote substantial parts in the package,
> I'm not the maintainer of it.  And since its maintainer, Nikhil Nair
> <nn201@cus.cam.ac.uk>, seems absent from the net for quite a long time
> now, I am thinking taking over the maintenance of BRLTTY.
> 
> Now for speech, BRLTTY (at least my current version), do support simple
> speech... and I use it all the time.  The thing is that speech is
> activated through my braille display keys since I don't know of a nice way
> to get console keystrokes from the kernel.  It might require some kernel
> hacking but I didn't figure it out yet.  Once this problem solved, it
> would be easy to adapt BRLTTY for speech and brailleless use.
> 
> By the way, HandiTech users might see Linux native support soon...
> 
> On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Chris Peterson, KG0BP wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Whistler wrote:
> > 
> > > I had talked to the writer of brailtty and he said he might make it so
> > > youc an use it with speech but he alsomentioned he was in no hurry since
> > > he himself does not use speech.  So yes you do have something but most
> > > people who can code something like this would rather make their own code
> > > than have to learn and modify someone elses.
> > 
> > I did see that in the brltty todo but... like you say it's not a high
> > priority.  Also, some of it's features would have to be a little different
> > in speech and, if he doesn't use speech, why should he care?  I guess I
> > was thinking that it would be a useful model to work from in developing
> > something for speech.  Unfortunately, I don't know that much about
> > programming in c, especially under linux, but I'm trying to learn
> > something by asking this question.  Thanks for the response!
> > 
> > Chris
> > 
> > ---
> > Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> > Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> > Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> > To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> > with subject line: unsubscribe
> > 
> > 
> 
> Nicolas Pitre, B. ing.
> nico@cam.org
> 
> 
> ---
> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> with subject line: unsubscribe
> 

Re: some thoughts on a screen reader

[Nicolas Pitre]

OK.  I don't know who you wrote to but it might not have been me.  Since
I'm part of the BRLTTY team and wrote substantial parts in the package,
I'm not the maintainer of it.  And since its maintainer, Nikhil Nair
<nn201@cus.cam.ac.uk>, seems absent from the net for quite a long time
now, I am thinking taking over the maintenance of BRLTTY.

Now for speech, BRLTTY (at least my current version), do support simple
speech... and I use it all the time.  The thing is that speech is
activated through my braille display keys since I don't know of a nice way
to get console keystrokes from the kernel.  It might require some kernel
hacking but I didn't figure it out yet.  Once this problem solved, it
would be easy to adapt BRLTTY for speech and brailleless use.

By the way, HandiTech users might see Linux native support soon...

On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Chris Peterson, KG0BP wrote:

> 
> 
> On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Whistler wrote:
> 
> > I had talked to the writer of brailtty and he said he might make it so
> > youc an use it with speech but he alsomentioned he was in no hurry since
> > he himself does not use speech.  So yes you do have something but most
> > people who can code something like this would rather make their own code
> > than have to learn and modify someone elses.
> 
> I did see that in the brltty todo but... like you say it's not a high
> priority.  Also, some of it's features would have to be a little different
> in speech and, if he doesn't use speech, why should he care?  I guess I
> was thinking that it would be a useful model to work from in developing
> something for speech.  Unfortunately, I don't know that much about
> programming in c, especially under linux, but I'm trying to learn
> something by asking this question.  Thanks for the response!
> 
> Chris
> 
> ---
> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> with subject line: unsubscribe
> 
> 

Nicolas Pitre, B. ing.
nico@cam.org

Re: some thoughts on a screen reader

[Jos Lemmens]

Hello Chris,

> Well...  Excuse me if I don't make any sence because I'm not much of a
> programmer but...  I was looking at the basic concept of brltty and
> thinking...  Oh, I didn't hurt myself to bad.
>
> Anyway, here's my thought.  Brltty has, I think, has quite a few of the
> same components necessary to write a screen reader for speech with a
> little modification.  The most important thing that's missing, as far as I
> can tell, is code to capture the key strokes from the keyboard to perform
> the review functions.  After that, it shouldn't be the most complicated
> thing in the world to send the necessary info to a synthesizer driver.
>
> Like I say, I'm sort of talking out of my a*s but do I have something
> that's worth working on or is it not worth bothering with?  Anyone who
> knows what they're doing have any oppinions?
>
You're right. I've written a driver for the Alva braille terminals
called abt320. A small version of screader (a screen reader) is already
implemented in abt320.
These programs are available on my homepage.

   http://www.inter.nl.net/users/jlemmens

or on the blinux archive.

    Best regards,

        Jos.

--

   -------------------------------
   Jos Lemmens
   The Netherlands
   Tel.: + 31-10-248 0 266
   E-mail: jlemmens@inter.NL.net
   Homepage: www.inter.nl.net/users/jlemmens

Re: some thoughts on a screen reader

[Chris Peterson, KG0BP]

On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Whistler wrote:

> I had talked to the writer of brailtty and he said he might make it so
> youc an use it with speech but he alsomentioned he was in no hurry since
> he himself does not use speech.  So yes you do have something but most
> people who can code something like this would rather make their own code
> than have to learn and modify someone elses.

I did see that in the brltty todo but... like you say it's not a high
priority.  Also, some of it's features would have to be a little different
in speech and, if he doesn't use speech, why should he care?  I guess I
was thinking that it would be a useful model to work from in developing
something for speech.  Unfortunately, I don't know that much about
programming in c, especially under linux, but I'm trying to learn
something by asking this question.  Thanks for the response!

Chris

Re: some thoughts on a screen reader

[Martin Courcelles]

Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable



Actually, that is not far-fetched.  The people behind the brltty projec=
t were
looking into such capabilities, but it's been pretty quiet for a while =
now.  I
don't think that there is any more development being done.  However, if=
 anyone
is interrested the code is readily available. =20


Well...  Excuse me if I don't make any sence because I'm not much of a
programmer but...  I was looking at the basic concept of brltty and
thinking...  Oh, I didn't hurt myself to bad.

Anyway, here's my thought.  Brltty has, I think, has quite a few of the=

same components necessary to write a screen reader for speech with a
little modification.  The most important thing that's missing, as far a=
s I
can tell, is code to capture the key strokes from the keyboard to perfo=
rm
the review functions.  After that, it shouldn't be the most complicated=

thing in the world to send the necessary info to a synthesizer driver.

Like I say, I'm sort of talking out of my a*s but do I have something
that's worth working on or is it not worth bothering with?  Anyone who
knows what they're doing have any oppinions?

thanks,
Chris

---
Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
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with subject line: unsubscribe

=2E
=

Re: some thoughts on a screen reader

[Whistler]

I had talked to the writer of brailtty and he said he might make it so
youc an use it with speech but he alsomentioned he was in no hurry since
he himself does not use speech.  So yes you do have something but most
people who can code something like this would rather make their own code
than have to learn and modify someone elses.

Ken /whistler

On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Chris Peterson, KG0BP wrote:

> Well...  Excuse me if I don't make any sence because I'm not much of a
> programmer but...  I was looking at the basic concept of brltty and
> thinking...  Oh, I didn't hurt myself to bad.
> 
> Anyway, here's my thought.  Brltty has, I think, has quite a few of the
> same components necessary to write a screen reader for speech with a
> little modification.  The most important thing that's missing, as far as I
> can tell, is code to capture the key strokes from the keyboard to perform
> the review functions.  After that, it shouldn't be the most complicated
> thing in the world to send the necessary info to a synthesizer driver.
> 
> Like I say, I'm sort of talking out of my a*s but do I have something
> that's worth working on or is it not worth bothering with?  Anyone who
> knows what they're doing have any oppinions?
> 
> thanks,
> Chris
> 
> ---
> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> with subject line: unsubscribe
> 

some thoughts on a screen reader

[Chris Peterson, KG0BP]

Well...  Excuse me if I don't make any sence because I'm not much of a
programmer but...  I was looking at the basic concept of brltty and
thinking...  Oh, I didn't hurt myself to bad.

Anyway, here's my thought.  Brltty has, I think, has quite a few of the
same components necessary to write a screen reader for speech with a
little modification.  The most important thing that's missing, as far as I
can tell, is code to capture the key strokes from the keyboard to perform
the review functions.  After that, it shouldn't be the most complicated
thing in the world to send the necessary info to a synthesizer driver.

Like I say, I'm sort of talking out of my a*s but do I have something
that's worth working on or is it not worth bothering with?  Anyone who
knows what they're doing have any oppinions?

thanks,
Chris