Static IPs

Static IPs

[Karl Dahlke]

Someone described a pseudo-always-on dsl connection from Ameritech,
wherein the company drops you if you're not busy,
and you wake up with a new ip address.
What a frightening thought.

I've just started hosting my own web site, on my own machine,
and I don't know why I didn't take the plunge long ago.
It's easy, and it's fun.
There are numerous advantages, and a couple disadvantages.
Well anyways, it would be unthinkable if I had such a terrible isp.
I certainly can't reprogram all the name servers on the internet
every time they decide to give me a new ip address.
The cable at-home service doesn't work like that,
and I have nothing but good things to say about them.
They even tried to help me set up,
knowing that I was on Linux.
That's pretty rare.

Getting back to the IPs;
one day we lost the bill, or it got lost in the mail, or whatever,
and I was behind, so they turned off the service.
I called with my credit card to turn it back on and asked,
please please please,
can I have my old ip back again.
"Sure, we've been saving it for you."
Now that's class,
and its certainly important to those of us who are hosting our own sites.

Karl Dahlke

Re: Static IPs

[Henry Yen]

On Fri, Sep 07, 2001 at 01:38:57AM -0700, Karl Dahlke wrote:
> Someone described a pseudo-always-on dsl connection from Ameritech,
> wherein the company drops you if you're not busy,
> and you wake up with a new ip address.
> What a frightening thought.

I suppose, but that's the class of service you're paying for (a high-speed
replacement for a modem dial-up).  The service normally afforded to
"home" users doesn't normally allow one to run servers, so having a
static IP address (which wasn't normally available under dial-up
plans, either) isn't an issue.  If you want to be able to host
servers with static IP addresses, you need to purchase "business"-class
services.

That said, there are, in fact, many providers who will sell you "home"
DSL service with a static IP address.

> I've just started hosting my own web site, on my own machine,
> and I don't know why I didn't take the plunge long ago.
> It's easy, and it's fun.

Yes, although I would like to point out that most home-based
web sites often have much, much poorer security than a web
hosting company, and in that regard contribute significantly
to various network floods and attacks (cable service users are
probably the worst).  Web hosting companies will sell you
your own web site which has a static IP, multiple very-high-speed
and redundant internet connections, power backup, etc., all at
a very cheap price (less than $20/month).  There are also various
providers (geocities, etc.) which will give you a website for "free".
Most all of these (free and non-free) come with easy-to-use
website management and monitoring software as well.

That said, there is a significant educational benefit in
running a server system at home.

> There are numerous advantages, and a couple disadvantages.
> Well anyways, it would be unthinkable if I had such a terrible isp.
> I certainly can't reprogram all the name servers on the internet
> every time they decide to give me a new ip address.

There are several "dynamic DNS" providers (many non-free but cheap, and
a few that are free) which will allow you to make more-or-less
real-time DNS changes on-line.  This kind of service will mostly
take care of the dynamic IP address problem.

There is also a service called "URL forwarding" which also eliminates
the problem by assigning a static IP, but invisibly re-directing
to/from the server (dynamic IP address or not) of your choice (a two-way
proxy, so to speak).  I'm not sure if there's anybody doing that
for free, but again it's available cheap (a few dollars a month).

> The cable at-home service doesn't work like that,
> and I have nothing but good things to say about them.

I doubt that their terms of service have much to say regarding how
the service is provided (e.g., static IP address), and they
will no doubt change it in the future, anyway.

> They even tried to help me set up,
> knowing that I was on Linux.
> That's pretty rare.

Yes, but less so as time goes by.

> Getting back to the IPs;
> one day we lost the bill, or it got lost in the mail, or whatever,
> and I was behind, so they turned off the service.
> I called with my credit card to turn it back on and asked,
> please please please,
> can I have my old ip back again.
> "Sure, we've been saving it for you."
> Now that's class,
> and its certainly important to those of us who are hosting our own sites.

You shouldn't count on it, as it will eventually change; also, unfortunately,
your experience is far from universal.

-- 
Henry Yen <henry@AegisInfoSys.com>              Aegis Information Systems, Inc.
Senior Systems Programmer                       Hicksville, New York

Re: Static IPs

[John J. Boyer]

Hello,
For people who aren't running Web servers dynamic IP's are an advantage,
since they make the hacker's job harder. Our DSL service from TDS Metgrocom
uses DHCP.
John

Computers to Help People, Inc.
http://www.chpi.org
825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703


----- Original Message -----
From: "Henry Yen" <blinux-mail@AegisInfoSys.com>
To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 17:17
Subject: Re: Static IPs


> On Fri, Sep 07, 2001 at 01:38:57AM -0700, Karl Dahlke wrote:
> > Someone described a pseudo-always-on dsl connection from Ameritech,
> > wherein the company drops you if you're not busy,
> > and you wake up with a new ip address.
> > What a frightening thought.
>
> I suppose, but that's the class of service you're paying for (a high-speed
> replacement for a modem dial-up).  The service normally afforded to
> "home" users doesn't normally allow one to run servers, so having a
> static IP address (which wasn't normally available under dial-up
> plans, either) isn't an issue.  If you want to be able to host
> servers with static IP addresses, you need to purchase "business"-class
> services.
>
> That said, there are, in fact, many providers who will sell you "home"
> DSL service with a static IP address.
>
> > I've just started hosting my own web site, on my own machine,
> > and I don't know why I didn't take the plunge long ago.
> > It's easy, and it's fun.
>
> Yes, although I would like to point out that most home-based
> web sites often have much, much poorer security than a web
> hosting company, and in that regard contribute significantly
> to various network floods and attacks (cable service users are
> probably the worst).  Web hosting companies will sell you
> your own web site which has a static IP, multiple very-high-speed
> and redundant internet connections, power backup, etc., all at
> a very cheap price (less than $20/month).  There are also various
> providers (geocities, etc.) which will give you a website for "free".
> Most all of these (free and non-free) come with easy-to-use
> website management and monitoring software as well.
>
> That said, there is a significant educational benefit in
> running a server system at home.
>
> > There are numerous advantages, and a couple disadvantages.
> > Well anyways, it would be unthinkable if I had such a terrible isp.
> > I certainly can't reprogram all the name servers on the internet
> > every time they decide to give me a new ip address.
>
> There are several "dynamic DNS" providers (many non-free but cheap, and
> a few that are free) which will allow you to make more-or-less
> real-time DNS changes on-line.  This kind of service will mostly
> take care of the dynamic IP address problem.
>
> There is also a service called "URL forwarding" which also eliminates
> the problem by assigning a static IP, but invisibly re-directing
> to/from the server (dynamic IP address or not) of your choice (a two-way
> proxy, so to speak).  I'm not sure if there's anybody doing that
> for free, but again it's available cheap (a few dollars a month).
>
> > The cable at-home service doesn't work like that,
> > and I have nothing but good things to say about them.
>
> I doubt that their terms of service have much to say regarding how
> the service is provided (e.g., static IP address), and they
> will no doubt change it in the future, anyway.
>
> > They even tried to help me set up,
> > knowing that I was on Linux.
> > That's pretty rare.
>
> Yes, but less so as time goes by.
>
> > Getting back to the IPs;
> > one day we lost the bill, or it got lost in the mail, or whatever,
> > and I was behind, so they turned off the service.
> > I called with my credit card to turn it back on and asked,
> > please please please,
> > can I have my old ip back again.
> > "Sure, we've been saving it for you."
> > Now that's class,
> > and its certainly important to those of us who are hosting our own
sites.
>
> You shouldn't count on it, as it will eventually change; also,
unfortunately,
> your experience is far from universal.
>
> --
> Henry Yen <henry@AegisInfoSys.com>              Aegis Information Systems,
Inc.
> Senior Systems Programmer                       Hicksville, New York
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>

Re: Static IPs

[Janina Sajka]

There are reasons other than serving web pages which make static ips 
attractive. If, for example, one travels and wishes to access one's home 
server over ssh -- that's just an example.

 On Fri, 7 Sep 2001, John J. 
Boyer wrote:

> Hello,
> For people who aren't running Web servers dynamic IP's are an advantage,
> since they make the hacker's job harder. Our DSL service from TDS Metgrocom
> uses DHCP.
> John
> 
> Computers to Help People, Inc.
> http://www.chpi.org
> 825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Henry Yen" <blinux-mail@AegisInfoSys.com>
> To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 17:17
> Subject: Re: Static IPs
> 
> 
> > On Fri, Sep 07, 2001 at 01:38:57AM -0700, Karl Dahlke wrote:
> > > Someone described a pseudo-always-on dsl connection from Ameritech,
> > > wherein the company drops you if you're not busy,
> > > and you wake up with a new ip address.
> > > What a frightening thought.
> >
> > I suppose, but that's the class of service you're paying for (a high-speed
> > replacement for a modem dial-up).  The service normally afforded to
> > "home" users doesn't normally allow one to run servers, so having a
> > static IP address (which wasn't normally available under dial-up
> > plans, either) isn't an issue.  If you want to be able to host
> > servers with static IP addresses, you need to purchase "business"-class
> > services.
> >
> > That said, there are, in fact, many providers who will sell you "home"
> > DSL service with a static IP address.
> >
> > > I've just started hosting my own web site, on my own machine,
> > > and I don't know why I didn't take the plunge long ago.
> > > It's easy, and it's fun.
> >
> > Yes, although I would like to point out that most home-based
> > web sites often have much, much poorer security than a web
> > hosting company, and in that regard contribute significantly
> > to various network floods and attacks (cable service users are
> > probably the worst).  Web hosting companies will sell you
> > your own web site which has a static IP, multiple very-high-speed
> > and redundant internet connections, power backup, etc., all at
> > a very cheap price (less than $20/month).  There are also various
> > providers (geocities, etc.) which will give you a website for "free".
> > Most all of these (free and non-free) come with easy-to-use
> > website management and monitoring software as well.
> >
> > That said, there is a significant educational benefit in
> > running a server system at home.
> >
> > > There are numerous advantages, and a couple disadvantages.
> > > Well anyways, it would be unthinkable if I had such a terrible isp.
> > > I certainly can't reprogram all the name servers on the internet
> > > every time they decide to give me a new ip address.
> >
> > There are several "dynamic DNS" providers (many non-free but cheap, and
> > a few that are free) which will allow you to make more-or-less
> > real-time DNS changes on-line.  This kind of service will mostly
> > take care of the dynamic IP address problem.
> >
> > There is also a service called "URL forwarding" which also eliminates
> > the problem by assigning a static IP, but invisibly re-directing
> > to/from the server (dynamic IP address or not) of your choice (a two-way
> > proxy, so to speak).  I'm not sure if there's anybody doing that
> > for free, but again it's available cheap (a few dollars a month).
> >
> > > The cable at-home service doesn't work like that,
> > > and I have nothing but good things to say about them.
> >
> > I doubt that their terms of service have much to say regarding how
> > the service is provided (e.g., static IP address), and they
> > will no doubt change it in the future, anyway.
> >
> > > They even tried to help me set up,
> > > knowing that I was on Linux.
> > > That's pretty rare.
> >
> > Yes, but less so as time goes by.
> >
> > > Getting back to the IPs;
> > > one day we lost the bill, or it got lost in the mail, or whatever,
> > > and I was behind, so they turned off the service.
> > > I called with my credit card to turn it back on and asked,
> > > please please please,
> > > can I have my old ip back again.
> > > "Sure, we've been saving it for you."
> > > Now that's class,
> > > and its certainly important to those of us who are hosting our own
> sites.
> >
> > You shouldn't count on it, as it will eventually change; also,
> unfortunately,
> > your experience is far from universal.
> >
> > --
> > Henry Yen <henry@AegisInfoSys.com>              Aegis Information Systems,
> Inc.
> > Senior Systems Programmer                       Hicksville, New York
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blinux-list mailing list
> > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Will electronic books surpass print books? Read our white paper,
Surpassing Gutenberg, at http://www.afb.org/ebook.asp

Download a free sample Digital Talking Book edition of Martin Luther
King Jr's inspiring "I Have A Dream" speech at
http://www.afb.org/mlkweb.asp

Learn how to make accessible software at
http://www.afb.org/accessapp.asp

Re: Static IPs

[Ari Moisio]

Hello!
Janina Sajka 07.09.01:

>There are reasons other than serving web pages which make static ips
>attractive. If, for example, one travels and wishes to access one's home
>server over ssh -- that's just an example.

  Just a note: i had a cron script to fetch my pop-mails via ssh tunnel.
On every connection it saves my ip address into public_html directory.
Now i can ssh to my computer from anywhere.

-- 
Mr. Ari Moisio, Niittykatu 7, 41160 Tikkakoski, +358-40-5055239
ari.moisio@iki.fi http://www.iki.fi/arimo PGP-keyID: 0x3FAF0F05

Re: Static IPs

[Andor Demarteau]

On Sun, 9 Sep 2001, Ari Moisio wrote:

 > Hello!
 > Janina Sajka 07.09.01:
 > 
 > >There are reasons other than serving web pages which make static ips
 > >attractive. If, for example, one travels and wishes to access one's home
 > >server over ssh -- that's just an example.
 > 
 >   Just a note: i had a cron script to fetch my pop-mails via ssh tunnel.
 > On every connection it saves my ip address into public_html directory.
 > Now i can ssh to my computer from anywhere.
noce solution, but still I advice to have a look at http://www.dhs.org for
a linked hostname.
Makes sure you don't have to cleanout your .ssh/known_hosts file every week
;)


 > -- 
 > Mr. Ari Moisio, Niittykatu 7, 41160 Tikkakoski, +358-40-5055239
 > ari.moisio@iki.fi http://www.iki.fi/arimo PGP-keyID: 0x3FAF0F05
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > _______________________________________________
 > Blinux-list mailing list
 > Blinux-list@redhat.com
 > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
 > 

slainte mhaith (good health), slainte (cheers)
Uisce Beatha (water of live/health)
-----------
Andor Demarteau                 E-mail: ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl
student computer science        www: http://www.students.cs.uu.nl/~ademarte/
Utrecht University              irc: see webpage for details
-----------
Believe in yourself, know what you want, and make it happen!

Re: Static IPs

[Ari Moisio]

Hello
Andor Demarteau 09.09.01:

>noce solution, but still I advice to have a look at http://www.dhs.org for
>a linked hostname.
>Makes sure you don't have to cleanout your .ssh/known_hosts file every week
>;)

  Nice service but one thing not clear to me: how to keep ip up-to-date
when away from home. Maybe possible with lynx but requires a lot of
script tweaking, i afraid.


-- 
Mr. Ari Moisio, Niittykatu 7, 41160 Tikkakoski, +358-40-5055239
ari.moisio@iki.fi http://www.iki.fi/arimo PGP-keyID: 0x3FAF0F05

Re: Static IPs

[Andor Demarteau]

On Sun, 9 Sep 2001, Ari Moisio wrote:
 >   Nice service but one thing not clear to me: how to keep ip up-to-date
 > when away from home. Maybe possible with lynx but requires a lot of
 > script tweaking, i afraid.
They have linux/unix scripts on there site you cna use, either using lynx
or perl
An entry in /etc/ppp/ip-up.d/ (debian default) should work for updates.
That is, if your link is using pppoe or something simular.
Otherwise a cronjob that checks yoru IP every 15 minutes and if it changes,
updates it to dhs.org will do just fine as well.


 > 
 > -- 
 > Mr. Ari Moisio, Niittykatu 7, 41160 Tikkakoski, +358-40-5055239
 > ari.moisio@iki.fi http://www.iki.fi/arimo PGP-keyID: 0x3FAF0F05
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > _______________________________________________
 > Blinux-list mailing list
 > Blinux-list@redhat.com
 > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
 > 

slainte mhaith (good health), slainte (cheers)
Uisce Beatha (water of live/health)
-----------
Andor Demarteau                 E-mail: ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl
student computer science        www: http://www.students.cs.uu.nl/~ademarte/
Utrecht University              irc: see webpage for details
-----------
Believe in yourself, know what you want, and make it happen!

Re: Static IPs

[Kenny Hitt]

Hi, users of the at-home service have different results depending on where
you are.  In my case; I had to spend a week trying to figure out DHCP.
The tech support were no help.  All they knew was Windows.  I finally
got it working, and love the service, but it started out as a real
pain.  I can't use there web sight with Lynx, but it's no big loss.

          Kenny

On Fri, Sep 07, 2001 at 01:38:57PM -0700, Karl Dahlke wrote:
> Someone described a pseudo-always-on dsl connection from Ameritech,
> wherein the company drops you if you're not busy,
> and you wake up with a new ip address.
> What a frightening thought.
> 
> I've just started hosting my own web site, on my own machine,
> and I don't know why I didn't take the plunge long ago.
> It's easy, and it's fun.
> There are numerous advantages, and a couple disadvantages.
> Well anyways, it would be unthinkable if I had such a terrible isp.
> I certainly can't reprogram all the name servers on the internet
> every time they decide to give me a new ip address.
> The cable at-home service doesn't work like that,
> and I have nothing but good things to say about them.
> They even tried to help me set up,
> knowing that I was on Linux.
> That's pretty rare.
> 
> Getting back to the IPs;
> one day we lost the bill, or it got lost in the mail, or whatever,
> and I was behind, so they turned off the service.
> I called with my credit card to turn it back on and asked,
> please please please,
> can I have my old ip back again.
> "Sure, we've been saving it for you."
> Now that's class,
> and its certainly important to those of us who are hosting our own sites.
> 
> Karl Dahlke
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list

Re: Static IPs

[Andor Demarteau]

On Fri, 7 Sep 2001, Karl Dahlke wrote:

 > Someone described a pseudo-always-on dsl connection from Ameritech,
 > wherein the company drops you if you're not busy,
 > and you wake up with a new ip address.
 > What a frightening thought.
have a look at http://www.dhs.org
great and quick service to get a dynamic-ip with a fixed-hostname.
Works fine.


 > I've just started hosting my own web site, on my own machine,
 > and I don't know why I didn't take the plunge long ago.
 > It's easy, and it's fun.
 > There are numerous advantages, and a couple disadvantages.
 > Well anyways, it would be unthinkable if I had such a terrible isp.
 > I certainly can't reprogram all the name servers on the internet
 > every time they decide to give me a new ip address.
 > The cable at-home service doesn't work like that,
 > and I have nothing but good things to say about them.
 > They even tried to help me set up,
 > knowing that I was on Linux.
 > That's pretty rare.
 > 
 > Getting back to the IPs;
 > one day we lost the bill, or it got lost in the mail, or whatever,
 > and I was behind, so they turned off the service.
 > I called with my credit card to turn it back on and asked,
 > please please please,
 > can I have my old ip back again.
 > "Sure, we've been saving it for you."
 > Now that's class,
 > and its certainly important to those of us who are hosting our own sites.
 > 
 > Karl Dahlke
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > _______________________________________________
 > Blinux-list mailing list
 > Blinux-list@redhat.com
 > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
 > 

slainte mhaith (good health), slainte (cheers)
Uisce Beatha (water of live/health)
-----------
Andor Demarteau                 E-mail: ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl
student computer science        www: http://www.students.cs.uu.nl/~ademarte/
Utrecht University              irc: see webpage for details
-----------
Believe in yourself, know what you want, and make it happen!

Re: Static IPs

[Ray Saldana III]

Carl, one other question, will you share your address with me? I just want
to check it out for curiosity.
    Another question for everyone, I don't use alt tags in my web pages. I
lay the graphics in so if you are using a screen reader you never know they
are there. Do you feel this is a mistake? I myself am always after the text,
and since I am unable to see the pictures, just prefer they lay in and I am
unaware of them. This was my reasoning as I can use the text that is what I
am after, and so prefer the pictures to be left to the sighted community. I
would appreciate others feelings on this.
    I also use Java-applets, but lay them in so a non sighted person never
knows they are there. In other words no interferences with the sharing of
information. Do you guys feel this is a mistake?
    Animations I use and again lay them in the coding so they don't
interfere, sometimes this is not an easy task, but can be accomplished with
some effort. Thanks again!
73 RR
AB7JM
http://personal.riverusers.com/~ab7jm_gila
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andor Demarteau" <ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl>
To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: Static IPs


> On Fri, 7 Sep 2001, Karl Dahlke wrote:
>
>  > Someone described a pseudo-always-on dsl connection from Ameritech,
>  > wherein the company drops you if you're not busy,
>  > and you wake up with a new ip address.
>  > What a frightening thought.
> have a look at http://www.dhs.org
> great and quick service to get a dynamic-ip with a fixed-hostname.
> Works fine.
>
>
>  > I've just started hosting my own web site, on my own machine,
>  > and I don't know why I didn't take the plunge long ago.
>  > It's easy, and it's fun.
>  > There are numerous advantages, and a couple disadvantages.
>  > Well anyways, it would be unthinkable if I had such a terrible isp.
>  > I certainly can't reprogram all the name servers on the internet
>  > every time they decide to give me a new ip address.
>  > The cable at-home service doesn't work like that,
>  > and I have nothing but good things to say about them.
>  > They even tried to help me set up,
>  > knowing that I was on Linux.
>  > That's pretty rare.
>  >
>  > Getting back to the IPs;
>  > one day we lost the bill, or it got lost in the mail, or whatever,
>  > and I was behind, so they turned off the service.
>  > I called with my credit card to turn it back on and asked,
>  > please please please,
>  > can I have my old ip back again.
>  > "Sure, we've been saving it for you."
>  > Now that's class,
>  > and its certainly important to those of us who are hosting our own
sites.
>  >
>  > Karl Dahlke
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > Blinux-list mailing list
>  > Blinux-list@redhat.com
>  > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>  >
>
> slainte mhaith (good health), slainte (cheers)
> Uisce Beatha (water of live/health)
> -----------
> Andor Demarteau                 E-mail: ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl
> student computer science        www:
http://www.students.cs.uu.nl/~ademarte/
> Utrecht University              irc: see webpage for details
> -----------
> Believe in yourself, know what you want, and make it happen!
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>

Re: Static IPs

[John J. Boyer]

Ray,
Jaws will report a graphic even if it has no alt tag. It may give the file
name of the graphic. I feel that a blind user should know when graphics are
there, so he does not appear ignorant to a sighted user. Likewise, a blind
user should know about the presence of other visual elements, and a deaf
user should know about sound elements. I don't want to seem like a fool to
my sighted colleagues.
John

Computers to Help People, Inc.
http://www.chpi.org
825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Saldana III" <raysaldana@theriver.com>
To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 15:03
Subject: Re: Static IPs


> Carl, one other question, will you share your address with me? I just want
> to check it out for curiosity.
>     Another question for everyone, I don't use alt tags in my web pages. I
> lay the graphics in so if you are using a screen reader you never know
they
> are there. Do you feel this is a mistake? I myself am always after the
text,
> and since I am unable to see the pictures, just prefer they lay in and I
am
> unaware of them. This was my reasoning as I can use the text that is what
I
> am after, and so prefer the pictures to be left to the sighted community.
I
> would appreciate others feelings on this.
>     I also use Java-applets, but lay them in so a non sighted person never
> knows they are there. In other words no interferences with the sharing of
> information. Do you guys feel this is a mistake?
>     Animations I use and again lay them in the coding so they don't
> interfere, sometimes this is not an easy task, but can be accomplished
with
> some effort. Thanks again!
> 73 RR
> AB7JM
> http://personal.riverusers.com/~ab7jm_gila
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andor Demarteau" <ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl>
> To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 10:49 AM
> Subject: Re: Static IPs
>
>
> > On Fri, 7 Sep 2001, Karl Dahlke wrote:
> >
> >  > Someone described a pseudo-always-on dsl connection from Ameritech,
> >  > wherein the company drops you if you're not busy,
> >  > and you wake up with a new ip address.
> >  > What a frightening thought.
> > have a look at http://www.dhs.org
> > great and quick service to get a dynamic-ip with a fixed-hostname.
> > Works fine.
> >
> >
> >  > I've just started hosting my own web site, on my own machine,
> >  > and I don't know why I didn't take the plunge long ago.
> >  > It's easy, and it's fun.
> >  > There are numerous advantages, and a couple disadvantages.
> >  > Well anyways, it would be unthinkable if I had such a terrible isp.
> >  > I certainly can't reprogram all the name servers on the internet
> >  > every time they decide to give me a new ip address.
> >  > The cable at-home service doesn't work like that,
> >  > and I have nothing but good things to say about them.
> >  > They even tried to help me set up,
> >  > knowing that I was on Linux.
> >  > That's pretty rare.
> >  >
> >  > Getting back to the IPs;
> >  > one day we lost the bill, or it got lost in the mail, or whatever,
> >  > and I was behind, so they turned off the service.
> >  > I called with my credit card to turn it back on and asked,
> >  > please please please,
> >  > can I have my old ip back again.
> >  > "Sure, we've been saving it for you."
> >  > Now that's class,
> >  > and its certainly important to those of us who are hosting our own
> sites.
> >  >
> >  > Karl Dahlke
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > _______________________________________________
> >  > Blinux-list mailing list
> >  > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> >  > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> >  >
> >
> > slainte mhaith (good health), slainte (cheers)
> > Uisce Beatha (water of live/health)
> > -----------
> > Andor Demarteau                 E-mail: ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl
> > student computer science        www:
> http://www.students.cs.uu.nl/~ademarte/
> > Utrecht University              irc: see webpage for details
> > -----------
> > Believe in yourself, know what you want, and make it happen!
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blinux-list mailing list
> > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>

Re: Static IPs

[Andor Demarteau]

On Sat, 8 Sep 2001, John J. Boyer wrote:

 > Ray,
 > Jaws will report a graphic even if it has no alt tag. It may give the file
 > name of the graphic. I feel that a blind user should know when graphics are
 > there, so he does not appear ignorant to a sighted user. Likewise, a blind
 > user should know about the presence of other visual elements, and a deaf
 > user should know about sound elements. I don't want to seem like a fool to
 > my sighted colleagues.
John, they also can be a little more approciative and know that some things
on a site are not visible for you (or audiable for a deaf person).
Why do we always want to know exactly what sighted people know and make our
lifes that more dificult at the same time.

 > John
 > 
 > Computers to Help People, Inc.
 > http://www.chpi.org
 > 825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703
 > 
 > 
 > ----- Original Message -----
 > From: "Ray Saldana III" <raysaldana@theriver.com>
 > To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
 > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 15:03
 > Subject: Re: Static IPs
 > 
 > 
 > > Carl, one other question, will you share your address with me? I just want
 > > to check it out for curiosity.
 > >     Another question for everyone, I don't use alt tags in my web pages. I
 > > lay the graphics in so if you are using a screen reader you never know
 > they
 > > are there. Do you feel this is a mistake? I myself am always after the
 > text,
 > > and since I am unable to see the pictures, just prefer they lay in and I
 > am
 > > unaware of them. This was my reasoning as I can use the text that is what
 > I
 > > am after, and so prefer the pictures to be left to the sighted community.
 > I
 > > would appreciate others feelings on this.
 > >     I also use Java-applets, but lay them in so a non sighted person never
 > > knows they are there. In other words no interferences with the sharing of
 > > information. Do you guys feel this is a mistake?
 > >     Animations I use and again lay them in the coding so they don't
 > > interfere, sometimes this is not an easy task, but can be accomplished
 > with
 > > some effort. Thanks again!
 > > 73 RR
 > > AB7JM
 > > http://personal.riverusers.com/~ab7jm_gila
 > > ----- Original Message -----
 > > From: "Andor Demarteau" <ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl>
 > > To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
 > > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 10:49 AM
 > > Subject: Re: Static IPs
 > >
 > >
 > > > On Fri, 7 Sep 2001, Karl Dahlke wrote:
 > > >
 > > >  > Someone described a pseudo-always-on dsl connection from Ameritech,
 > > >  > wherein the company drops you if you're not busy,
 > > >  > and you wake up with a new ip address.
 > > >  > What a frightening thought.
 > > > have a look at http://www.dhs.org
 > > > great and quick service to get a dynamic-ip with a fixed-hostname.
 > > > Works fine.
 > > >
 > > >
 > > >  > I've just started hosting my own web site, on my own machine,
 > > >  > and I don't know why I didn't take the plunge long ago.
 > > >  > It's easy, and it's fun.
 > > >  > There are numerous advantages, and a couple disadvantages.
 > > >  > Well anyways, it would be unthinkable if I had such a terrible isp.
 > > >  > I certainly can't reprogram all the name servers on the internet
 > > >  > every time they decide to give me a new ip address.
 > > >  > The cable at-home service doesn't work like that,
 > > >  > and I have nothing but good things to say about them.
 > > >  > They even tried to help me set up,
 > > >  > knowing that I was on Linux.
 > > >  > That's pretty rare.
 > > >  >
 > > >  > Getting back to the IPs;
 > > >  > one day we lost the bill, or it got lost in the mail, or whatever,
 > > >  > and I was behind, so they turned off the service.
 > > >  > I called with my credit card to turn it back on and asked,
 > > >  > please please please,
 > > >  > can I have my old ip back again.
 > > >  > "Sure, we've been saving it for you."
 > > >  > Now that's class,
 > > >  > and its certainly important to those of us who are hosting our own
 > > sites.
 > > >  >
 > > >  > Karl Dahlke
 > > >  >
 > > >  >
 > > >  >
 > > >  > _______________________________________________
 > > >  > Blinux-list mailing list
 > > >  > Blinux-list@redhat.com
 > > >  > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
 > > >  >
 > > >
 > > > slainte mhaith (good health), slainte (cheers)
 > > > Uisce Beatha (water of live/health)
 > > > -----------
 > > > Andor Demarteau                 E-mail: ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl
 > > > student computer science        www:
 > > http://www.students.cs.uu.nl/~ademarte/
 > > > Utrecht University              irc: see webpage for details
 > > > -----------
 > > > Believe in yourself, know what you want, and make it happen!
 > > >
 > > >
 > > >
 > > > _______________________________________________
 > > > Blinux-list mailing list
 > > > Blinux-list@redhat.com
 > > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
 > > >
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > > _______________________________________________
 > > Blinux-list mailing list
 > > Blinux-list@redhat.com
 > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
 > >
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > _______________________________________________
 > Blinux-list mailing list
 > Blinux-list@redhat.com
 > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
 > 

slainte mhaith (good health), slainte (cheers)
Uisce Beatha (water of live/health)
-----------
Andor Demarteau                 E-mail: ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl
student computer science        www: http://www.students.cs.uu.nl/~ademarte/
Utrecht University              irc: see webpage for details
-----------
Believe in yourself, know what you want, and make it happen!

Re: Static IPs

[John J. Boyer]

Andor,
Well, it's partly a matter of personal preference. I have a background of
transcribing math and science books into Braille, where it is important to
at least know that the graphics are there. And I loke to appear to know what
is going on. So I use alt tags. Sometimes it is important for a blind person
to know what pictures are on a page so they can point a sighted friend to
something that might interest them. For example, look at
http://www.chpi.org/refworks.htm
John

Computers to Help People, Inc.
http://www.chpi.org
825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703


----- Original Message -----
From: "Andor Demarteau" <ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl>
To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 15:35
Subject: Re: Static IPs


> On Sat, 8 Sep 2001, John J. Boyer wrote:
>
>  > Ray,
>  > Jaws will report a graphic even if it has no alt tag. It may give the
file
>  > name of the graphic. I feel that a blind user should know when graphics
are
>  > there, so he does not appear ignorant to a sighted user. Likewise, a
blind
>  > user should know about the presence of other visual elements, and a
deaf
>  > user should know about sound elements. I don't want to seem like a fool
to
>  > my sighted colleagues.
> John, they also can be a little more approciative and know that some
things
> on a site are not visible for you (or audiable for a deaf person).
> Why do we always want to know exactly what sighted people know and make
our
> lifes that more dificult at the same time.
>
>  > John
>  >
>  > Computers to Help People, Inc.
>  > http://www.chpi.org
>  > 825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703
>  >
>  >
>  > ----- Original Message -----
>  > From: "Ray Saldana III" <raysaldana@theriver.com>
>  > To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>  > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 15:03
>  > Subject: Re: Static IPs
>  >
>  >
>  > > Carl, one other question, will you share your address with me? I just
want
>  > > to check it out for curiosity.
>  > >     Another question for everyone, I don't use alt tags in my web
pages. I
>  > > lay the graphics in so if you are using a screen reader you never
know
>  > they
>  > > are there. Do you feel this is a mistake? I myself am always after
the
>  > text,
>  > > and since I am unable to see the pictures, just prefer they lay in
and I
>  > am
>  > > unaware of them. This was my reasoning as I can use the text that is
what
>  > I
>  > > am after, and so prefer the pictures to be left to the sighted
community.
>  > I
>  > > would appreciate others feelings on this.
>  > >     I also use Java-applets, but lay them in so a non sighted person
never
>  > > knows they are there. In other words no interferences with the
sharing of
>  > > information. Do you guys feel this is a mistake?
>  > >     Animations I use and again lay them in the coding so they don't
>  > > interfere, sometimes this is not an easy task, but can be
accomplished
>  > with
>  > > some effort. Thanks again!
>  > > 73 RR
>  > > AB7JM
>  > > http://personal.riverusers.com/~ab7jm_gila
>  > > ----- Original Message -----
>  > > From: "Andor Demarteau" <ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl>
>  > > To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>  > > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 10:49 AM
>  > > Subject: Re: Static IPs
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > > On Fri, 7 Sep 2001, Karl Dahlke wrote:
>  > > >
>  > > >  > Someone described a pseudo-always-on dsl connection from
Ameritech,
>  > > >  > wherein the company drops you if you're not busy,
>  > > >  > and you wake up with a new ip address.
>  > > >  > What a frightening thought.
>  > > > have a look at http://www.dhs.org
>  > > > great and quick service to get a dynamic-ip with a fixed-hostname.
>  > > > Works fine.
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >  > I've just started hosting my own web site, on my own machine,
>  > > >  > and I don't know why I didn't take the plunge long ago.
>  > > >  > It's easy, and it's fun.
>  > > >  > There are numerous advantages, and a couple disadvantages.
>  > > >  > Well anyways, it would be unthinkable if I had such a terrible
isp.
>  > > >  > I certainly can't reprogram all the name servers on the internet
>  > > >  > every time they decide to give me a new ip address.
>  > > >  > The cable at-home service doesn't work like that,
>  > > >  > and I have nothing but good things to say about them.
>  > > >  > They even tried to help me set up,
>  > > >  > knowing that I was on Linux.
>  > > >  > That's pretty rare.
>  > > >  >
>  > > >  > Getting back to the IPs;
>  > > >  > one day we lost the bill, or it got lost in the mail, or
whatever,
>  > > >  > and I was behind, so they turned off the service.
>  > > >  > I called with my credit card to turn it back on and asked,
>  > > >  > please please please,
>  > > >  > can I have my old ip back again.
>  > > >  > "Sure, we've been saving it for you."
>  > > >  > Now that's class,
>  > > >  > and its certainly important to those of us who are hosting our
own
>  > > sites.
>  > > >  >
>  > > >  > Karl Dahlke
>  > > >  >
>  > > >  >
>  > > >  >
>  > > >  > _______________________________________________
>  > > >  > Blinux-list mailing list
>  > > >  > Blinux-list@redhat.com
>  > > >  > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>  > > >  >
>  > > >
>  > > > slainte mhaith (good health), slainte (cheers)
>  > > > Uisce Beatha (water of live/health)
>  > > > -----------
>  > > > Andor Demarteau                 E-mail: ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl
>  > > > student computer science        www:
>  > > http://www.students.cs.uu.nl/~ademarte/
>  > > > Utrecht University              irc: see webpage for details
>  > > > -----------
>  > > > Believe in yourself, know what you want, and make it happen!
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > > _______________________________________________
>  > > > Blinux-list mailing list
>  > > > Blinux-list@redhat.com
>  > > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>  > > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > _______________________________________________
>  > > Blinux-list mailing list
>  > > Blinux-list@redhat.com
>  > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>  > >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > Blinux-list mailing list
>  > Blinux-list@redhat.com
>  > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>  >
>
> slainte mhaith (good health), slainte (cheers)
> Uisce Beatha (water of live/health)
> -----------
> Andor Demarteau                 E-mail: ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl
> student computer science        www:
http://www.students.cs.uu.nl/~ademarte/
> Utrecht University              irc: see webpage for details
> -----------
> Believe in yourself, know what you want, and make it happen!
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>

Re: Static IPs

[Andor Demarteau]

On Sat, 8 Sep 2001, John J. Boyer wrote:

 > Andor,
 > Well, it's partly a matter of personal preference. I have a background of
 > transcribing math and science books into Braille, where it is important to
 > at least know that the graphics are there. And I loke to appear to know what
 > is going on. So I use alt tags. Sometimes it is important for a blind person
 > to know what pictures are on a page so they can point a sighted friend to
 > something that might interest them. For example, look at
As I agree on that, alt-tags are more inportant on clicable stuff.
As images mostly have a rahter well choosen name, the filename mostly says
enough.
Some people owever use over 20 character alt-tags which (I think) are
really too big.


 > http://www.chpi.org/refworks.htm
 > John
 > 
 > Computers to Help People, Inc.
 > http://www.chpi.org
 > 825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703
 > 
 > 
 > ----- Original Message -----
 > From: "Andor Demarteau" <ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl>
 > To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
 > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 15:35
 > Subject: Re: Static IPs
 > 
 > 
 > > On Sat, 8 Sep 2001, John J. Boyer wrote:
 > >
 > >  > Ray,
 > >  > Jaws will report a graphic even if it has no alt tag. It may give the
 > file
 > >  > name of the graphic. I feel that a blind user should know when graphics
 > are
 > >  > there, so he does not appear ignorant to a sighted user. Likewise, a
 > blind
 > >  > user should know about the presence of other visual elements, and a
 > deaf
 > >  > user should know about sound elements. I don't want to seem like a fool
 > to
 > >  > my sighted colleagues.
 > > John, they also can be a little more approciative and know that some
 > things
 > > on a site are not visible for you (or audiable for a deaf person).
 > > Why do we always want to know exactly what sighted people know and make
 > our
 > > lifes that more dificult at the same time.
 > >
 > >  > John
 > >  >
 > >  > Computers to Help People, Inc.
 > >  > http://www.chpi.org
 > >  > 825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703
 > >  >
 > >  >
 > >  > ----- Original Message -----
 > >  > From: "Ray Saldana III" <raysaldana@theriver.com>
 > >  > To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
 > >  > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 15:03
 > >  > Subject: Re: Static IPs
 > >  >
 > >  >
 > >  > > Carl, one other question, will you share your address with me? I just
 > want
 > >  > > to check it out for curiosity.
 > >  > >     Another question for everyone, I don't use alt tags in my web
 > pages. I
 > >  > > lay the graphics in so if you are using a screen reader you never
 > know
 > >  > they
 > >  > > are there. Do you feel this is a mistake? I myself am always after
 > the
 > >  > text,
 > >  > > and since I am unable to see the pictures, just prefer they lay in
 > and I
 > >  > am
 > >  > > unaware of them. This was my reasoning as I can use the text that is
 > what
 > >  > I
 > >  > > am after, and so prefer the pictures to be left to the sighted
 > community.
 > >  > I
 > >  > > would appreciate others feelings on this.
 > >  > >     I also use Java-applets, but lay them in so a non sighted person
 > never
 > >  > > knows they are there. In other words no interferences with the
 > sharing of
 > >  > > information. Do you guys feel this is a mistake?
 > >  > >     Animations I use and again lay them in the coding so they don't
 > >  > > interfere, sometimes this is not an easy task, but can be
 > accomplished
 > >  > with
 > >  > > some effort. Thanks again!
 > >  > > 73 RR
 > >  > > AB7JM
 > >  > > http://personal.riverusers.com/~ab7jm_gila
 > >  > > ----- Original Message -----
 > >  > > From: "Andor Demarteau" <ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl>
 > >  > > To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
 > >  > > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 10:49 AM
 > >  > > Subject: Re: Static IPs
 > >  > >
 > >  > >
 > >  > > > On Fri, 7 Sep 2001, Karl Dahlke wrote:
 > >  > > >
 > >  > > >  > Someone described a pseudo-always-on dsl connection from
 > Ameritech,
 > >  > > >  > wherein the company drops you if you're not busy,
 > >  > > >  > and you wake up with a new ip address.
 > >  > > >  > What a frightening thought.
 > >  > > > have a look at http://www.dhs.org
 > >  > > > great and quick service to get a dynamic-ip with a fixed-hostname.
 > >  > > > Works fine.
 > >  > > >
 > >  > > >
 > >  > > >  > I've just started hosting my own web site, on my own machine,
 > >  > > >  > and I don't know why I didn't take the plunge long ago.
 > >  > > >  > It's easy, and it's fun.
 > >  > > >  > There are numerous advantages, and a couple disadvantages.
 > >  > > >  > Well anyways, it would be unthinkable if I had such a terrible
 > isp.
 > >  > > >  > I certainly can't reprogram all the name servers on the internet
 > >  > > >  > every time they decide to give me a new ip address.
 > >  > > >  > The cable at-home service doesn't work like that,
 > >  > > >  > and I have nothing but good things to say about them.
 > >  > > >  > They even tried to help me set up,
 > >  > > >  > knowing that I was on Linux.
 > >  > > >  > That's pretty rare.
 > >  > > >  >
 > >  > > >  > Getting back to the IPs;
 > >  > > >  > one day we lost the bill, or it got lost in the mail, or
 > whatever,
 > >  > > >  > and I was behind, so they turned off the service.
 > >  > > >  > I called with my credit card to turn it back on and asked,
 > >  > > >  > please please please,
 > >  > > >  > can I have my old ip back again.
 > >  > > >  > "Sure, we've been saving it for you."
 > >  > > >  > Now that's class,
 > >  > > >  > and its certainly important to those of us who are hosting our
 > own
 > >  > > sites.
 > >  > > >  >
 > >  > > >  > Karl Dahlke
 > >  > > >  >
 > >  > > >  >
 > >  > > >  >
 > >  > > >  > _______________________________________________
 > >  > > >  > Blinux-list mailing list
 > >  > > >  > Blinux-list@redhat.com
 > >  > > >  > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
 > >  > > >  >
 > >  > > >
 > >  > > > slainte mhaith (good health), slainte (cheers)
 > >  > > > Uisce Beatha (water of live/health)
 > >  > > > -----------
 > >  > > > Andor Demarteau                 E-mail: ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl
 > >  > > > student computer science        www:
 > >  > > http://www.students.cs.uu.nl/~ademarte/
 > >  > > > Utrecht University              irc: see webpage for details
 > >  > > > -----------
 > >  > > > Believe in yourself, know what you want, and make it happen!
 > >  > > >
 > >  > > >
 > >  > > >
 > >  > > > _______________________________________________
 > >  > > > Blinux-list mailing list
 > >  > > > Blinux-list@redhat.com
 > >  > > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
 > >  > > >
 > >  > >
 > >  > >
 > >  > >
 > >  > > _______________________________________________
 > >  > > Blinux-list mailing list
 > >  > > Blinux-list@redhat.com
 > >  > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
 > >  > >
 > >  >
 > >  >
 > >  >
 > >  >
 > >  > _______________________________________________
 > >  > Blinux-list mailing list
 > >  > Blinux-list@redhat.com
 > >  > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
 > >  >
 > >
 > > slainte mhaith (good health), slainte (cheers)
 > > Uisce Beatha (water of live/health)
 > > -----------
 > > Andor Demarteau                 E-mail: ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl
 > > student computer science        www:
 > http://www.students.cs.uu.nl/~ademarte/
 > > Utrecht University              irc: see webpage for details
 > > -----------
 > > Believe in yourself, know what you want, and make it happen!
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > > _______________________________________________
 > > Blinux-list mailing list
 > > Blinux-list@redhat.com
 > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
 > >
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > _______________________________________________
 > Blinux-list mailing list
 > Blinux-list@redhat.com
 > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
 > 

slainte mhaith (good health), slainte (cheers)
Uisce Beatha (water of live/health)
-----------
Andor Demarteau                 E-mail: ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl
student computer science        www: http://www.students.cs.uu.nl/~ademarte/
Utrecht University              irc: see webpage for details
-----------
Believe in yourself, know what you want, and make it happen!

Re: Static IPs

[Ray Saldana III]

One of the sites I do commercially is www.marthamyhre.com there are graphics
on it, and also applets, but I install them in such a way that if you are
using a screen reader you will never be aware of them, and the text reads
such that they are not needed for content. I use them as entertainment for
the sighted community, as we know they are like children we must entertain
them some.
    My personal feeling is such that if it is not related to content then I
would not deal with them, and get to the mustard of it all. So I appreciate
your ideas so I know how others feel about it.
    For the web there are techniques to make everything readable for us and
easy to use. Little things such as when building a form coding in the last
button underneath the final button so it is read correctly, and it still
looks god to a sighted person, yet is still very functional for us. Of
course it is a bit more work, but it works better. I just try to install
things so they are good for the sighted as there are so many more of them,
and still offer us the ability to get what we need from them also. It
sometimes becomes a bit of a chore. I do however appreciate your thoughts
and ideas.
    The one thing I can say for sure is we will not get out of this alive
though.
73 RR
AB7JM
http://personal.riverusers.com/~ab7jm_gila
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andor Demarteau" <ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl>
To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 12:35 PM
Subject: Re: Static IPs


> On Sat, 8 Sep 2001, John J. Boyer wrote:
>
>  > Ray,
>  > Jaws will report a graphic even if it has no alt tag. It may give the
file
>  > name of the graphic. I feel that a blind user should know when graphics
are
>  > there, so he does not appear ignorant to a sighted user. Likewise, a
blind
>  > user should know about the presence of other visual elements, and a
deaf
>  > user should know about sound elements. I don't want to seem like a fool
to
>  > my sighted colleagues.
> John, they also can be a little more approciative and know that some
things
> on a site are not visible for you (or audiable for a deaf person).
> Why do we always want to know exactly what sighted people know and make
our
> lifes that more dificult at the same time.
>
>  > John
>  >
>  > Computers to Help People, Inc.
>  > http://www.chpi.org
>  > 825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703
>  >
>  >
>  > ----- Original Message -----
>  > From: "Ray Saldana III" <raysaldana@theriver.com>
>  > To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>  > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 15:03
>  > Subject: Re: Static IPs
>  >
>  >
>  > > Carl, one other question, will you share your address with me? I just
want
>  > > to check it out for curiosity.
>  > >     Another question for everyone, I don't use alt tags in my web
pages. I
>  > > lay the graphics in so if you are using a screen reader you never
know
>  > they
>  > > are there. Do you feel this is a mistake? I myself am always after
the
>  > text,
>  > > and since I am unable to see the pictures, just prefer they lay in
and I
>  > am
>  > > unaware of them. This was my reasoning as I can use the text that is
what
>  > I
>  > > am after, and so prefer the pictures to be left to the sighted
community.
>  > I
>  > > would appreciate others feelings on this.
>  > >     I also use Java-applets, but lay them in so a non sighted person
never
>  > > knows they are there. In other words no interferences with the
sharing of
>  > > information. Do you guys feel this is a mistake?
>  > >     Animations I use and again lay them in the coding so they don't
>  > > interfere, sometimes this is not an easy task, but can be
accomplished
>  > with
>  > > some effort. Thanks again!
>  > > 73 RR
>  > > AB7JM
>  > > http://personal.riverusers.com/~ab7jm_gila
>  > > ----- Original Message -----
>  > > From: "Andor Demarteau" <ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl>
>  > > To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>  > > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 10:49 AM
>  > > Subject: Re: Static IPs
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > > On Fri, 7 Sep 2001, Karl Dahlke wrote:
>  > > >
>  > > >  > Someone described a pseudo-always-on dsl connection from
Ameritech,
>  > > >  > wherein the company drops you if you're not busy,
>  > > >  > and you wake up with a new ip address.
>  > > >  > What a frightening thought.
>  > > > have a look at http://www.dhs.org
>  > > > great and quick service to get a dynamic-ip with a fixed-hostname.
>  > > > Works fine.
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >  > I've just started hosting my own web site, on my own machine,
>  > > >  > and I don't know why I didn't take the plunge long ago.
>  > > >  > It's easy, and it's fun.
>  > > >  > There are numerous advantages, and a couple disadvantages.
>  > > >  > Well anyways, it would be unthinkable if I had such a terrible
isp.
>  > > >  > I certainly can't reprogram all the name servers on the internet
>  > > >  > every time they decide to give me a new ip address.
>  > > >  > The cable at-home service doesn't work like that,
>  > > >  > and I have nothing but good things to say about them.
>  > > >  > They even tried to help me set up,
>  > > >  > knowing that I was on Linux.
>  > > >  > That's pretty rare.
>  > > >  >
>  > > >  > Getting back to the IPs;
>  > > >  > one day we lost the bill, or it got lost in the mail, or
whatever,
>  > > >  > and I was behind, so they turned off the service.
>  > > >  > I called with my credit card to turn it back on and asked,
>  > > >  > please please please,
>  > > >  > can I have my old ip back again.
>  > > >  > "Sure, we've been saving it for you."
>  > > >  > Now that's class,
>  > > >  > and its certainly important to those of us who are hosting our
own
>  > > sites.
>  > > >  >
>  > > >  > Karl Dahlke
>  > > >  >
>  > > >  >
>  > > >  >
>  > > >  > _______________________________________________
>  > > >  > Blinux-list mailing list
>  > > >  > Blinux-list@redhat.com
>  > > >  > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>  > > >  >
>  > > >
>  > > > slainte mhaith (good health), slainte (cheers)
>  > > > Uisce Beatha (water of live/health)
>  > > > -----------
>  > > > Andor Demarteau                 E-mail: ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl
>  > > > student computer science        www:
>  > > http://www.students.cs.uu.nl/~ademarte/
>  > > > Utrecht University              irc: see webpage for details
>  > > > -----------
>  > > > Believe in yourself, know what you want, and make it happen!
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > >
>  > > > _______________________________________________
>  > > > Blinux-list mailing list
>  > > > Blinux-list@redhat.com
>  > > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>  > > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > _______________________________________________
>  > > Blinux-list mailing list
>  > > Blinux-list@redhat.com
>  > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>  > >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > Blinux-list mailing list
>  > Blinux-list@redhat.com
>  > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>  >
>
> slainte mhaith (good health), slainte (cheers)
> Uisce Beatha (water of live/health)
> -----------
> Andor Demarteau                 E-mail: ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl
> student computer science        www:
http://www.students.cs.uu.nl/~ademarte/
> Utrecht University              irc: see webpage for details
> -----------
> Believe in yourself, know what you want, and make it happen!
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>

Re: Static IPs

[John J. Boyer]

Ray,
I looked at the Web page you indicated, but I couldn't see how you hide the
graphics from the screen reader, unless you use the aplet to do so. I didn't
see any indication of graphics in the source.
John

Computers to Help People, Inc.
http://www.chpi.org
825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray Saldana III" <raysaldana@theriver.com>
To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 16:19
Subject: Re: Static IPs


> One of the sites I do commercially is www.marthamyhre.com there are
graphics
> on it, and also applets, but I install them in such a way that if you are
> using a screen reader you will never be aware of them, and the text reads
> such that they are not needed for content. I use them as entertainment for
> the sighted community, as we know they are like children we must entertain
> them some.
>     My personal feeling is such that if it is not related to content then
I
> would not deal with them, and get to the mustard of it all. So I
appreciate
> your ideas so I know how others feel about it.
>     For the web there are techniques to make everything readable for us
and
> easy to use. Little things such as when building a form coding in the last
> button underneath the final button so it is read correctly, and it still
> looks god to a sighted person, yet is still very functional for us. Of
> course it is a bit more work, but it works better. I just try to install
> things so they are good for the sighted as there are so many more of them,
> and still offer us the ability to get what we need from them also. It
> sometimes becomes a bit of a chore. I do however appreciate your thoughts
> and ideas.
>     The one thing I can say for sure is we will not get out of this alive
> though.
> 73 RR
> AB7JM
> http://personal.riverusers.com/~ab7jm_gila
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andor Demarteau" <ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl>
> To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 12:35 PM
> Subject: Re: Static IPs
>
>
> > On Sat, 8 Sep 2001, John J. Boyer wrote:
> >
> >  > Ray,
> >  > Jaws will report a graphic even if it has no alt tag. It may give the
> file
> >  > name of the graphic. I feel that a blind user should know when
graphics
> are
> >  > there, so he does not appear ignorant to a sighted user. Likewise, a
> blind
> >  > user should know about the presence of other visual elements, and a
> deaf
> >  > user should know about sound elements. I don't want to seem like a
fool
> to
> >  > my sighted colleagues.
> > John, they also can be a little more approciative and know that some
> things
> > on a site are not visible for you (or audiable for a deaf person).
> > Why do we always want to know exactly what sighted people know and make
> our
> > lifes that more dificult at the same time.
> >
> >  > John
> >  >
> >  > Computers to Help People, Inc.
> >  > http://www.chpi.org
> >  > 825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > ----- Original Message -----
> >  > From: "Ray Saldana III" <raysaldana@theriver.com>
> >  > To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> >  > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 15:03
> >  > Subject: Re: Static IPs
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > > Carl, one other question, will you share your address with me? I
just
> want
> >  > > to check it out for curiosity.
> >  > >     Another question for everyone, I don't use alt tags in my web
> pages. I
> >  > > lay the graphics in so if you are using a screen reader you never
> know
> >  > they
> >  > > are there. Do you feel this is a mistake? I myself am always after
> the
> >  > text,
> >  > > and since I am unable to see the pictures, just prefer they lay in
> and I
> >  > am
> >  > > unaware of them. This was my reasoning as I can use the text that
is
> what
> >  > I
> >  > > am after, and so prefer the pictures to be left to the sighted
> community.
> >  > I
> >  > > would appreciate others feelings on this.
> >  > >     I also use Java-applets, but lay them in so a non sighted
person
> never
> >  > > knows they are there. In other words no interferences with the
> sharing of
> >  > > information. Do you guys feel this is a mistake?
> >  > >     Animations I use and again lay them in the coding so they don't
> >  > > interfere, sometimes this is not an easy task, but can be
> accomplished
> >  > with
> >  > > some effort. Thanks again!
> >  > > 73 RR
> >  > > AB7JM
> >  > > http://personal.riverusers.com/~ab7jm_gila
> >  > > ----- Original Message -----
> >  > > From: "Andor Demarteau" <ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl>
> >  > > To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> >  > > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 10:49 AM
> >  > > Subject: Re: Static IPs
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > > > On Fri, 7 Sep 2001, Karl Dahlke wrote:
> >  > > >
> >  > > >  > Someone described a pseudo-always-on dsl connection from
> Ameritech,
> >  > > >  > wherein the company drops you if you're not busy,
> >  > > >  > and you wake up with a new ip address.
> >  > > >  > What a frightening thought.
> >  > > > have a look at http://www.dhs.org
> >  > > > great and quick service to get a dynamic-ip with a
fixed-hostname.
> >  > > > Works fine.
> >  > > >
> >  > > >
> >  > > >  > I've just started hosting my own web site, on my own machine,
> >  > > >  > and I don't know why I didn't take the plunge long ago.
> >  > > >  > It's easy, and it's fun.
> >  > > >  > There are numerous advantages, and a couple disadvantages.
> >  > > >  > Well anyways, it would be unthinkable if I had such a terrible
> isp.
> >  > > >  > I certainly can't reprogram all the name servers on the
internet
> >  > > >  > every time they decide to give me a new ip address.
> >  > > >  > The cable at-home service doesn't work like that,
> >  > > >  > and I have nothing but good things to say about them.
> >  > > >  > They even tried to help me set up,
> >  > > >  > knowing that I was on Linux.
> >  > > >  > That's pretty rare.
> >  > > >  >
> >  > > >  > Getting back to the IPs;
> >  > > >  > one day we lost the bill, or it got lost in the mail, or
> whatever,
> >  > > >  > and I was behind, so they turned off the service.
> >  > > >  > I called with my credit card to turn it back on and asked,
> >  > > >  > please please please,
> >  > > >  > can I have my old ip back again.
> >  > > >  > "Sure, we've been saving it for you."
> >  > > >  > Now that's class,
> >  > > >  > and its certainly important to those of us who are hosting our
> own
> >  > > sites.
> >  > > >  >
> >  > > >  > Karl Dahlke
> >  > > >  >
> >  > > >  >
> >  > > >  >
> >  > > >  > _______________________________________________
> >  > > >  > Blinux-list mailing list
> >  > > >  > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> >  > > >  > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> >  > > >  >
> >  > > >
> >  > > > slainte mhaith (good health), slainte (cheers)
> >  > > > Uisce Beatha (water of live/health)
> >  > > > -----------
> >  > > > Andor Demarteau                 E-mail:
ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl
> >  > > > student computer science        www:
> >  > > http://www.students.cs.uu.nl/~ademarte/
> >  > > > Utrecht University              irc: see webpage for details
> >  > > > -----------
> >  > > > Believe in yourself, know what you want, and make it happen!
> >  > > >
> >  > > >
> >  > > >
> >  > > > _______________________________________________
> >  > > > Blinux-list mailing list
> >  > > > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> >  > > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> >  > > >
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > > _______________________________________________
> >  > > Blinux-list mailing list
> >  > > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> >  > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> >  > >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > _______________________________________________
> >  > Blinux-list mailing list
> >  > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> >  > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> >  >
> >
> > slainte mhaith (good health), slainte (cheers)
> > Uisce Beatha (water of live/health)
> > -----------
> > Andor Demarteau                 E-mail: ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl
> > student computer science        www:
> http://www.students.cs.uu.nl/~ademarte/
> > Utrecht University              irc: see webpage for details
> > -----------
> > Believe in yourself, know what you want, and make it happen!
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blinux-list mailing list
> > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>

Re: Static IPs

[Ray Saldana III]

Yes it is all PHP so it is parsed before it reaches the web. No coding shows
this way yet the renderings are there.
73 RR
AB7JM
http://personal.riverusers.com/~ab7jm_gila
----- Original Message -----
From: "John J. Boyer" <director@chpi.org>
To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: Static IPs


> Ray,
> I looked at the Web page you indicated, but I couldn't see how you hide
the
> graphics from the screen reader, unless you use the aplet to do so. I
didn't
> see any indication of graphics in the source.
> John
>
> Computers to Help People, Inc.
> http://www.chpi.org
> 825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ray Saldana III" <raysaldana@theriver.com>
> To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 16:19
> Subject: Re: Static IPs
>
>
> > One of the sites I do commercially is www.marthamyhre.com there are
> graphics
> > on it, and also applets, but I install them in such a way that if you
are
> > using a screen reader you will never be aware of them, and the text
reads
> > such that they are not needed for content. I use them as entertainment
for
> > the sighted community, as we know they are like children we must
entertain
> > them some.
> >     My personal feeling is such that if it is not related to content
then
> I
> > would not deal with them, and get to the mustard of it all. So I
> appreciate
> > your ideas so I know how others feel about it.
> >     For the web there are techniques to make everything readable for us
> and
> > easy to use. Little things such as when building a form coding in the
last
> > button underneath the final button so it is read correctly, and it still
> > looks god to a sighted person, yet is still very functional for us. Of
> > course it is a bit more work, but it works better. I just try to install
> > things so they are good for the sighted as there are so many more of
them,
> > and still offer us the ability to get what we need from them also. It
> > sometimes becomes a bit of a chore. I do however appreciate your
thoughts
> > and ideas.
> >     The one thing I can say for sure is we will not get out of this
alive
> > though.
> > 73 RR
> > AB7JM
> > http://personal.riverusers.com/~ab7jm_gila
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Andor Demarteau" <ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl>
> > To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 12:35 PM
> > Subject: Re: Static IPs
> >
> >
> > > On Sat, 8 Sep 2001, John J. Boyer wrote:
> > >
> > >  > Ray,
> > >  > Jaws will report a graphic even if it has no alt tag. It may give
the
> > file
> > >  > name of the graphic. I feel that a blind user should know when
> graphics
> > are
> > >  > there, so he does not appear ignorant to a sighted user. Likewise,
a
> > blind
> > >  > user should know about the presence of other visual elements, and a
> > deaf
> > >  > user should know about sound elements. I don't want to seem like a
> fool
> > to
> > >  > my sighted colleagues.
> > > John, they also can be a little more approciative and know that some
> > things
> > > on a site are not visible for you (or audiable for a deaf person).
> > > Why do we always want to know exactly what sighted people know and
make
> > our
> > > lifes that more dificult at the same time.
> > >
> > >  > John
> > >  >
> > >  > Computers to Help People, Inc.
> > >  > http://www.chpi.org
> > >  > 825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703
> > >  >
> > >  >
> > >  > ----- Original Message -----
> > >  > From: "Ray Saldana III" <raysaldana@theriver.com>
> > >  > To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> > >  > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 15:03
> > >  > Subject: Re: Static IPs
> > >  >
> > >  >
> > >  > > Carl, one other question, will you share your address with me? I
> just
> > want
> > >  > > to check it out for curiosity.
> > >  > >     Another question for everyone, I don't use alt tags in my web
> > pages. I
> > >  > > lay the graphics in so if you are using a screen reader you never
> > know
> > >  > they
> > >  > > are there. Do you feel this is a mistake? I myself am always
after
> > the
> > >  > text,
> > >  > > and since I am unable to see the pictures, just prefer they lay
in
> > and I
> > >  > am
> > >  > > unaware of them. This was my reasoning as I can use the text that
> is
> > what
> > >  > I
> > >  > > am after, and so prefer the pictures to be left to the sighted
> > community.
> > >  > I
> > >  > > would appreciate others feelings on this.
> > >  > >     I also use Java-applets, but lay them in so a non sighted
> person
> > never
> > >  > > knows they are there. In other words no interferences with the
> > sharing of
> > >  > > information. Do you guys feel this is a mistake?
> > >  > >     Animations I use and again lay them in the coding so they
don't
> > >  > > interfere, sometimes this is not an easy task, but can be
> > accomplished
> > >  > with
> > >  > > some effort. Thanks again!
> > >  > > 73 RR
> > >  > > AB7JM
> > >  > > http://personal.riverusers.com/~ab7jm_gila
> > >  > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >  > > From: "Andor Demarteau" <ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl>
> > >  > > To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> > >  > > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 10:49 AM
> > >  > > Subject: Re: Static IPs
> > >  > >
> > >  > >
> > >  > > > On Fri, 7 Sep 2001, Karl Dahlke wrote:
> > >  > > >
> > >  > > >  > Someone described a pseudo-always-on dsl connection from
> > Ameritech,
> > >  > > >  > wherein the company drops you if you're not busy,
> > >  > > >  > and you wake up with a new ip address.
> > >  > > >  > What a frightening thought.
> > >  > > > have a look at http://www.dhs.org
> > >  > > > great and quick service to get a dynamic-ip with a
> fixed-hostname.
> > >  > > > Works fine.
> > >  > > >
> > >  > > >
> > >  > > >  > I've just started hosting my own web site, on my own
machine,
> > >  > > >  > and I don't know why I didn't take the plunge long ago.
> > >  > > >  > It's easy, and it's fun.
> > >  > > >  > There are numerous advantages, and a couple disadvantages.
> > >  > > >  > Well anyways, it would be unthinkable if I had such a
terrible
> > isp.
> > >  > > >  > I certainly can't reprogram all the name servers on the
> internet
> > >  > > >  > every time they decide to give me a new ip address.
> > >  > > >  > The cable at-home service doesn't work like that,
> > >  > > >  > and I have nothing but good things to say about them.
> > >  > > >  > They even tried to help me set up,
> > >  > > >  > knowing that I was on Linux.
> > >  > > >  > That's pretty rare.
> > >  > > >  >
> > >  > > >  > Getting back to the IPs;
> > >  > > >  > one day we lost the bill, or it got lost in the mail, or
> > whatever,
> > >  > > >  > and I was behind, so they turned off the service.
> > >  > > >  > I called with my credit card to turn it back on and asked,
> > >  > > >  > please please please,
> > >  > > >  > can I have my old ip back again.
> > >  > > >  > "Sure, we've been saving it for you."
> > >  > > >  > Now that's class,
> > >  > > >  > and its certainly important to those of us who are hosting
our
> > own
> > >  > > sites.
> > >  > > >  >
> > >  > > >  > Karl Dahlke
> > >  > > >  >
> > >  > > >  >
> > >  > > >  >
> > >  > > >  > _______________________________________________
> > >  > > >  > Blinux-list mailing list
> > >  > > >  > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > >  > > >  > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> > >  > > >  >
> > >  > > >
> > >  > > > slainte mhaith (good health), slainte (cheers)
> > >  > > > Uisce Beatha (water of live/health)
> > >  > > > -----------
> > >  > > > Andor Demarteau                 E-mail:
> ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl
> > >  > > > student computer science        www:
> > >  > > http://www.students.cs.uu.nl/~ademarte/
> > >  > > > Utrecht University              irc: see webpage for details
> > >  > > > -----------
> > >  > > > Believe in yourself, know what you want, and make it happen!
> > >  > > >
> > >  > > >
> > >  > > >
> > >  > > > _______________________________________________
> > >  > > > Blinux-list mailing list
> > >  > > > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > >  > > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> > >  > > >
> > >  > >
> > >  > >
> > >  > >
> > >  > > _______________________________________________
> > >  > > Blinux-list mailing list
> > >  > > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > >  > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> > >  > >
> > >  >
> > >  >
> > >  >
> > >  >
> > >  > _______________________________________________
> > >  > Blinux-list mailing list
> > >  > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > >  > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> > >  >
> > >
> > > slainte mhaith (good health), slainte (cheers)
> > > Uisce Beatha (water of live/health)
> > > -----------
> > > Andor Demarteau                 E-mail: ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl
> > > student computer science        www:
> > http://www.students.cs.uu.nl/~ademarte/
> > > Utrecht University              irc: see webpage for details
> > > -----------
> > > Believe in yourself, know what you want, and make it happen!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Blinux-list mailing list
> > > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blinux-list mailing list
> > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> >
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>

Re: Static IPs

[Andor Demarteau]

On Sat, 8 Sep 2001, Ray Saldana III wrote:

 > Yes it is all PHP so it is parsed before it reaches the web. No coding shows
 > this way yet the renderings are there.
For the information of all:
In php a simple variable shows what browser with what capabilities is used
to access the pages.
This simply can be used to screen-out images/applets if necessary/wanted.

I'll write a script that will display all info about a user visiting a page
and put it on the web, I'll post teh url here so everyone can look at it
(the results and the source).

 > 73 RR
 > AB7JM
 > http://personal.riverusers.com/~ab7jm_gila
 > ----- Original Message -----
 > From: "John J. Boyer" <director@chpi.org>
 > To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
 > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 1:39 PM
 > Subject: Re: Static IPs
 > 
 > 
 > > Ray,
 > > I looked at the Web page you indicated, but I couldn't see how you hide
 > the
 > > graphics from the screen reader, unless you use the aplet to do so. I
 > didn't
 > > see any indication of graphics in the source.
 > > John
 > >
 > > Computers to Help People, Inc.
 > > http://www.chpi.org
 > > 825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703
 > >
 > >
 > > ----- Original Message -----
 > > From: "Ray Saldana III" <raysaldana@theriver.com>
 > > To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
 > > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 16:19
 > > Subject: Re: Static IPs
 > >
 > >
 > > > One of the sites I do commercially is www.marthamyhre.com there are
 > > graphics
 > > > on it, and also applets, but I install them in such a way that if you
 > are
 > > > using a screen reader you will never be aware of them, and the text
 > reads
 > > > such that they are not needed for content. I use them as entertainment
 > for
 > > > the sighted community, as we know they are like children we must
 > entertain
 > > > them some.
 > > >     My personal feeling is such that if it is not related to content
 > then
 > > I
 > > > would not deal with them, and get to the mustard of it all. So I
 > > appreciate
 > > > your ideas so I know how others feel about it.
 > > >     For the web there are techniques to make everything readable for us
 > > and
 > > > easy to use. Little things such as when building a form coding in the
 > last
 > > > button underneath the final button so it is read correctly, and it still
 > > > looks god to a sighted person, yet is still very functional for us. Of
 > > > course it is a bit more work, but it works better. I just try to install
 > > > things so they are good for the sighted as there are so many more of
 > them,
 > > > and still offer us the ability to get what we need from them also. It
 > > > sometimes becomes a bit of a chore. I do however appreciate your
 > thoughts
 > > > and ideas.
 > > >     The one thing I can say for sure is we will not get out of this
 > alive
 > > > though.
 > > > 73 RR
 > > > AB7JM
 > > > http://personal.riverusers.com/~ab7jm_gila
 > > > ----- Original Message -----
 > > > From: "Andor Demarteau" <ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl>
 > > > To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
 > > > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 12:35 PM
 > > > Subject: Re: Static IPs
 > > >
 > > >
 > > > > On Sat, 8 Sep 2001, John J. Boyer wrote:
 > > > >
 > > > >  > Ray,
 > > > >  > Jaws will report a graphic even if it has no alt tag. It may give
 > the
 > > > file
 > > > >  > name of the graphic. I feel that a blind user should know when
 > > graphics
 > > > are
 > > > >  > there, so he does not appear ignorant to a sighted user. Likewise,
 > a
 > > > blind
 > > > >  > user should know about the presence of other visual elements, and a
 > > > deaf
 > > > >  > user should know about sound elements. I don't want to seem like a
 > > fool
 > > > to
 > > > >  > my sighted colleagues.
 > > > > John, they also can be a little more approciative and know that some
 > > > things
 > > > > on a site are not visible for you (or audiable for a deaf person).
 > > > > Why do we always want to know exactly what sighted people know and
 > make
 > > > our
 > > > > lifes that more dificult at the same time.
 > > > >
 > > > >  > John
 > > > >  >
 > > > >  > Computers to Help People, Inc.
 > > > >  > http://www.chpi.org
 > > > >  > 825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703
 > > > >  >
 > > > >  >
 > > > >  > ----- Original Message -----
 > > > >  > From: "Ray Saldana III" <raysaldana@theriver.com>
 > > > >  > To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
 > > > >  > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 15:03
 > > > >  > Subject: Re: Static IPs
 > > > >  >
 > > > >  >
 > > > >  > > Carl, one other question, will you share your address with me? I
 > > just
 > > > want
 > > > >  > > to check it out for curiosity.
 > > > >  > >     Another question for everyone, I don't use alt tags in my web
 > > > pages. I
 > > > >  > > lay the graphics in so if you are using a screen reader you never
 > > > know
 > > > >  > they
 > > > >  > > are there. Do you feel this is a mistake? I myself am always
 > after
 > > > the
 > > > >  > text,
 > > > >  > > and since I am unable to see the pictures, just prefer they lay
 > in
 > > > and I
 > > > >  > am
 > > > >  > > unaware of them. This was my reasoning as I can use the text that
 > > is
 > > > what
 > > > >  > I
 > > > >  > > am after, and so prefer the pictures to be left to the sighted
 > > > community.
 > > > >  > I
 > > > >  > > would appreciate others feelings on this.
 > > > >  > >     I also use Java-applets, but lay them in so a non sighted
 > > person
 > > > never
 > > > >  > > knows they are there. In other words no interferences with the
 > > > sharing of
 > > > >  > > information. Do you guys feel this is a mistake?
 > > > >  > >     Animations I use and again lay them in the coding so they
 > don't
 > > > >  > > interfere, sometimes this is not an easy task, but can be
 > > > accomplished
 > > > >  > with
 > > > >  > > some effort. Thanks again!
 > > > >  > > 73 RR
 > > > >  > > AB7JM
 > > > >  > > http://personal.riverusers.com/~ab7jm_gila
 > > > >  > > ----- Original Message -----
 > > > >  > > From: "Andor Demarteau" <ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl>
 > > > >  > > To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
 > > > >  > > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 10:49 AM
 > > > >  > > Subject: Re: Static IPs
 > > > >  > >
 > > > >  > >
 > > > >  > > > On Fri, 7 Sep 2001, Karl Dahlke wrote:
 > > > >  > > >
 > > > >  > > >  > Someone described a pseudo-always-on dsl connection from
 > > > Ameritech,
 > > > >  > > >  > wherein the company drops you if you're not busy,
 > > > >  > > >  > and you wake up with a new ip address.
 > > > >  > > >  > What a frightening thought.
 > > > >  > > > have a look at http://www.dhs.org
 > > > >  > > > great and quick service to get a dynamic-ip with a
 > > fixed-hostname.
 > > > >  > > > Works fine.
 > > > >  > > >
 > > > >  > > >
 > > > >  > > >  > I've just started hosting my own web site, on my own
 > machine,
 > > > >  > > >  > and I don't know why I didn't take the plunge long ago.
 > > > >  > > >  > It's easy, and it's fun.
 > > > >  > > >  > There are numerous advantages, and a couple disadvantages.
 > > > >  > > >  > Well anyways, it would be unthinkable if I had such a
 > terrible
 > > > isp.
 > > > >  > > >  > I certainly can't reprogram all the name servers on the
 > > internet
 > > > >  > > >  > every time they decide to give me a new ip address.
 > > > >  > > >  > The cable at-home service doesn't work like that,
 > > > >  > > >  > and I have nothing but good things to say about them.
 > > > >  > > >  > They even tried to help me set up,
 > > > >  > > >  > knowing that I was on Linux.
 > > > >  > > >  > That's pretty rare.
 > > > >  > > >  >
 > > > >  > > >  > Getting back to the IPs;
 > > > >  > > >  > one day we lost the bill, or it got lost in the mail, or
 > > > whatever,
 > > > >  > > >  > and I was behind, so they turned off the service.
 > > > >  > > >  > I called with my credit card to turn it back on and asked,
 > > > >  > > >  > please please please,
 > > > >  > > >  > can I have my old ip back again.
 > > > >  > > >  > "Sure, we've been saving it for you."
 > > > >  > > >  > Now that's class,
 > > > >  > > >  > and its certainly important to those of us who are hosting
 > our
 > > > own
 > > > >  > > sites.
 > > > >  > > >  >
 > > > >  > > >  > Karl Dahlke
 > > > >  > > >  >
 > > > >  > > >  >
 > > > >  > > >  >
 > > > >  > > >  > _______________________________________________
 > > > >  > > >  > Blinux-list mailing list
 > > > >  > > >  > Blinux-list@redhat.com
 > > > >  > > >  > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
 > > > >  > > >  >
 > > > >  > > >
 > > > >  > > > slainte mhaith (good health), slainte (cheers)
 > > > >  > > > Uisce Beatha (water of live/health)
 > > > >  > > > -----------
 > > > >  > > > Andor Demarteau                 E-mail:
 > > ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl
 > > > >  > > > student computer science        www:
 > > > >  > > http://www.students.cs.uu.nl/~ademarte/
 > > > >  > > > Utrecht University              irc: see webpage for details
 > > > >  > > > -----------
 > > > >  > > > Believe in yourself, know what you want, and make it happen!
 > > > >  > > >
 > > > >  > > >
 > > > >  > > >
 > > > >  > > > _______________________________________________
 > > > >  > > > Blinux-list mailing list
 > > > >  > > > Blinux-list@redhat.com
 > > > >  > > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
 > > > >  > > >
 > > > >  > >
 > > > >  > >
 > > > >  > >
 > > > >  > > _______________________________________________
 > > > >  > > Blinux-list mailing list
 > > > >  > > Blinux-list@redhat.com
 > > > >  > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
 > > > >  > >
 > > > >  >
 > > > >  >
 > > > >  >
 > > > >  >
 > > > >  > _______________________________________________
 > > > >  > Blinux-list mailing list
 > > > >  > Blinux-list@redhat.com
 > > > >  > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
 > > > >  >
 > > > >
 > > > > slainte mhaith (good health), slainte (cheers)
 > > > > Uisce Beatha (water of live/health)
 > > > > -----------
 > > > > Andor Demarteau                 E-mail: ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl
 > > > > student computer science        www:
 > > > http://www.students.cs.uu.nl/~ademarte/
 > > > > Utrecht University              irc: see webpage for details
 > > > > -----------
 > > > > Believe in yourself, know what you want, and make it happen!
 > > > >
 > > > >
 > > > >
 > > > > _______________________________________________
 > > > > Blinux-list mailing list
 > > > > Blinux-list@redhat.com
 > > > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
 > > > >
 > > >
 > > >
 > > >
 > > > _______________________________________________
 > > > Blinux-list mailing list
 > > > Blinux-list@redhat.com
 > > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
 > > >
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > > _______________________________________________
 > > Blinux-list mailing list
 > > Blinux-list@redhat.com
 > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
 > >
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > _______________________________________________
 > Blinux-list mailing list
 > Blinux-list@redhat.com
 > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
 > 

slainte mhaith (good health), slainte (cheers)
Uisce Beatha (water of live/health)
-----------
Andor Demarteau                 E-mail: ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl
student computer science        www: http://www.students.cs.uu.nl/~ademarte/
Utrecht University              irc: see webpage for details
-----------
Believe in yourself, know what you want, and make it happen!

Re: Static IPs

[Andor Demarteau]

On Sat, 8 Sep 2001, Ray Saldana III wrote:
 >     Another question for everyone, I don't use alt tags in my web pages. I
 > lay the graphics in so if you are using a screen reader you never know they
 > are there. Do you feel this is a mistake? I myself am always after the text,
 > and since I am unable to see the pictures, just prefer they lay in and I am
 > unaware of them. This was my reasoning as I can use the text that is what I
 > am after, and so prefer the pictures to be left to the sighted community. I
 > would appreciate others feelings on this.
If you don't use them in combination with links (clickable images and the
kind as standalone or in imagemaps/usemaps) then I think it's not necessary
to use alt="" tags.


 >     I also use Java-applets, but lay them in so a non sighted person never
 > knows they are there. In other words no interferences with the sharing of
 > information. Do you guys feel this is a mistake?
Depends on what those applets do. If you don't need them to get all info
rom your site then I think this indeed is the better way.

 >     Animations I use and again lay them in the coding so they don't
 > interfere, sometimes this is not an easy task, but can be accomplished with
 > some effort. Thanks again!
Again, depending on the situation and if they supply additional info.


 > 73 RR
 > AB7JM
 > http://personal.riverusers.com/~ab7jm_gila
 > ----- Original Message -----
 > From: "Andor Demarteau" <ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl>
 > To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
 > Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 10:49 AM
 > Subject: Re: Static IPs
 > 
 > 
 > > On Fri, 7 Sep 2001, Karl Dahlke wrote:
 > >
 > >  > Someone described a pseudo-always-on dsl connection from Ameritech,
 > >  > wherein the company drops you if you're not busy,
 > >  > and you wake up with a new ip address.
 > >  > What a frightening thought.
 > > have a look at http://www.dhs.org
 > > great and quick service to get a dynamic-ip with a fixed-hostname.
 > > Works fine.
 > >
 > >
 > >  > I've just started hosting my own web site, on my own machine,
 > >  > and I don't know why I didn't take the plunge long ago.
 > >  > It's easy, and it's fun.
 > >  > There are numerous advantages, and a couple disadvantages.
 > >  > Well anyways, it would be unthinkable if I had such a terrible isp.
 > >  > I certainly can't reprogram all the name servers on the internet
 > >  > every time they decide to give me a new ip address.
 > >  > The cable at-home service doesn't work like that,
 > >  > and I have nothing but good things to say about them.
 > >  > They even tried to help me set up,
 > >  > knowing that I was on Linux.
 > >  > That's pretty rare.
 > >  >
 > >  > Getting back to the IPs;
 > >  > one day we lost the bill, or it got lost in the mail, or whatever,
 > >  > and I was behind, so they turned off the service.
 > >  > I called with my credit card to turn it back on and asked,
 > >  > please please please,
 > >  > can I have my old ip back again.
 > >  > "Sure, we've been saving it for you."
 > >  > Now that's class,
 > >  > and its certainly important to those of us who are hosting our own
 > sites.
 > >  >
 > >  > Karl Dahlke
 > >  >
 > >  >
 > >  >
 > >  > _______________________________________________
 > >  > Blinux-list mailing list
 > >  > Blinux-list@redhat.com
 > >  > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
 > >  >
 > >
 > > slainte mhaith (good health), slainte (cheers)
 > > Uisce Beatha (water of live/health)
 > > -----------
 > > Andor Demarteau                 E-mail: ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl
 > > student computer science        www:
 > http://www.students.cs.uu.nl/~ademarte/
 > > Utrecht University              irc: see webpage for details
 > > -----------
 > > Believe in yourself, know what you want, and make it happen!
 > >
 > >
 > >
 > > _______________________________________________
 > > Blinux-list mailing list
 > > Blinux-list@redhat.com
 > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
 > >
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > _______________________________________________
 > Blinux-list mailing list
 > Blinux-list@redhat.com
 > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
 > 

slainte mhaith (good health), slainte (cheers)
Uisce Beatha (water of live/health)
-----------
Andor Demarteau                 E-mail: ademarte@students.cs.uu.nl
student computer science        www: http://www.students.cs.uu.nl/~ademarte/
Utrecht University              irc: see webpage for details
-----------
Believe in yourself, know what you want, and make it happen!