Changing from Redhat to Debian

Changing from Redhat to Debian

[John J. Boyer]

Rafael,
You seem to be the answer guy today. In your reply to my questions about 
changing to ext3 you said that Debian had much better packaging than 
Redhat. I have Redhat 7.1, with a bit of 7.2. How would I change to Debian 
with a minimum of pain?
Thanks.
John


-- 
Computers to Help People, Inc.
http://www.chpi.org
825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703

Re: Changing from Redhat to Debian

[Barbara J Wagreich]

Hi All:

I am new to linux and am getting ready to have Red Hat linux 7.2
installed.

this message raises a big question now.  should I be installing debian
Linux and not red Hat Linux 7.2?  I use a braille display and would be
using brltty to access linux.

My concern is whether Red Hat Linux is the better of the two choices from
the accessibility point of view.  I'd appreciate feedback on this issue.

thanks,
Barb


On Sun, 11 Aug 2002, John J. Boyer wrote:

> Rafael,
> You seem to be the answer guy today. In your reply to my questions about
> changing to ext3 you said that Debian had much better packaging than
> Redhat. I have Redhat 7.1, with a bit of 7.2. How would I change to Debian
> with a minimum of pain?
> Thanks.
> John
>
>
> --
> Computers to Help People, Inc.
> http://www.chpi.org
> 825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>

Re: Changing from Redhat to Debian

[John J. Boyer]

Barb,
Our proofreader is blind and uses Debian with brltty and a Braille Lite 
40. I would guess that Debian and Redhat are about the same in 
accessibility.
John
On Sun, 11 Aug 2002, Barbara J Wagreich wrote:

> Hi All:
> 
> I am new to linux and am getting ready to have Red Hat linux 7.2
> installed.
> 
> this message raises a big question now.  should I be installing debian
> Linux and not red Hat Linux 7.2?  I use a braille display and would be
> using brltty to access linux.
> 
> My concern is whether Red Hat Linux is the better of the two choices from
> the accessibility point of view.  I'd appreciate feedback on this issue.
> 
> thanks,
> Barb
> 
> 
> On Sun, 11 Aug 2002, John J. Boyer wrote:
> 
> > Rafael,
> > You seem to be the answer guy today. In your reply to my questions about
> > changing to ext3 you said that Debian had much better packaging than
> > Redhat. I have Redhat 7.1, with a bit of 7.2. How would I change to Debian
> > with a minimum of pain?
> > Thanks.
> > John
> >
> >
> > --
> > Computers to Help People, Inc.
> > http://www.chpi.org
> > 825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blinux-list mailing list
> > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> >
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> 

-- 
Computers to Help People, Inc.
http://www.chpi.org
825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703

Re: Changing from Redhat to Debian

[Rafael Skodlar,,,]

I guess I have more times than others to answer some questions today.
It's all between office, home, and visitng my friends.

There is no way to change to debian without major problems IMO besides
reinstalling the OS. I do not want to make you change your mind about
the distribution you use. The reason I mentioned it is my recent
experience with both, Redhat and Debian where the second one turned out
to be easier to maintain and install on different systems I manage.
The way I upgrade the systems is using a second disk drive where I
backup critical files first, then reinstall everything in OS section.
Since my home is always on a separate partition it's not hard to
completely replace the OS and preserve important files. Second drive is
only as precautionary measure which so far was never needed for recovery
but you never know.

Redhat made a big mistake with major differences between 7.0 and 7.1
where the upgrade was impossible. Another reason is that in order to
quickly download necessary security updates, Redhat charges $60 per
system per year which is too much IMO when the alternative is free. I do
not mind paying something for the software but there are limits.

Debian has it's own funny ways of doing things and until you learn about
it, you might have problems and frustrations. Some hardware is hard to
get supported sometimes. That's one of the reasons I paid little
attention to it until recent new release 3.0 aka woody.

I don't want to start another distribution war, it's just my opinions
since you asked.

On Sun, Aug 11, 2002 at 06:44:28PM -0500, John J. Boyer wrote:
> Rafael,
> You seem to be the answer guy today. In your reply to my questions about 
> changing to ext3 you said that Debian had much better packaging than 
> Redhat. I have Redhat 7.1, with a bit of 7.2. How would I change to Debian 
> with a minimum of pain?
> Thanks.
> John
> 
> 
> -- 
> Computers to Help People, Inc.
> http://www.chpi.org
> 825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703
> 

-- 
Rafael

Re: Changing from Redhat to Debian

[Matt]

Debian is very easy to upgrade and also makes package management very 
simple. I would assume however that Redhat is just as accessible although 
I've only used Debian and Slackware a long time ago.

You can upgrade from one version of Debian to another without even 
rebooting; this is very nice!

Matt



At 08:33 PM 8/11/2002, Rafael Skodlar,,, wrote:
>I guess I have more times than others to answer some questions today.
>It's all between office, home, and visitng my friends.
>
>There is no way to change to debian without major problems IMO besides
>reinstalling the OS. I do not want to make you change your mind about
>the distribution you use. The reason I mentioned it is my recent
>experience with both, Redhat and Debian where the second one turned out
>to be easier to maintain and install on different systems I manage.
>The way I upgrade the systems is using a second disk drive where I
>backup critical files first, then reinstall everything in OS section.
>Since my home is always on a separate partition it's not hard to
>completely replace the OS and preserve important files. Second drive is
>only as precautionary measure which so far was never needed for recovery
>but you never know.
>
>Redhat made a big mistake with major differences between 7.0 and 7.1
>where the upgrade was impossible. Another reason is that in order to
>quickly download necessary security updates, Redhat charges $60 per
>system per year which is too much IMO when the alternative is free. I do
>not mind paying something for the software but there are limits.
>
>Debian has it's own funny ways of doing things and until you learn about
>it, you might have problems and frustrations. Some hardware is hard to
>get supported sometimes. That's one of the reasons I paid little
>attention to it until recent new release 3.0 aka woody.
>
>I don't want to start another distribution war, it's just my opinions
>since you asked.
>
>On Sun, Aug 11, 2002 at 06:44:28PM -0500, John J. Boyer wrote:
> > Rafael,
> > You seem to be the answer guy today. In your reply to my questions about
> > changing to ext3 you said that Debian had much better packaging than
> > Redhat. I have Redhat 7.1, with a bit of 7.2. How would I change to Debian
> > with a minimum of pain?
> > Thanks.
> > John
> >
> >
> > --
> > Computers to Help People, Inc.
> > http://www.chpi.org
> > 825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703
> >
>
>--
>Rafael
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Blinux-list mailing list
>Blinux-list@redhat.com
>https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list

Re: Changing from Redhat to Debian

[John]

On Monday 12 August 2002 08:02, Barbara J Wagreich wrote:
> I am new to linux and am getting ready to have Red Hat linux 7.2
> installed.

I installed Debian a couple of months ago. It was not a task for a beginner.

It's true that Debian 3 has been released since then and it may be altogether 
easier than it was.


-- 


Cheers
John.

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Re: Changing from Redhat to Debian

[John]

On Monday 12 August 2002 08:33, Rafael Skodlar,,, wrote:
> Redhat made a big mistake with major differences between 7.0 and 7.1
> where the upgrade was impossible. 

I've never heard that before. I avoided 7.0, but I did upgrade 6.2 to 7.1 and 
if that's possible, I don't see why 7.0 to 7.1 would have presented any 
difficulty.

> Another reason is that in order to
> quickly download necessary security updates, Redhat charges $60 per
> system per year which is too much IMO when the alternative is free. I do
> not mind paying something for the software but there are limits.

I've not found a reason to pay for such a service. The updates are freely 
available for all. I don't get priority access, but I doubt that's very 
important to small users. Even if I did value it, $60 (even $US60) doesn't 
seem a lot to pay to get priority access for maintenance for something you 
can get for no charge.

Besides that, membership of RHN is free for your first machine.
 

-- 


Cheers
John.

Please, no off-list mail. You will fall foul of my spam treatment.
Join the "Linux Support by Small Businesses" list at 
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Re: Changing from Redhat to Debian

[Jude DaShiell]

Well, the redhat distro likes to run its update program in graphics mode
unless told otherwise.  It's the -nox switch that has to be used to
prevent that bit of misbehavior.  I'll not pass on debian never having run
it right now I'm not qualified.  Another distribution but only for the
adventurous is at http://www.crux.nu and is called crux linux.  That
version of linux has no graphics to fight with.

On Sun, 11 Aug 2002, Matt wrote:

> Debian is very easy to upgrade and also makes package management very
> simple. I would assume however that Redhat is just as accessible although
> I've only used Debian and Slackware a long time ago.
>
> You can upgrade from one version of Debian to another without even
> rebooting; this is very nice!
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> At 08:33 PM 8/11/2002, Rafael Skodlar,,, wrote:
> >I guess I have more times than others to answer some questions today.
> >It's all between office, home, and visitng my friends.
> >
> >There is no way to change to debian without major problems IMO besides
> >reinstalling the OS. I do not want to make you change your mind about
> >the distribution you use. The reason I mentioned it is my recent
> >experience with both, Redhat and Debian where the second one turned out
> >to be easier to maintain and install on different systems I manage.
> >The way I upgrade the systems is using a second disk drive where I
> >backup critical files first, then reinstall everything in OS section.
> >Since my home is always on a separate partition it's not hard to
> >completely replace the OS and preserve important files. Second drive is
> >only as precautionary measure which so far was never needed for recovery
> >but you never know.
> >
> >Redhat made a big mistake with major differences between 7.0 and 7.1
> >where the upgrade was impossible. Another reason is that in order to
> >quickly download necessary security updates, Redhat charges $60 per
> >system per year which is too much IMO when the alternative is free. I do
> >not mind paying something for the software but there are limits.
> >
> >Debian has it's own funny ways of doing things and until you learn about
> >it, you might have problems and frustrations. Some hardware is hard to
> >get supported sometimes. That's one of the reasons I paid little
> >attention to it until recent new release 3.0 aka woody.
> >
> >I don't want to start another distribution war, it's just my opinions
> >since you asked.
> >
> >On Sun, Aug 11, 2002 at 06:44:28PM -0500, John J. Boyer wrote:
> > > Rafael,
> > > You seem to be the answer guy today. In your reply to my questions about
> > > changing to ext3 you said that Debian had much better packaging than
> > > Redhat. I have Redhat 7.1, with a bit of 7.2. How would I change to Debian
> > > with a minimum of pain?
> > > Thanks.
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Computers to Help People, Inc.
> > > http://www.chpi.org
> > > 825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703
> > >
> >
> >--
> >Rafael
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Blinux-list mailing list
> >Blinux-list@redhat.com
> >https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>

Re: Changing from Redhat to Debian

[Rafael Skodlar,,,]

I'm sorry if I confused you about which distribution to use. The way I
see it is use the best tool available at the moment and stick with it
for a while. Redhat was my main environment for years since their
release 4.0 I believe. Redhat was a great improvement from Slackware
used for my first Linux install in 1994.

I was hoping that Redhat will improve the rpm process but they never
made it beyound minor changes. There was talk going around about the
merger between Debian and Redhat packaging systems but that never
happened. As I mentioned earlier I found Debian much easier to install
recently and decided to use it more often than before. One of the
reasons I tried Debian again was bad experience with Redhat 7.0 and 7.1.
In order to get critical things working I ended up with installing too
many things when using Redhat while debian was much leaner.

I don't want to go on record to say one distribution is better than the
other. It's not hard to find problems with all of them. I described my
experience and reasons I chose one over the other. The best thing to do
is to install different distributions and try them out for a while then
decide which one to adopt. That's how we use different products, we like
different things.

Good luck,

Rafael

On Sun, Aug 11, 2002 at 08:02:25PM -0400, Barbara J Wagreich wrote:
> Hi All:
> 
> I am new to linux and am getting ready to have Red Hat linux 7.2
> installed.
> 
> this message raises a big question now.  should I be installing debian
> Linux and not red Hat Linux 7.2?  I use a braille display and would be
> using brltty to access linux.
> 
> My concern is whether Red Hat Linux is the better of the two choices from
> the accessibility point of view.  I'd appreciate feedback on this issue.
> 
> thanks,
> Barb
> 
> 
> On Sun, 11 Aug 2002, John J. Boyer wrote:
> 
> > Rafael,
> > You seem to be the answer guy today. In your reply to my questions about
> > changing to ext3 you said that Debian had much better packaging than
> > Redhat. I have Redhat 7.1, with a bit of 7.2. How would I change to Debian
> > with a minimum of pain?
> > Thanks.
> > John
> >
> >
> > --
> > Computers to Help People, Inc.
> > http://www.chpi.org
> > 825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703

Re: Changing from Redhat to Debian

[John]

On Monday 12 August 2002 14:27, Rafael Skodlar,,, wrote:
> I was hoping that Redhat will improve the rpm process but they never
> made it beyound minor changes. There was talk going around about the

I've not yet had the chance to try it, but I've seen some comments to the 
effect that there is a new version of rpm in Limbo (beta of RHL 8.0) with 
significant improvements.

> merger between Debian and Redhat packaging systems but that never
> happened. 
Apt? Connectica (Brazil) did it, it's available for RHL from freshrpms.net.
RH doesn't use it though.

However, there is up2date which does much the same thing.

> As I mentioned earlier I found Debian much easier to install
> recently and decided to use it more often than before. One of the
> reasons I tried Debian again was bad experience with Redhat 7.0 and 7.1.
> In order to get critical things working I ended up with installing too
> many things when using Redhat while debian was much leaner.
> 
> 

-- 


Cheers
John.

Please, no off-list mail. You will fall foul of my spam treatment.
Join the "Linux Support by Small Businesses" list at 
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Re: Changing from Redhat to Debian

[Rafael Skodlar,,,]

On Mon, Aug 12, 2002 at 10:28:29AM +0800, John wrote:
> On Monday 12 August 2002 08:33, Rafael Skodlar,,, wrote:
> > Redhat made a big mistake with major differences between 7.0 and 7.1
> > where the upgrade was impossible. 
> 
> I've never heard that before. I avoided 7.0, but I did upgrade 6.2 to 7.1 and 
> if that's possible, I don't see why 7.0 to 7.1 would have presented any 
> difficulty.

Libraries and compiler were messed up badly and that caused all kinds of
problems at work. When you need to support many systems Redhat doesn't
seem to be the easiest. While personaly avoiding 7.0 I had to use it at
work and believe me it was not easy.

> 
> > Another reason is that in order to
> > quickly download necessary security updates, Redhat charges $60 per
> > system per year which is too much IMO when the alternative is free. I do
> > not mind paying something for the software but there are limits.
> 
> I've not found a reason to pay for such a service. The updates are freely 
> available for all. I don't get priority access, but I doubt that's very 
> important to small users. Even if I did value it, $60 (even $US60) doesn't 
> seem a lot to pay to get priority access for maintenance for something you 
> can get for no charge.

I don't mind paying for some services but they need to be reasonable.
$60 per system is not reasonable when the new box costs $80 or so.
Redhat seem to release some of their stuff half baked to generate
support calls. While making money from helping people is not a crime,
they don't make it easy for anybody. People complain about Microsoft
charging for updates etc. but I don't see that any different from
Redhat. I have friends who's business depends on Linux to large degree
and they too believe that Redhat is releasing poorly tested versions in
order to generate income from support calls.

Use whatever feels good for you. It's not my intension to turn anybody
away from what makes you happy. 

> 
> Besides that, membership of RHN is free for your first machine.
>  
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> Cheers
> John.

Linux trade show in San Francisco is just two days away. We'll see
what's left from the economic downturn which greatly affected open
source dependant companies.


-- 
Rafael

Re: Changing from Redhat to Debian

[John]

On Monday 12 August 2002 15:11, Rafael Skodlar,,, wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 12, 2002 at 10:28:29AM +0800, John wrote:
> > On Monday 12 August 2002 08:33, Rafael Skodlar,,, wrote:
> > > Redhat made a big mistake with major differences between 7.0 and 7.1
> > > where the upgrade was impossible. 
> > 
> > I've never heard that before. I avoided 7.0, but I did upgrade 6.2 to 7.1 
and 
> > if that's possible, I don't see why 7.0 to 7.1 would have presented any 
> > difficulty.
> 
> Libraries and compiler were messed up badly and that caused all kinds of
> problems at work. When you need to support many systems Redhat doesn't
> seem to be the easiest. While personaly avoiding 7.0 I had to use it at
> work and believe me it was not easy.


Certainly there would have been difficulties transferring C++ binaries between 
RHL 7.x and (most) other systems because the GCC snapshot RH cleaned up and 
published as gcc 2.96 used a different name-mangling approach.

I've been on most of the release RHL lists since Hurricane (5.0), maybe 
before.


> > 
> > > Another reason is that in order to
> > > quickly download necessary security updates, Redhat charges $60 per
> > > system per year which is too much IMO when the alternative is free. I do
> > > not mind paying something for the software but there are limits.
> > 
> > I've not found a reason to pay for such a service. The updates are freely 
> > available for all. I don't get priority access, but I doubt that's very 
> > important to small users. Even if I did value it, $60 (even $US60) doesn't 
> > seem a lot to pay to get priority access for maintenance for something you 
> > can get for no charge.
> 
> I don't mind paying for some services but they need to be reasonable.
> $60 per system is not reasonable when the new box costs $80 or so.
> Redhat seem to release some of their stuff half baked to generate
> support calls.

I don't believe that is true. RH would want fewer support calls, not more, 
from those on fixed-price contracts such as you mention.

As Michael Malone (a local ISP) once said, "The ideal customer is one who pays 
their money and doesn't use our service."

Nobody forces you to pay RH for service. Your first computer on the Red Hat 
Network (support scheme) is free even to cheapskates like me who downloaded 
it off the Internet.

I've used most Red Hat Linux releases since 3.0.3, and paid nothing for any of 
them since 5.1.

I still get security warnings for nothing more than the effort of subscribing 
to the list. I get all the updates I've ever heard of them, perhaps not so 
quickly as people with paid-up contracts though I've never heard they get 
them more quickly.

I have 511Mbytes of updates to RHL 7.3 (including source) here right now, 37 
(source) packages in all.



-- 


Cheers
John.

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Re: Changing from Redhat to Debian

[David Csercsics]

Linux in general is about the same in accessibility Which distribution you
use has nothing to do with accessibility but rather it's just whatever your
preference is.

----- Original Message -----
From: "John J. Boyer" <director@chpi.org>
To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
Cc: "Barbara J Wagreich" <bjw@world.std.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: Changing from Redhat to Debian


> Barb,
> Our proofreader is blind and uses Debian with brltty and a Braille Lite
> 40. I would guess that Debian and Redhat are about the same in
> accessibility.
> John
> On Sun, 11 Aug 2002, Barbara J Wagreich wrote:
>
> > Hi All:
> >
> > I am new to linux and am getting ready to have Red Hat linux 7.2
> > installed.
> >
> > this message raises a big question now.  should I be installing debian
> > Linux and not red Hat Linux 7.2?  I use a braille display and would be
> > using brltty to access linux.
> >
> > My concern is whether Red Hat Linux is the better of the two choices
from
> > the accessibility point of view.  I'd appreciate feedback on this issue.
> >
> > thanks,
> > Barb
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 11 Aug 2002, John J. Boyer wrote:
> >
> > > Rafael,
> > > You seem to be the answer guy today. In your reply to my questions
about
> > > changing to ext3 you said that Debian had much better packaging than
> > > Redhat. I have Redhat 7.1, with a bit of 7.2. How would I change to
Debian
> > > with a minimum of pain?
> > > Thanks.
> > > John
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Computers to Help People, Inc.
> > > http://www.chpi.org
> > > 825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Blinux-list mailing list
> > > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blinux-list mailing list
> > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> >
>
> --
> Computers to Help People, Inc.
> http://www.chpi.org
> 825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list

Re: Changing from Redhat to Debian

[Luke Davis]

What can you say about that one?  I do not know it, and would like to hear
opinions of anyne.

Luke

On Sun, 11 Aug 2002, Jude DaShiell wrote:

> Well, the redhat distro likes to run its update program in graphics mode
> unless told otherwise.  It's the -nox switch that has to be used to
> prevent that bit of misbehavior.  I'll not pass on debian never having run
> it right now I'm not qualified.  Another distribution but only for the
> adventurous is at http://www.crux.nu and is called crux linux.  That
> version of linux has no graphics to fight with.
>
> On Sun, 11 Aug 2002, Matt wrote:
>
> > Debian is very easy to upgrade and also makes package management very
> > simple. I would assume however that Redhat is just as accessible although
> > I've only used Debian and Slackware a long time ago.
> >
> > You can upgrade from one version of Debian to another without even
> > rebooting; this is very nice!
> >
> > Matt
> >
> >
> >
> > At 08:33 PM 8/11/2002, Rafael Skodlar,,, wrote:
> > >I guess I have more times than others to answer some questions today.
> > >It's all between office, home, and visitng my friends.
> > >
> > >There is no way to change to debian without major problems IMO besides
> > >reinstalling the OS. I do not want to make you change your mind about
> > >the distribution you use. The reason I mentioned it is my recent
> > >experience with both, Redhat and Debian where the second one turned out
> > >to be easier to maintain and install on different systems I manage.
> > >The way I upgrade the systems is using a second disk drive where I
> > >backup critical files first, then reinstall everything in OS section.
> > >Since my home is always on a separate partition it's not hard to
> > >completely replace the OS and preserve important files. Second drive is
> > >only as precautionary measure which so far was never needed for recovery
> > >but you never know.
> > >
> > >Redhat made a big mistake with major differences between 7.0 and 7.1
> > >where the upgrade was impossible. Another reason is that in order to
> > >quickly download necessary security updates, Redhat charges $60 per
> > >system per year which is too much IMO when the alternative is free. I do
> > >not mind paying something for the software but there are limits.
> > >
> > >Debian has it's own funny ways of doing things and until you learn about
> > >it, you might have problems and frustrations. Some hardware is hard to
> > >get supported sometimes. That's one of the reasons I paid little
> > >attention to it until recent new release 3.0 aka woody.
> > >
> > >I don't want to start another distribution war, it's just my opinions
> > >since you asked.
> > >
> > >On Sun, Aug 11, 2002 at 06:44:28PM -0500, John J. Boyer wrote:
> > > > Rafael,
> > > > You seem to be the answer guy today. In your reply to my questions about
> > > > changing to ext3 you said that Debian had much better packaging than
> > > > Redhat. I have Redhat 7.1, with a bit of 7.2. How would I change to Debian
> > > > with a minimum of pain?
> > > > Thanks.
> > > > John
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Computers to Help People, Inc.
> > > > http://www.chpi.org
> > > > 825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703
> > > >
> > >
> > >--
> > >Rafael
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >Blinux-list mailing list
> > >Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > >https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blinux-list mailing list
> > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>

Re: Changing from Redhat to Debian

[Jude DaShiell]

Patience please!  I have yet to download that crux distro but once I have
and have had a chance to check it out I'll let you all know.  These days
are unusual since I have a project at work which is taking up my time but
those usually come to an end shortly and once that has happened I'll
likely check it out and try at least installing emacspeak on it.  If I
ever learn how to do a speakup install from the sources, that would be a
possibility too.

Re: Changing from Redhat to Debian

[Jack Heim]

About 6 months ago I studied the distribution wars on Usenet and then 
orderd 3 distros from one of the cheap CD companies in this list's FAQ. I 
ordered SUSE, Redhat, and Slackware and installed each one in turn. And I'm 
no closer to figuring out which is the "best" distro than I was before all 
that work.

The never ending argument over the best distro on Usenet usually amounts to 
a series of claims by one group that the other distro doesn't do something 
and then proponents of the other distro saying that it does indeed do that. 
On and on like that.

And I didn't get any impression that any of the 3 distros I tried was much 
easier to install than another. In fact, if one is easier than another, 
it's only because it takes some of the control away from you which may or 
may not be a good thing.

There may be an answer to the question of which one is best for blind users 
but I don't anyone can say which one is the best over all.

Re: Changing from Redhat to Debian

[Shaun Oliver]

*SNIP*
There may be an answer to the question of which one is best for blind
users
but I don't anyone can say which one is the best over all.

You're always going to have distro wars just like you're alsays going to
have linux vs. windows wars but imho if you're on the side of windows,
you're behind the 8ball to start with.
However, having said that, out of the 3 distros I've tryed, namely red hat
debian and slackware,,,, no make that 4 with some fiddling with mandrake,
I can't say that no one distro is any better for blind people than the
other.
I can say however from personal experience, that I'd prefer debian because
of it's package handling utilities and the way it fetches the required
dependencies as you fetch a package.
it's entirely up to you as to what distro you choose to use in the long
run.
Just take into acount how much you want things automated or not as the
case may be and work from there.
hth


-- 
Shaun Oliver


In a world without fences
          and walls who needs Windows and Gates?

EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
ICQ: 76958435

Re: Changing from Redhat to Debian

[Boris Daix]

I know a good place to get info on Debian, but don't repeat it as it's
really secret : www.debian.org. And if you have other really general
questions about it, there are a high stack of mailing-lists and
newsgroups related. There are many many faqs too - I'm sure you'll find.

"John J. Boyer" <director@chpi.org> writes:

> Rafael,
> You seem to be the answer guy today. In your reply to my questions about 
> changing to ext3 you said that Debian had much better packaging than 
> Redhat. I have Redhat 7.1, with a bit of 7.2. How would I change to Debian 
> with a minimum of pain?
> Thanks.
> John
>
>
> -- 
> Computers to Help People, Inc.
> http://www.chpi.org
> 825 East Johnson; Madison, WI 53703
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>

-- 
Boris Daix

	"Feel free to be free, or not to be..."

re: Changing from Redhat to Debian

[Weber Walter M]

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Hi All,

   Thanks for the helpful inputs. I guess my choosing of a distro won't be
as easy as I had previously, and naively, thought.

Walt

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RE: Changing from Redhat to Debian

[Luke Davis]

I think you are making the error, of assuming that, because this list runs
on a redhat server, it has any relationship to redhat.  It doesn't.  I
suspect, just from observations, that most here do not run Redhat.

For my part, Rh has proven itself to be less than ideal--I never had a
working redhat system up for any length of time--there were always
install, or other problems, such as instability, bloadedness, and so on,
which I did not have with the others.  I consider it the MicroSofft of
Linux.

Luke
 On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Weber Walter M wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Several months ago, when I first joined this list, I asked the same
> questions and was urged to study Debbie, Slackware, and Redhat.
>
>    I visited each home site and saw so much data there that I decided to put
> off the study until the fall, when my workload lightened.
>
>    However, I have not found any blind user lists other than this and have
> found the support here so cordial, so knowledgeable, and so prompt that it
> seems clear to me that Redhat would probably end up being my choice. So, I'm
> wondering why I should even bother studying the data on the others.
>
>    It seems, furthermore, that whatever shortcomings there may be in Redhat,
> there's a work around.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Walt
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jack Heim [mailto:jheim@facstaff.wisc.edu]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 1:22 PM
> To: blinux-list@redhat.com
> Subject: Re: Changing from Redhat to Debian
>
>
> About 6 months ago I studied the distribution wars on Usenet and then
> orderd 3 distros from one of the cheap CD companies in this list's FAQ. I
> ordered SUSE, Redhat, and Slackware and installed each one in turn. And I'm
> no closer to figuring out which is the "best" distro than I was before all
> that work.
>
> The never ending argument over the best distro on Usenet usually amounts to
> a series of claims by one group that the other distro doesn't do something
> and then proponents of the other distro saying that it does indeed do that.
> On and on like that.
>
> And I didn't get any impression that any of the 3 distros I tried was much
> easier to install than another. In fact, if one is easier than another,
> it's only because it takes some of the control away from you which may or
> may not be a good thing.
>
> There may be an answer to the question of which one is best for blind users
> but I don't anyone can say which one is the best over all.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>

Re: Changing from Redhat to Debian

[Mario Lang]

Weber Walter M <Walter.M.Weber@irs.gov> writes:

> Hi All,
>
> Several months ago, when I first joined this list, I asked the same
> questions and was urged to study Debbie, Slackware, and Redhat.
>
>    I visited each home site and saw so much data there that I decided to put
> off the study until the fall, when my workload lightened.
>
>    However, I have not found any blind user lists other than this and have
> found the support here so cordial, so knowledgeable, and so prompt that it
> seems clear to me that Redhat would probably end up being my choice.

You message seems to indicate that you assume that blinux@redhat.com is
especially affiliated with Redhat Linux blind support.

This is not true.  Redhat is kind enough to host the blinux list, but
blinux is for all Blind linux related stuff, not only for Redhat support.


-- 
CYa,
  Mario

RE: Changing from Redhat to Debian

[Janina Sajka]

Since the distro wars have once again errupted, I feel compelled to quote 
here the advice we give in our Installation HOWTO for the Speakup Modified 
Red Hat Distribution. On the specific question of what distribution a 
blind user should choose, we say:


	"Clearly,  all  users  can  choose  among  several Linux distributions, and we note and applaud the Slackware team for including Speakup in their 
stock distribution  since  version 8.0. Which particular distribution one 
should choose is really a matter of personal choice. Our only advice is that users unfamiliar  with  Linux should choose a distribution for which they can 
most easily get help when they have questions. In other words, it's harder 
for the user of Red Hat to help someone using Debian or Slackware.  This 
is an important point because beginning users will most certainly have 
questions--many questions."

The entire HOWTO is available at:

	http://www.linux-speakup.org/ftp/disks/redhat/HOWTO_INSTALL.html


 On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Weber Walter M 
wrote:

> Hi All,
> 
> Several months ago, when I first joined this list, I asked the same
> questions and was urged to study Debbie, Slackware, and Redhat.
> 
>    I visited each home site and saw so much data there that I decided to put
> off the study until the fall, when my workload lightened.
> 
>    However, I have not found any blind user lists other than this and have
> found the support here so cordial, so knowledgeable, and so prompt that it
> seems clear to me that Redhat would probably end up being my choice. So, I'm
> wondering why I should even bother studying the data on the others.
> 
>    It seems, furthermore, that whatever shortcomings there may be in Redhat,
> there's a work around.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Walt
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jack Heim [mailto:jheim@facstaff.wisc.edu]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 1:22 PM
> To: blinux-list@redhat.com
> Subject: Re: Changing from Redhat to Debian
> 
> 
> About 6 months ago I studied the distribution wars on Usenet and then 
> orderd 3 distros from one of the cheap CD companies in this list's FAQ. I 
> ordered SUSE, Redhat, and Slackware and installed each one in turn. And I'm 
> no closer to figuring out which is the "best" distro than I was before all 
> that work.
> 
> The never ending argument over the best distro on Usenet usually amounts to 
> a series of claims by one group that the other distro doesn't do something 
> and then proponents of the other distro saying that it does indeed do that. 
> On and on like that.
> 
> And I didn't get any impression that any of the 3 distros I tried was much 
> easier to install than another. In fact, if one is easier than another, 
> it's only because it takes some of the control away from you which may or 
> may not be a good thing.
> 
> There may be an answer to the question of which one is best for blind users 
> but I don't anyone can say which one is the best over all.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

RE: Changing from Redhat to Debian

[Weber Walter M]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1985 bytes --]

Hi All,

Several months ago, when I first joined this list, I asked the same
questions and was urged to study Debbie, Slackware, and Redhat.

   I visited each home site and saw so much data there that I decided to put
off the study until the fall, when my workload lightened.

   However, I have not found any blind user lists other than this and have
found the support here so cordial, so knowledgeable, and so prompt that it
seems clear to me that Redhat would probably end up being my choice. So, I'm
wondering why I should even bother studying the data on the others.

   It seems, furthermore, that whatever shortcomings there may be in Redhat,
there's a work around.

Thanks,

Walt


-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Heim [mailto:jheim@facstaff.wisc.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 1:22 PM
To: blinux-list@redhat.com
Subject: Re: Changing from Redhat to Debian


About 6 months ago I studied the distribution wars on Usenet and then 
orderd 3 distros from one of the cheap CD companies in this list's FAQ. I 
ordered SUSE, Redhat, and Slackware and installed each one in turn. And I'm 
no closer to figuring out which is the "best" distro than I was before all 
that work.

The never ending argument over the best distro on Usenet usually amounts to 
a series of claims by one group that the other distro doesn't do something 
and then proponents of the other distro saying that it does indeed do that. 
On and on like that.

And I didn't get any impression that any of the 3 distros I tried was much 
easier to install than another. In fact, if one is easier than another, 
it's only because it takes some of the control away from you which may or 
may not be a good thing.

There may be an answer to the question of which one is best for blind users 
but I don't anyone can say which one is the best over all.



_______________________________________________
Blinux-list mailing list
Blinux-list@redhat.com
https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list

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