From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx03.intmail.prod.int.rdu2.redhat.com [10.11.54.3]) by lists01.pubmisc.prod.ext.phx2.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 01JDb0wL007220 for ; Wed, 19 Feb 2020 08:37:00 -0500 Received: by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) id B029210F1BE1; Wed, 19 Feb 2020 13:37:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mimecast-mx02.redhat.com (mimecast05.extmail.prod.ext.rdu2.redhat.com [10.11.55.21]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AAD611004C6C for ; Wed, 19 Feb 2020 13:36:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: from us-smtp-1.mimecast.com (us-smtp-2.mimecast.com [205.139.110.61]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx02.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 525A6802A56 for ; Wed, 19 Feb 2020 13:36:58 +0000 (UTC) ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dkim.mimecast.com; s=201903; t=1582119418; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:dkim-signature; bh=MZUHWMF6KdsgnI6c37nzx8+yhsawCEbfNSkdB9NjWpI=; b=arTzlFY2RZH12MgY+rEQcv2jUrpBk+uVuuoWofWKyXPPTZBnQEPDo/FLOX0xCa4w/3MU0+ GqVttXxAb5IehYh070fdGZ2xeguX8OU9LK1XbKY3rCQGA57oG4mXC8bohlHFG6/0ffJ9wx AYAQYka4eas3dHLmAV/ea2m3xM0QwvwYpAz7OCSsxGgM0zw8fXZQAjGCOlmMK5VaLax9Ua qUqkcpALTfd1OyjAF+RdE7rSa0+xs6BclZJLElFOVpauGZyMBIANXGQdxBkC9hA9U/AmF6 6ufWiZOSnVPzaOgP3GIlKqLmnxkJUyfwVfo9RqvX7cbfliqRmlIqo+BM+91w1A== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=201903; d=dkim.mimecast.com; t=1582119418; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=CPYY62a1Ra+vYuEXPFUjDA7bHK51NsFTASE/ls51cYQnxb1hZZgSR86I/buNJYxWXCHwOK ZIF/uM3OnCDU7PZc6td0glTbYdxkayk42IqnzROiQy1VV/M93imOaxKzqyH3IGWEE3YxmH frT6RLqh0I23ZQS7s440zAgdNO3Wcus3/OAD2dUZwLWEmegpzMzO8ew09aviNgkEiCZ6qc 0FaDe9Ujp2LliLpnMQwlVohaMUNGN+TPMwqho6ZXUTloJj1KI9n8f3F4Z76eg70w8FFCKJ tDIo3Ajay5OwL57Lbp2rWWCtf+x7bKHArGXoGOLLAFBRqJG4RXRQ9PwknHWnyw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; relay.mimecast.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=LtdkoybT; spf=pass (relay.mimecast.com: domain of mewtamer@gmail.com designates 209.85.167.195 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mewtamer@gmail.com Received: from mail-oi1-f195.google.com (mail-oi1-f195.google.com [209.85.167.195]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-12-vDNRjbRlPAKz-YiorHwasA-1; Wed, 19 Feb 2020 08:36:55 -0500 Received: by mail-oi1-f195.google.com with SMTP id l136so23805319oig.1 for ; Wed, 19 Feb 2020 05:36:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=MZUHWMF6KdsgnI6c37nzx8+yhsawCEbfNSkdB9NjWpI=; b=LtdkoybT6zSEO7nmm91zrXl7gVnD5T7G1nH+ugObzKgORvIH8pTq3HwBgYyiJ7o/UN fGCV7H6jW9QBBWRm1eCRiCNNFCCp5pWZzco0tD3YdCakNn9gXIcCXlp8U13kXx2P6Z1O +3eVAp0PWQcqV5ceYjIoG2B1QoikxMc6k+ww6Ny0pKjXc3G6bjtvlf351mgaIhmI4s0R SK6vJR6OjaqBSOhI/Uf9b6+vduxZk1cHPfVi7P5UHpyJ30ETybOWUqlkfG9Wy6m7Tv7X qgMNR1zOrxEI9XPqcjiowQJlMzGwmCIv4uQZ5eRn1FQaiHZV3tCjky468CDLAqoPHp6R rw9w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=MZUHWMF6KdsgnI6c37nzx8+yhsawCEbfNSkdB9NjWpI=; b=tGxFsjwZJj2pSLS8RjY4P/AgXJcgB56ggp583tRPeuOf/RNV0NeMLi7dW/+MIzyJpB 00GcziXIn8W4JKckTNTt7YVVV0RtJHCgwiYmZCww2H9JEMDRnvgvsDJGvqdzKFrDf1eD KQdFcFE8DC5cJRX5+LBQoHnc28bnt/F68gfOAuDLD6KBTF9gE7c1jWnYJOwE2RwIwEE3 7HEx6+mbZtZjqOse0RX2pQKtIU2a+iFIvTarJOHwLfC7p8Ymga/jWJqnvdRJBLs0k87Y Ql4DkmXo0JPN17RKAfzWRaCMBs/BHchLpPmmpsSbmm2R9oV/jwxPhjAk8X/Q05jqLoXB a9+Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXJiVyD7/IkmpIDbs1sVzjU8ZewCI5/cVPpMwBkpUiLmbAnqzE0 kgl2p36H61Oam7fPY9jU+64LopI9pQLDXLuM8mpvbg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzc06WHE+/mZDISnrmR/OYchYyoLuQgEAa/4YtOVhTaGHurfeYxpoZjWJqLR9G+toThc+k+MqHb2YnviLqItF4= X-Received: by 2002:aca:3805:: with SMTP id f5mr4608169oia.6.1582119414454; Wed, 19 Feb 2020 05:36:54 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a9d:12f0:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Wed, 19 Feb 2020 05:36:53 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 13:36:53 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: early warning I hope To: blinux-list@redhat.com X-MC-Unique: vDNRjbRlPAKz-YiorHwasA-1 Authentication-Results: relay.mimecast.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=LtdkoybT; spf=pass (relay.mimecast.com: domain of mewtamer@gmail.com designates 209.85.167.195 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mewtamer@gmail.com X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.78 on 10.11.54.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by lists01.pubmisc.prod.ext.phx2.redhat.com id 01JDb0wL007220 X-loop: blinux-list@redhat.com From: Linux for blind general discussion X-BeenThere: blinux-list@redhat.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: junk Reply-To: blinux-list@redhat.com List-Id: Linux for blind general discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 13:37:01 -0000 Speaking as the one who first mentioned Knoppix, I thought I did a decent job of admitting it's shortcomings... most of which have little to do with accessibility and everything to do with it being intended as a live-only distro... Though, for what it's worth, it's the only live distro I can remember hearing of that can be booted from DVD and come up talking without any user input(though again, since the CD edition was discontinued, such has required a bit of micro remastering starting from the official images, which I fully confess isn't the most newbie friendly thing to do). My running system is based on a hard drive install of Knoppix despite all the reasons not to do so, but I find SBL's screen navigation super intuitive whereas espeakup's makes me wonder if that's how someone who grew up in the era of the GUI feels when they encounter their first command prompt as an adult, plus I like being able to launch Firefox without launching a full desktop and having good, old LXDE waiting for me on the rare occasions I need a full desktop. Would gladly switch to vanilla Debian if I had any clue how to get SBL running as default console screen reader and could figure out launching a single application graphical session with orca. As for the stability of my setup, I take full responsibility for most of the breakages that force me to boot Knoppix from DVD and restore my root partition from backup and the fact I don't create such backups nearly as often as I should, but then again, I'm a bit of an incessant tinker. Overly long commentary on my chosen distro aside, I think an important point to remember here is that many of us are experienced Linux users and were so prior to having any reason to care about Linux accessibility. Much of what we consider straight forward and intuitive might seem intimidating to a Linux oldbie suffering sight loss, or downright terrifying to a blind user dipping their toes in Linux for the first time(and I realize this list has both, but I'd expect those groups to be asking about accessible distros rather than giving opinions thereof), and speaking more generally, what seems obvious and intuitive to an insider on any subject can be downright esoteric to an outsider looking in.