From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx03.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.13]) by lists01.pubmisc.prod.ext.phx2.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id w1RMOIqw029031 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2018 17:24:18 -0500 Received: by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) id B707117A81; Tue, 27 Feb 2018 22:24:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx1.redhat.com (ext-mx02.extmail.prod.ext.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.110.26]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ADCBF60C19 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2018 22:24:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-oi0-f42.google.com (mail-oi0-f42.google.com [209.85.218.42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 35AF772761 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2018 22:24:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oi0-f42.google.com with SMTP id t185so325594oif.6 for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2018 14:24:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to; bh=En4mFBPb8Uu3iSkyk9jZCSsC+N/QAcPgAKABUYhNtG0=; b=hCCLTI+2VbBUCSbB2dRdn42T81J32ikMGpXqfGFggsfaJMon5zTh8XpB+zhtH5pUaG xB17ubygS7Sel0s75OoXfVP1bGEsb6GlK3jYEZIcrxAcvDvuWo9Djtn9j3QjXVpSFiYe YJgGTRXE8J87aY+Tll3ci5OCw4kMd16VHo4y/jo0SagDa2AYPczJf6lixmMKRkeyiUov u319tBaToc/Fr3EIcTRZ00nVDg0x3zUn9sAifte1Jz+QokUJ1Yxk0Z8BSZLPdMqd/+ss 137PkNzcFn/Os58pnD3xtNYF81pQ/iUpH7NN9E7NdLrhMamlOLWAjVJzSFYDgllYRiUB K57g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to; bh=En4mFBPb8Uu3iSkyk9jZCSsC+N/QAcPgAKABUYhNtG0=; b=sWXVWyoc+PmSr0xsLzzNbFPKkBmcXMf1LLBs6GmaAHnFKtIxv2jQ6Gf+SX9PT7JwtF kf9sJLsKJjGhDIWVl3bTNYQYuZLoQaox35DE6YBiOhWXJYwYp4sspMjP0oqjqqKWBnFC MpMH4G7z7z7VTAxa+QCguf3lTrI4kWwRg48z9i6gUy7WoCMqhcch7y71MRcvRMsrRej8 R6B9YR8m9PjmppjF7y4WAwkxbiYJCWl6N8VITmCbDqW8HxHR0beINTIqab0diRxsChlv BoGGqv+hBp3DddGUELka8JXSpdbtxGD0KmxD3rKwWY6eSkcQBhRoGAKvu2G69fuumb+O fIsQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPBppsYBfdiUwv7DrCs+jgILsMtS4JZ/lia68mKmZlcp4KJU9Ke7 AqD7gGeWCP+oI0vysfk4Fl4SbuP8CJ0akv21lZcYEg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AG47ELtYK7+vvPDFwSDMMqrar2wgE0TpobmKbHZH8qud5gmFau8uEENIbldoHZiWw5kkVM5ZuxscutYz5nnpcDiQuko= X-Received: by 10.202.81.13 with SMTP id f13mr9346813oib.54.1519770254419; Tue, 27 Feb 2018 14:24:14 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.157.8.245 with HTTP; Tue, 27 Feb 2018 14:23:53 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2018 14:23:53 -0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: UYyCk0z3NMlGDmi4HyCE7DgNDTs Message-ID: Subject: Re: Screen reader advice for a Linux sysadmin To: blinux-list@redhat.com X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.5.16 (mx1.redhat.com [10.5.110.26]); Tue, 27 Feb 2018 22:24:15 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: inspected by milter-greylist-4.5.16 (mx1.redhat.com [10.5.110.26]); Tue, 27 Feb 2018 22:24:15 +0000 (UTC) for IP:'209.85.218.42' DOMAIN:'mail-oi0-f42.google.com' HELO:'mail-oi0-f42.google.com' FROM:'kathryn.a.k.taylor@gmail.com' RCPT:'' X-RedHat-Spam-Score: -0.129 (DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_FROM, HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL, SPF_PASS) 209.85.218.42 mail-oi0-f42.google.com 209.85.218.42 mail-oi0-f42.google.com X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.78 on 10.5.110.26 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.79 on 10.5.11.13 X-loop: blinux-list@redhat.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.12 From: Linux for blind general discussion X-BeenThere: blinux-list@redhat.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: junk Reply-To: blinux-list@redhat.com List-Id: Linux for blind general discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2018 22:24:18 -0000 More great info, thank you! This and what others have said has given me a lot to look into and try. As to the braille, I agree with you. I have already taken a couple of classes in it, but I have not kept up with it, mostly because I wasn't desperate enough at the time I think. But the writing is on the wall and I need to get back to it. I found it rather difficult to learn but I know it gets better with practice. :) Kathy On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 1:27 PM, Linux for blind general discussion < blinux-list@redhat.com> wrote: > Kathy, > well, there are several options in a straight linux environment. > > ORCA is, by far, the most used for any of the Desktop managers in Linux > and X. It works best in GTK and Gnome based DM's and is mostly usable in > KDE. > > There is also Speakup for console operations. This along with BrlTTY, > Emacsspeak and some of the lessor known console based TTS engines are > useful. The first 3 are most commonly used and are quite configurable. > > As an aside, I have found JAVA to be notorious for it's lack of > accessibility, even in an OS X environment (I use a mac here and always > have problems with Java, especially when the accessibility classes are not > used) I have not tried java outside of windows or OS X, but there might be > better results inside of Linux. > > btw, NVDA can handle some things in windows that Jaws can't, and Vice > Versa. I have often found that you need to have both (not running at the > same time). Also, there are some apps in windows that are just plain > inaccessible, regardless of whatever screen reader gets used (case in point > is the safari web browser which presents what amounts to a blank scroll > area). I have written apple accessibility on that issue and am not sure if > they ever got around to addressing those issues. > > btw, one additional item you might wish to explore, learning braille. > Believe me, it will come in handy especially when you are editing scripts > and the screen reader makes a hash of it so far as reading them is > concerned. > > Now, I am largely a self taught Linux System Administrator. I have used > the OSsince late 1998 (along side windows and after 2008, OS X as well). > Each OS has it's good points and can do some stuff that others might not. > > lastly, you might find working inside a VM a little frustrating without a > screen reader on the inside it. Most screen readers on the host OS cannot > read what's inside the application pane of virtually any VM (parallels, > VmWare, etc). These panes are designed to emulate the direct output of a > monitor connected to the Vm, so it will be graphical in presentation as > well as base nature. > > I hope this helps you. > On Feb 27, 2018, at 11:55 AM, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: > > > Hi everyone -- > > > > I just joined this list and I am a Linux sysadmin who has been in IT for > > over 20 years and my sight now is pretty close to nothing. I am down to > > about 5 degrees of vision and going to nothing at some point, so am > > starting to look at screen readers to get used to them before everything > > goes dark. I'm looking to see what other Linux users use and what works > > best. I have a somewhat complicated desktop because I work in an > > engineering environment that has a lot of engineering tools based on java > > and X-Windows. Some of the other tools are web based, which makes it > > easier. I support a lot of varying tools and servers, both Linux and > > Windows. I switched back from Linux to Windows as my base desktop for > the > > accessibility functions. I have cygwin installed so I can ssh to my > > servers. I also use VNC Viewer so I can get to a VNC session on my > servers > > in a gui and I also use RDP to get to my Windows servers. I have decided > > that I loathe JAWS in the short time that I have tried it but admittedly > I > > have not used it for very long. I so far like NVDA much better and find > it > > much more simple to learn. I also use a Mac at home so have toyed with > > Voiceover. I'm beginning to think that one screen reader is not going to > > do it all for me. And that I just need to get used to one of them to > > start. NVDA can read and understand a cygwin window, which is great. It > > has zero idea what is inside a VNC viewer session. I haven't yet tried > it > > on an RDP session with Windows. I know ORCA is available as well on > > Linux. What do you all use? Any advice? I'm wondering if I would be > > better off with a Mac as my base operating system since I've heard > > Voiceover handles Java apps better. > > > > Thanks for the advice! > > > > Kathy > > _______________________________________________ > > Blinux-list mailing list > > Blinux-list@redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > _______________________________________________ > Blinux-list mailing list > Blinux-list@redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list >