From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx01.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.11]) by lists01.pubmisc.prod.ext.phx2.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id w1SGBGIv020358 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2018 11:11:16 -0500 Received: by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) id B21B419E67; Wed, 28 Feb 2018 16:11:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx1.redhat.com (ext-mx06.extmail.prod.ext.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.110.30]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7600620C4 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2018 16:11:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-pg0-f42.google.com (mail-pg0-f42.google.com [74.125.83.42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 80C933683C for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2018 16:11:10 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pg0-f42.google.com with SMTP id g12so1115557pgs.0 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2018 08:11:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:mime-version:subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=MOPY35Fv6+74koroMootmy8Ny2LDHlsV10+j6hgrkJI=; b=RDPeBO0hxsfHC0kOXHrGYjQuZVP2aBYq7xiydJXJ5Vhzd0s9n6DbWxsSvNtK36MZ0p gEYPUwsU7i74dhuNU0vN0XqxQiJs4OBsmU6rdcc0RjqSEGBsaNRKW6v/AsEN+GX0SQ66 vJD5bV4Z5DBatQowYMpADfI7qdiDredc4/xEUD2TlJkjsFUeoP2F8EARu0EIeJh6ipIj UZF3bhxkQamYa2G1BiEXnjn/JAXgfcW3x1L+kTzNA/VSdWSzHKk1Dx0dgncqrS8DmOaj Kyvh7Yg8iXEnycOIxjxh2ZSuJfeEramaAJnPIsVI0ElE89+oEIih8CP2KjVhNYgFaTky 89sA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:subject:date:references:to :in-reply-to:message-id; bh=MOPY35Fv6+74koroMootmy8Ny2LDHlsV10+j6hgrkJI=; b=ElzlhHGTwLpU+nc8MgLFz873sCuzHdD4Z+j4NUct1XdL1piXVmWJZnfY45DqiAKe/s h3kQuHNRyTGyVhiWNzCrxuM0dgRFYaKPf6azQuWgZYSDytfome2tVLNQaLs4hnCzdK+E p7D37yosBJ4Yrae6I36btGq2LxWlDDpZsP0vYf4+aRChLPbILBnuq4sj8BQ8OO7jbHyM Nm7ZWUx46vulL1/MHzk0H4Zw4vP4EV8kSwP9+Jj3HT10RR+ntRGd2uT5FJfULonmJ2Lz 66nby/XYIqBewp62uGPuEBiDBXEkbn9EN9AiY2hz1vyZ9V6FWpiU1N0ZXkfUKmm+Gous YuWA== X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPAmWah/FY2yJB+nxw/V+oa7spINGK4GgZ4l9HhTcTIpriNi/1nB VV3uHS0CoqrsCLP3DyYr5eLrvCiv X-Google-Smtp-Source: AH8x227D5gRA7DAAwVvlgHyX76fcT66IVoeqO4OF87rFVw+7Tdg10ZrNVVLg5m/EQKYZJyYDr/hWaQ== X-Received: by 10.99.115.73 with SMTP id d9mr15074287pgn.354.1519834268491; Wed, 28 Feb 2018 08:11:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from bryans-mbp.mobile.asu.edu ([149.169.9.178]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s127sm4616836pfb.178.2018.02.28.08.11.07 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 28 Feb 2018 08:11:07 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.2 \(3445.5.20\)) Subject: Re: Screen reader advice for a Linux sysadmin Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 09:11:06 -0700 References: <20180228085238.GG25455@v.cs-x.de> To: blinux-list@redhat.com In-Reply-To: <20180228085238.GG25455@v.cs-x.de> Message-Id: X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.5.16 (mx1.redhat.com [10.5.110.30]); Wed, 28 Feb 2018 16:11:10 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: inspected by milter-greylist-4.5.16 (mx1.redhat.com [10.5.110.30]); Wed, 28 Feb 2018 16:11:10 +0000 (UTC) for IP:'74.125.83.42' DOMAIN:'mail-pg0-f42.google.com' HELO:'mail-pg0-f42.google.com' FROM:'bryan0731@gmail.com' RCPT:'' X-RedHat-Spam-Score: 0.131 (DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID, DKIM_VALID_AU, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT, FREEMAIL_FROM, HTML_MESSAGE, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL, SPF_PASS, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT) 74.125.83.42 mail-pg0-f42.google.com 74.125.83.42 mail-pg0-f42.google.com X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.78 on 10.5.110.30 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.79 on 10.5.11.11 X-loop: blinux-list@redhat.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.12 From: Linux for blind general discussion X-BeenThere: blinux-list@redhat.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: junk Reply-To: blinux-list@redhat.com List-Id: Linux for blind general discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2018 16:11:16 -0000 Hello Schoepp, I can answer all of these questions for you and I will present a few of = my own for you. Your Questions: I am still interested how people are able to work in the Mac=20 terminal with VoiceOver successfully and productively. Are there any=20 settings for the Mac terminal that make VoiceOver support better or dou=20= you use another screenreader for the Mac terminal and not VoiceOver?=20 Answer: I am curious what commands or functions you found to not work in the Mac = terminal? I use the Mac osX terminal running bash every single day and = have no problems at all. The only screen reader available for Mac is = Voiceover and it works perfectly in the terminal or any other = application on the Mac. To answer your question, no I only use Voiceover = in the terminal on my Mac. How ofthen do you work in the Mac terminal, are you also working=20 remotely on other systems via ssh and which tools are you using?=20 Answer: Yes I absolutely use SSH every time I am on my computer because my = Ubuntu 16.04 machine is actually running on an Amazon Web Services = instance in the cloud. I do all my Cyber Security development, pen = testing, and server admin remotely between my Mac terminal and AWS linux = box via SSH. The only tool I use for any of this is my terminal. The built in SSH = support through bash is all I need.. Do you=20 use the latest Mac OS version or which system is running on your Mac?=20= Answer: Yes I am always running the latest Mac osX to make sure I am up-to-date = with security and running the latest tools. Do you use also a brailledisplay on the Mac and in the terminal? Answer: I do in deed us a Braille display on my Mac with no problem. I have a = Focus 40 Blue and it works great. I will admit that I do not know = Computer Braille yet but I would very much like to learn it so I can use = Braille when developing software. It is on my to learn list for sure... My questions: 1. I am running Ubuntu 16.04 on my HP laptop but with little success in = the terminal due to things not being spoken. I am running Orca as the = screen reader. Can you provide some tips or how toos for making my = terminal access and over all Linux experience more accessible? 2. You said "After using a Mac for a few weeks at work I was very = disappointed.=20 Especialy the VoiceOver support in the terminal is not more then=20 rudimentary compared to the things you can do with a screenreader on a=20= linux system." Can you share with me what troubles you had with accessing the terminal = on a Mac with Voiceover? I can issue any command, access the output, = grep, redirect stdout to a file, use home brew to access external = packages, and SSH. If you had any issues with these functions please let = me know and I can help out with that off list if you are still = interested.=20 I would also like to know how in fact you perform some of these exact = tasks using Linux in the terminal because this is what Ineed to access = for the work I am doing. =E2=80=A2 copy stdout text =E2=80=A2 switch between several terminal windows =E2=80=A2 copy and paste text from outside program i.e Fire fox Thanks and I look forward to your reply.=20 textbased environment and orca in Mate. Bryan Duarte | software engineer ASU Computer Science Ph.D Student IGERT Fellow Alliance for Person-centered Accessible Technology (APAcT) Center for Cognitive Ubiquitous Computing (CUbiC Lab) National Federation of the Blind of Arizona | Affiliate Board Member National Association of Blind Students | Board Member Arizona Association of Blind Students | President Phone: 480-652-3045 > On Feb 28, 2018, at 1:52 AM, Linux for blind general discussion = wrote: >=20 > Hi Bryan, >=20 > On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 12:12:06PM -0700, Linux for blind general=20 > discussion wrote: >>=20 >> I use Mac due to its high quality screen reader, easy to use=20 >> interface, and access to Unix terminal. >=20 > I had the same idea a few years ago and thought that a Mac would be = the=20 > best solution for my needs. A Mac has a modern and easy to use=20 > graphical interface and has also all things which are needed if you = have=20 > to work in a textbased terminal. I am also a linux admin since 15 = years=20 > and for my work I have to use a terminal most of the time, but = sometimes=20 > a modern browser or other tools are needed that are running in = graphical=20 > mode. >=20 > After using a Mac for a few weeks at work I was very disappointed.=20 > Especialy the VoiceOver support in the terminal is not more then=20 > rudimentary compared to the things you can do with a screenreader on a=20= > linux system. Because of this I switched back to a linuxbased system = and=20 > I am using Debian on a laptop now with brltty and espeak in the=20 > textbased environment and orca in Mate. >=20 > But I am still interested how people are able to work in the Mac=20 > terminal with VoiceOver successfully and productively. Are there any=20= > settings for the Mac terminal that make VoiceOver support better or = dou=20 > you use another screenreader for the Mac terminal and not VoiceOver?=20= > How ofthen do you work in the Mac terminal, are you also working=20 > remotely on other systems via ssh and which tools are you using? Do = you=20 > use the latest Mac OS version or which system is running on your Mac?=20= > Do you use also a brailledisplay on the Mac and in the terminal? >=20 > Cheers and all the best from Munich, >=20 > Schoepp >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Christian Schoepplein - -=20 > http://schoeppi.net >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Blinux-list mailing list > Blinux-list@redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list