From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx03.intmail.prod.int.rdu2.redhat.com [10.11.54.3]) by lists01.pubmisc.prod.ext.phx2.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 021Mp9RT012637 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 2020 17:51:09 -0500 Received: by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) id 1EC1810EE824; Sun, 1 Mar 2020 22:51:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mimecast-mx02.redhat.com (mimecast04.extmail.prod.ext.rdu2.redhat.com [10.11.55.20]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1965410EE821 for ; Sun, 1 Mar 2020 22:51:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from us-smtp-1.mimecast.com (us-smtp-delivery-1.mimecast.com [207.211.31.120]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx02.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 72971101A55D for ; Sun, 1 Mar 2020 22:51:06 +0000 (UTC) ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dkim.mimecast.com; s=201903; t=1583103066; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=5AamU4GyxxQYgWYaP0UTFS0Vx+HVAitOijwq3WIap2w=; b=JiMZCccfVstlLqRSeePcbDYJwOtuNnII9BAySFqs0dPL5XNnRAgj8cm+JwJeVN4nZyFTls vrFyQL9HoCzJrRd6/rg4mqIfyYxCiERH/VGy2leYkynMW/AV6wYyV7REcP1XA8TGXPvivY HtVj/ch6IhKys+YerHowd5Ps+NugwpMUXWOGVHHePCpjVwrv7oZL44qjPgFscI20coQyfk 4cCpH/WEC0DKcl4ut+saNCMujns124lw23BOiuZE9nxU3R6+Wfv9BeEIc8KhGyfkQSmP/C 9LUxmejB6hKwzukk0P+VluwD43Fw4vpz8RHrteB6W7gUCUV3pWhSrGwmOV1qaQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=201903; d=dkim.mimecast.com; t=1583103066; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=Ka8VQV7so5wFBUPVQb3WzfwKqpYB5vntc/XA5ihRF3eAKfN88NdG1phByRrwJBuSdR5tYy zfZE1RfXj1tPjnPprRFPfnMT6CYz4HVtGHzXEpWCwgtaH1hHuuvtov1olT8aN1u1jVRHEM 0iZKk490AV8H3zwliAowsuw+sq0bu4gbhYp6JImYGuCDFbPBzU9fbh/kVaoRmjoDZJOfTg o8bOBvRIx91On0yH/fUOLFtYHDOTAxNIg2O8n0ThbChSjMRR1yOdGRyhzWOqpvI8DjiD0k 7nUuFjE5v18MpKEwHxAwnhy6hhQoBu4Mexhxo/ECgAlTjdNSzw9NsezsX98fcg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; relay.mimecast.com; dkim=none; spf=none (relay.mimecast.com: domain of appartement.cdm@free.fr has no SPF policy when checking 212.27.42.4) smtp.mailfrom=appartement.cdm@free.fr Received: from smtp4-g21.free.fr (smtp4-g21.free.fr [212.27.42.4]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-371-WlSt7KqRN3qRgrHRcOy9Aw-1; Sun, 01 Mar 2020 17:51:04 -0500 X-MC-Unique: WlSt7KqRN3qRgrHRcOy9Aw-1 Received: from darkstar.slint.fr (unknown [176.172.247.100]) (Authenticated sender: appartement.cdm) by smtp4-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5CC0819F54D for ; Sun, 1 Mar 2020 23:51:02 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Want to try a GUI. Which one is best? To: blinux-list@redhat.com References: <20200301111759.GA12551@abilitiessoft> <20200301173057.GA14419@abilitiessoft> <80de511c-46b2-48ee-47d2-8f4802de9ec0@slint.fr> Message-ID: <6e6cdd56-46de-fee9-6d31-8c75f326cba1@free.fr> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 23:51:02 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <80de511c-46b2-48ee-47d2-8f4802de9ec0@slint.fr> Content-Language: en-US Authentication-Results: relay.mimecast.com; dkim=none; spf=none (relay.mimecast.com: domain of appartement.cdm@free.fr has no SPF policy when checking 212.27.42.4) smtp.mailfrom=appartement.cdm@free.fr X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.78 on 10.11.54.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by lists01.pubmisc.prod.ext.phx2.redhat.com id 021Mp9RT012637 X-loop: blinux-list@redhat.com From: Linux for blind general discussion X-BeenThere: blinux-list@redhat.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: junk Reply-To: blinux-list@redhat.com List-Id: Linux for blind general discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2020 22:51:09 -0000 Hello, Didier Spaier, Slint maintainer here. This looks rather convoluted to me. A lot simpler: 1. Install Slint (speech and braille are enabled during installation). Accept the default settings when asked (start in console mode, choose Mate as default graphical environment). 2. Start Slint. You will be in a console, with speech and Braille active. 3. Type 'startx' when you want. You will be in Mate with the Orca screen reader active. At time of writing Slint ships Mate 1.22, hopefully will be upgraded to 1.24 next week. Slint includes Compiz, with all accessibilty features set up. To know more, read: http://slackware.uk/slint/x86_64/slint-14.2.1/README.installation And the docs in: http://slackware.uk/slint/x86_64/slint-14.2.1/doc/ Beginning with: http://slackware.uk/slint/x86_64/slint-14.2.1/doc/Accessibility/Accessibility Questions? Register to the Slint mailing lists sending an email to: ecartis@freelists.org from the email address you will use to send messages to the list, with just in the Subject line: join slint Best regards, Didier Le 01/03/2020 à 21:30, Linux for blind general discussion a écrit : > Ouch. All that just seems like a lot of roundabout to have to do. I install a full MATE desktop along with Orca, set org.gnome.desktop.a11y.applications screen-reader-enabled and org.mate.interface accessibility true if necessary and use the lxdm display manager to start it. I then only have to change three lines to get a fully accessible desktop running at boot time. First, I uncomment the line that begins with autologin and set it true. Then I change the automatically logged in user from dgod to my username and uncomment that line. Then the only other thing I need to do is to uncomment the line that begins with session and change it from /usr/bin/startlxde to /usr/bin/mate-session. This approach of course doesn't work all that well on multi-user systems, but in most cases it's all you need. In this way, you always start with a desktop running, and if you need to do anything in a terminal, you can just open mate-terminal. I find myself using the terminal rather infrequently these d > ays for anything other than building source code, complex file management that still works better from a shell and package management, although there are package management applications available for most distros that don't require a terminal and work rather well, especially for finding new software. Most applications work so well with Orca that I have found desktop applications generally easier to use than chatty terminal output and page-by-page reading and the like. > > On March 1, 2020 1:07:30 PM EST, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: >> The most useful approach for accessibility users unless they use a >> mouse >> is to install startx and ratpoison and then have ratpoison run which >> brings up startx and startx then brings up mate. The ratpoison is a >> package which when you get it working makes startx accessible more so >> than it already is. >> >> On Sun, 1 Mar 2020, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: >> >>> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 13:02:51 >>> From: Linux for blind general discussion >>> To: Linux for blind general discussion >>> Subject: Re: Want to try a GUI. Which one is best? >>> >>> This is really something debian does not provide. Archlinux that can >> be >>> done with installing a few of the correct packages and I don't >> remember >>> the list now didn't save it in braille. Now, with slint you can do >> all >>> of that and that's one of the installation choices. Slint doesn't >> have >>> gnome either but does have mate. >>> https://slint.fr/ is the first url and search the page for >> accessibility >>> and read what you find. >>> >>> On Sun, 1 Mar 2020, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: >>> >>>> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 12:30:57 >>>> From: Linux for blind general discussion >>>> To: Linux for blind general discussion >>>> Subject: Re: Want to try a GUI. Which one is best? >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> Thanks for all your suggestions. I have Debian Buster, command-line >> only. I may just wait until the next Debian testing is available and >> see if they include Mate. >>>> I >>>> will be using brltty, and no speech. >>>> >>>> This leaves one concern in my original message for discussion. I >> want Debian to boot into the command-line, but I want to have a command >> or script for starting >>>> the GUI when I need it. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> John J. Boyer >>>> >>>> On Sun, Mar 01, 2020 at 01:54:07PM +0000, Linux for blind general >> discussion wrote: >>>>> Best I can tell, Mate 1.24 is currently available in both Debian >>>>> Testing(aka Bull's Eye which will eventually become Debian 11) >> and >>>>> Debian Unstable(aka Sid). >>>>> >>>>> It's unlikely something as big as a new version of Mate will make >> it >>>>> into Debian 9 aka Stretch or oldstable or Debian 10 aka Buster or >>>>> Stable as Debian priortizes stability over cutting edge, though >> it >>>>> might make it into backports(more likely for Buster than for >> Stretch, >>>>> but I confess to not knowing how long Debian supports Oldstable >> when a >>>>> new Stable is released). >>>>> >>>>> That said, while Orca, the primary, and possibly only, graphical >>>>> screen reader for Linux, is officially part of Gnome and >> persumably >>>>> optimized for that environment, and probably works so well with >> Mate >>>>> due to Mate's origins as a Gnome fork(as I understand it, Gnome 3 >>>>> brought many controversial changes to look and feel and Mate >> startedas >>>>> a way to keep the Gnome 2.x look and feel in an updated >> environment), >>>>> Orca should, in theory, be able to work with any GTK-based >> Desktop >>>>> Environment or Window Manager, though anything QT-based(KDE chief >>>>> among them) is currently a bit hit or miss. >>>>> >>>>> Gnome or Mate might be the best options for a beginner as they're >> the >>>>> most well documented DEs for using them with Orca, but Knoppix >> using a >>>>> combination of LXDE and Orca when launching a full Desktop seems >> to >>>>> work well, and I've heard people have had success with the >> ratpoison >>>>> window Manager.