Concerning BLinux project (fwd)

Concerning BLinux project (fwd)

[Hans Zoebelein]

Hi Blinuxers,

Aaron is looking for a software project in the context of Blinux. 
If we help him out, he might help us out. 
Wha about these CX interface libs? 

Enjoy!
Hans 


---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 08:28:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Corbin <ac1164@messiah.edu>
To: zocki@goldfish.cube.net
Cc: aaron corbin <ac1164@mailman.messiah.edu>
Subject: Concerning BLinux project

Hi, I'm a senior computer science major at Messiah College.  I'm in the
stages of trying to find a senior project.  If I could write something
that would contribute to the BLinux project, that would be great.  But I
don't really know what to write (I just found the website two days ago),
and not being blind, I don't even know what would be really
useful.  Is there anything you could think of that *needs* to be written,
and (sadly) is novel enough that I could use it as a senior project?  Are
you the right person to be asking this?  Should I ask someone else?

Thanks for your time,
Aaron Corbin.    

Re: Concerning BLinux project

[T.Pospisek's MailLists]

On Sun, 6 Dec 1998, Hans Zoebelein wrote:

> Wha about these CX interface libs? 

I don't really get the importance of those.

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 08:28:34 -0500 (EST)
> From: Corbin <ac1164@messiah.edu>
> To: zocki@goldfish.cube.net
> Cc: aaron corbin <ac1164@mailman.messiah.edu>
> Subject: Concerning BLinux project
> 
> Hi, I'm a senior computer science major at Messiah College.  I'm in the
> stages of trying to find a senior project.  If I could write something
> that would contribute to the BLinux project, that would be great.  But I
> don't really know what to write (I just found the website two days ago),
> and not being blind, I don't even know what would be really
> useful.  Is there anything you could think of that *needs* to be written,
> and (sadly) is novel enough that I could use it as a senior project?  Are
> you the right person to be asking this?  Should I ask someone else?

Hi Aaron,

your email has been forwarded to the blinux mailing list by Hans. Here's
my opinion on the topic:

The goal of the blinux project is the availability of a linux system that
can be perfectly used >without< the need to see.

In the process of trying to set up such a system I have come accross the
problem, that there are far too many different parts around that
>don't fit together<. You've got a speech output system for emacs called
emacspeak. For this you have drivers for braille terminals, for speech
cards and for software synthesisers. There are screen-reader packages
which themselves need yet other drivers. There are kernel patches
which enable feedback through speech and/or braille which use still other
drivers.

In short: it's a mess.

Peoples efforts are lost becase they go on reinventing the wheel
(interfaces/drivers/interpreters) again and again. What I feel is
>>badly<< needed is an effort to see through the available work, get a
picture of what's around, have a look at research and existing development
(Java's speech interface, Microsoft's, the Freespeech interface, etc.) and
propose:

- a simple and generic text to speech/braille interface

I have hints on this list, that there might be something like that in
on the way (at least the seeds of it). See for example Roger Buthenut's
recent postings on this list.

The interface >>really<< needs to be generic enough to be able to adapt to
a broad range of applications and to be to easily accomodate ports of
existing drivers, so it should be done with thought and consideration of
the research and work that's around. I think this could be a very
rewarding work.

My 2c.
*
t

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Tomas Pospisek - Freelance: Linuxing, Networking
                      http://spin.ch/~tpo/freelance
         www.SPIN.ch - Internet Services in Graubuenden/Switzerland
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Concerning BLinux project (fwd)

[Jude Dashiell]

Linux needs a decent OCR package that can work with a scanner and what is
mostly needed by users of the blinux project is ascii coming out of the
other side of the optical character recognition.  


------------------------------------------------------------------------

jude <jdashiel@clark.net>

OCR software (was Re: Concerning BLinux project (fwd))

[Jason White]

On the subject of freely available OCR software, currently under
development, see http://www.socr.org/

What is most needed as output is not straightforward ASCII text, but
rather a document which has been marked up in SGML, XML or a related
language, that preserves its structure and maintains the distinctions
necessary for the generation of high quality braille and audio output.

Re: OCR software (was Re: Concerning BLinux project (fwd))

[Jude Dashiell]

That site can't be located by lynx.  Either busy or nonexistent.
On Mon, 7
Dec 1998, Jason White wrote:

> On the subject of freely available OCR software, currently under
> development, see http://www.socr.org/
> 
> What is most needed as output is not straightforward ASCII text, but
> rather a document which has been marked up in SGML, XML or a related
> language, that preserves its structure and maintains the distinctions
> necessary for the generation of high quality braille and audio output.
> 
> 
> ---
> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> with subject line: unsubscribe
> 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

jude <jdashiel@clark.net>

Re: OCR software (was Re: Concerning BLinux project (fwd))

[Jack Berdeaux]

nonexistent!

Jude Dashiell wrote:

> That site can't be located by lynx.  Either busy or nonexistent.
> On Mon, 7
> Dec 1998, Jason White wrote:
>
> > On the subject of freely available OCR software, currently under
> > development, see http://www.socr.org/
> >
> > What is most needed as output is not straightforward ASCII text, but
> > rather a document which has been marked up in SGML, XML or a related
> > language, that preserves its structure and maintains the distinctions
> > necessary for the generation of high quality braille and audio output.
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> > Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> > Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> > To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> > with subject line: unsubscribe
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> jude <jdashiel@clark.net>
>
> ---
> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> with subject line: unsubscribe

Re: OCR software (was Re: Concerning BLinux project (fwd))

[Ron Marriage]

Had the same problem the first time, tried a second time and got in.
Later tried again, and still got a no DNS for first try, but came up again
on second try.  

Ron


At 08:10 PM 12/6/98 -0500, Jude Dashiell wrote:
>That site can't be located by lynx.  Either busy or nonexistent.
>On Mon, 7
>Dec 1998, Jason White wrote:
>
>> On the subject of freely available OCR software, currently under
>> development, see http://www.socr.org/


Ron Marriage
Email    = mailto:marriage@seidata.com
Homepage = http://www.seidata.com/~marriage/
Blind Related Links
http://www.seidata.com/~marriage/rblind.html
or
http://welcome.to/blindlinks

Re: OCR software (was Re: Concerning BLinux project (fwd))

[Jack Berdeaux]

It is working now  http://www.socr.org/

Jason White wrote:

> On the subject of freely available OCR software, currently under
> development, see http://www.socr.org/
>
> What is most needed as output is not straightforward ASCII text, but
> rather a document which has been marked up in SGML, XML or a related
> language, that preserves its structure and maintains the distinctions
> necessary for the generation of high quality braille and audio output.
>
> ---
> Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
> Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
> Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
> To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
> with subject line: unsubscribe

Re: OCR software (was Re: Concerning BLinux project (fwd))

[Jude Dashiell]

Is that a new domain?  Reason I ask is I tried a second time and still no
cigar.


------------------------------------------------------------------------

jude <jdashiel@clark.net>

Re: Concerning BLinux project (fwd)

[Jason White]

One worthwhile project would be to design a user interface that provides
generic components which capture the semantic distinctions required for
spoken interaction and can also be presented graphically. This could be
based on an analysis of the types of input/output options required by
various types of interactions with application software. The resulting
system would need to be easy and natural for programmers to include in
their applications and also provide controls over the presentation in
different media, so that the visual, auditory and tactile renderings could
be independently customised.

Important and relevant analysis is provided in T. V. Raman's excellent
book, Auditory User Interfaces, Toward the Speaking Computer (1997),
details of which can be found at his web site.

The essential idea would be to extend the distinction between content and
presentation, which has been developed in structured markup languages, to
the entire user interface by creating a general means of specifying
interaction semantics and then specific presentational controls.

I am sure that experts in the u i field have developed proposals of this
kind.

Re: Concerning BLinux project (fwd)

[Jason White]

Yes, I am also growing tired of the continual discussion of operating
system installation on this list. What I was trying to imply in my message
yesterday is that various solutions are available, they have all been
discussed on this list, it doesn't take much time or effort for a
knowledgeable user to install the software for a friend, and perhaps it is
time to relegate this topic to the background.

I am sure there is a mailing list somewhere devoted to Linux installation.

Re: Concerning BLinux project (fwd)

[aaa]

The list as I understand is to help blind people with their lenux
problems.  Installation comes under that rubric.  If someone wants to talk
about something else, then go ahead and post away.  If you don't have
people who install the program and run it, you won't have lenux users.  I
want to run lenux and intend to when I get my new computer.  Installation
is the first thing I will tackle.  Guess what, I don't have any compident
lenux users around.  So I will have to do it myself.
Andy

Re: Concerning BLinux project (fwd)

[Dave Mielke]

On Tue, 8 Dec 1998 aaa@netcom.com wrote:
>Guess what, I don't have any compident
>lenux users around.  So I will have to do it myself.

All you need is someone who can read the screen. If he/she is not Linux
knowledgeable, then add a bit of patience to your own attributes.

When I need to do an install, I enlist the help of one of my children. This not
only enables me to spend time with them, but also trains them to be helpful,
while at the same time teaches them something about computers in general, and
about Linux in particular.

Of course there are moments of frustration when using this technique, because
I, selfishly, would like things to proceed a bit quicker. When all is said and
done, however, I wouldn't want to do it any other way. Time spent with them in
a way which clearly lets them know that I am depending on them in a very real
way sure beats the pride of being able to say that I was able to do it all by
myself.

-- 
Dave Mielke               | 856 Grenon Avenue
Phone: 1-613-726-0014     | Ottawa, Ontario
EMail: dave@mielke.ml.org | Canada  K2B 6G3

Re: OCR software (was Re: Concerning BLinux project (fwd))

[Lloyd G. Rasmussen]

What you ask for is not likely to be available until artificial 
intelligence goes forward much further.  You are asking a computer 
program which knows the *presentation* of a document to correctly 
infer the *structure* of that document, or at least attempt to do so.  

I recently bought Omnipage 9 for Win95 from Caere Corporation.  Among 
all its export formats, it includes an HTML export format.  From what 
I've seen so far, the objective is to make a GUI web browser display 
the page, with fonts, italics, centering, intact.  The HTML is  a 
series of <p> and <br> with Font, I, Align attributes.  No structure.  
It even claims to conform to the HTML 3.0 DTD, and tells you that the 
generator is Adobe Word for Word.  I know that HTML is not SGML.  But 
I'm not too hopeful that when OCR programs begin exporting XML, that 
they will do much better than this. 

I know that Duxbury attempts to create styles in a file which it has 
imported from ASCII, but this is usually just a beginning toward 
correctly marking up a document.  I agree that you're aiming for the 
right objective, but I don't know how we're going to get there.

On Mon, 7 Dec 1998 09:28:03 +1100 (AEDT), 
Jason White   <jasonw@ariel.ucs.unimelb.EDU.AU> wrote:

>On the subject of freely available OCR software, currently under
>development, see http://www.socr.org/
>
>What is most needed as output is not straightforward ASCII text, but
>rather a document which has been marked up in SGML, XML or a related
>language, that preserves its structure and maintains the distinctions
>necessary for the generation of high quality braille and audio output.
>
>
>---
>Send your message for blinux-list to blinux-list@redhat.com
>Blinux software archive at ftp://leb.net/pub/blinux
>Blinux web page at http://leb.net/blinux
>To unsubscribe send mail to blinux-list-request@redhat.com
>with subject line: unsubscribe
>

-- Lloyd Rasmussen
Senior Staff Engineer, Engineering Section
National Library Service for the  Blind and Physically Handicapped
Library of Congress          202-707-0535
(work)       lras@loc.gov    http://www.loc.gov/nls/
(home) lras@sprynet.com http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/lras/      

Re: OCR software (was Re: Concerning BLinux project (fwd))

[Jude Dashiell]

That o.c.r. site is alive.  I tried three times tonight and
on the third try got through and bookmarked the page.  Thanks much for the
site, however this turns out should be interesting.


------------------------------------------------------------------------

jude <jdashiel@clark.net>