From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx02.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.12]) by lists01.pubmisc.prod.ext.phx2.redhat.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v51NiYWS016026 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 19:44:43 -0400 Received: by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) id BC91060E38; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 23:44:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx1.redhat.com (ext-mx07.extmail.prod.ext.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.110.31]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B48F518A79 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 23:44:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from chameleon.ash.relay.mailchannels.net (chameleon.ash.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.222.33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CD5BBC027413 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 23:44:24 +0000 (UTC) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.3.2 mx1.redhat.com CD5BBC027413 Authentication-Results: ext-mx07.extmail.prod.ext.phx2.redhat.com; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=thechases.com Authentication-Results: ext-mx07.extmail.prod.ext.phx2.redhat.com; spf=tempfail smtp.mailfrom=blinux.list@thechases.com DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 mx1.redhat.com CD5BBC027413 X-Sender-Id: wwwh2|x-authuser|tim@thechases.com Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 574E27C511E for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 23:44:21 +0000 (UTC) Received: from uscentral455.accountservergroup.com (unknown [100.96.131.87]) (Authenticated sender: wwwh2) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 480827C5E58 for ; Thu, 1 Jun 2017 23:44:17 +0000 (UTC) X-Sender-Id: wwwh2|x-authuser|tim@thechases.com Received: from uscentral455.accountservergroup.com (uscentral455.accountservergroup.com [172.20.72.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384) by 0.0.0.0:2500 (trex/5.9.4); Thu, 01 Jun 2017 23:44:21 +0000 X-MC-Relay: Neutral X-MailChannels-SenderId: wwwh2|x-authuser|tim@thechases.com X-MailChannels-Auth-Id: wwwh2 X-Bottle-Blushing: 30f29b81281ca9c3_1496360657646_3483529284 X-MC-Loop-Signature: 1496360657646:988354543 X-MC-Ingress-Time: 1496360657646 Received: from 172-0-250-193.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net ([172.0.250.193]:54489 helo=bigbox.christie.dr) by uscentral455.accountservergroup.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1dGZlI-002C7h-1B for blinux-list@redhat.com; Thu, 01 Jun 2017 19:44:16 -0400 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 18:44:15 -0500 To: blinux-list@redhat.com Subject: Re: living in the console. Message-ID: <20170601184415.786f5048@bigbox.christie.dr> In-Reply-To: References: <20170525181847.50b1a16c@bigbox.christie.dr> <5ED6A047-C99B-479C-819B-533A9B3900E4@BlueMail.com> <0BA3D3CA-0D4F-4C93-BBB6-0CE4BC9DCB29@gmail.com> <20170601205645.GA6607@panix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AuthUser: tim@thechases.com X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, Sender IP whitelisted by DNSRBL, ACL 203 matched, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.5.16 (mx1.redhat.com [10.5.110.31]); Thu, 01 Jun 2017 23:44:30 +0000 (UTC) X-Greylist: inspected by milter-greylist-4.5.16 (mx1.redhat.com [10.5.110.31]); Thu, 01 Jun 2017 23:44:30 +0000 (UTC) for IP:'23.83.222.33' DOMAIN:'chameleon.ash.relay.mailchannels.net' HELO:'chameleon.ash.relay.mailchannels.net' FROM:'blinux.list@thechases.com' RCPT:'' X-RedHat-Spam-Score: -2.11 (BAYES_50, DCC_REPUT_13_19, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2) 23.83.222.33 chameleon.ash.relay.mailchannels.net 23.83.222.33 chameleon.ash.relay.mailchannels.net X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.78 on 10.5.110.31 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.79 on 10.5.11.12 X-loop: blinux-list@redhat.com From: Linux for blind general discussion X-BeenThere: blinux-list@redhat.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: junk Reply-To: blinux-list@redhat.com List-Id: Linux for blind general discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jun 2017 23:44:44 -0000 Tim here. The FreeDOS folks just released version 1.2 earlier this year http://www.freedos.org/download/ which is available for free and has multiple installation-media images (ISOs to burn a CD along with a boot-floppy image if your machine is so old that it won't boot to a CD, as well as a disk-image files to write to a USB disk) It's actively developed and should run pretty much any DOS application that you throw at it. -tim On June 1, 2017, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: > Ok, this dos discussion makes me wanna run dos. Coolness! > How can i get it? > > > Mark Peveto > Registered Linux user number 600552 > Everything happens after coffee! > > On Thu, 1 Jun 2017, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: > > > The solution I've been using for years is to use my DOS machine > > running Telix, a vt100 terminal emulator and Vocal Eyes screen > > reader. > > > > Then I just connect to my local linux box using a null modem > > cable and from there run screen for multiple consoles. > > > > Linux does all the heavy lifting including mplayer, lynx, ssh to > > remote accounts etc. > > > > The best part of this mode of operation is that all linux > > consoles feel the same. Regardless whether they are on my local > > box, on my Panix shell account, or on a remote work server. > > > > And as was pointed out, I can control all the speech controls > > from my main keyboard. > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 01, 2017 at 04:02:42PM -0400, Linux for blind general > > discussion wrote: > > > If two local computers are available with one running dos and a > > > compatible screen reader and a user is willing and able to work > > > in the console it's possible with a null modem cable and a > > > program like kermit or commo on the dos machine to connect to > > > the other computer running linux and have all console output > > > redirected out the linux serial port to the dos box. I did > > > this once with only one version of linux and the information on > > > how to do that is in one of linux-howtos serial howto files. > > > > > > On Thu, 1 Jun 2017, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: > > > > > > > Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 14:03:36 > > > > From: Linux for blind general discussion > > > > To: Linux for blind general > > > > discussion Subject: Re: living in > > > > the console. > > > > > > > > I am not. > > > > since none of the Linux speech sources currently support my > > > > synthesizer, it is not like I can just buy a system. > > > > That means having one built and configured locally..something > > > > I did not think would be such an issue. I mean I do it > > > > regularly for DOS when I find a later edition of DOS that > > > > gives me something needful. My present dos package for > > > > example is only a few years old comparatively speaking, has > > > > full USB support, networking etc. However I have been trying > > > > to find local talent for the Linux side for more than a > > > > decade now, almost 15 years or so I imagine. > > > > User groups tend to have a laid back perspective if they can > > > > be found. clear, fundamental and step by step information in > > > > basic but informative detail does not exist, let alone in > > > > person training. > > > > > > > > I even had someone try to install Linux to a drive and send > > > > it, only not to have Linux support any of the hand picked > > > > hardware, or for that person to have included any way to > > > > reach the internet...I am serious. I would ssh telnet into > > > > the box just like I do for Shellworld which is now running > > > > Ubuntu 16.04, or my dreamhost setup for work which is not as > > > > current. I have no problem doing that at all, but the box > > > > must exist setup to my specifications, I intend using it for > > > > music making and media..which means in person real skill. > > > > long distance has simply produced amusing efforts with no > > > > progress. My favorite local effort was when someone building > > > > a machine for me showed up with a live disk prepared to > > > > introduce me to Linux. They popped in the cd and we > > > > waited...and waited...and waited lol! > > > > > > > > besides, I think speekup still puts all the controls on one > > > > side of the keyboard, not using the full thing, which for me > > > > personally is counter productive. > > > > My present screen readers, all of the ones on my machine > > > > actually, let me get information without ever taking my hands > > > > off the keys unless I need to review. > > > > Most important though since all software speech makes me > > > > dizzy is the need to keep the voice I have with whatever I am > > > > using. Long answer to as short comment, > > > > Kare > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 1 Jun 2017, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: > > > > > > > > > If you're in the market for a linux laptop, > > > > > http://www.thinkpenguin.com/ is one good source. > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 1 Jun 2017, Linux for blind general discussion > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2017 09:57:30 > > > > > > From: Linux for blind general discussion > > > > > > To: Linux for blind general > > > > > > discussion Subject: Re: living > > > > > > in the console. > > > > > > > > > > > > which is why I am going to find one on line somewhere. > > > > > > I have no actual Linux box myself. > > > > > > Kare > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 31 May 2017, Linux for blind general discussion > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh I think there is a file somewhere called setup.exe > > > > > > > or > > > > > > edbrowse-setup > or something like that. > > > > > > > Sorry it has been many years since I did the setup. > > > > > > > The readme file will tell you all about it. > > > > > > > > > On May 31, 2017, at 10:26 PM, Linux for blind > > > > > > > > > general > > > > > > discussion > wrote: > > > > > > > > Well it must require more because when I tried > > > > > > > > visiting > > > > > > paypal I just > got a series of numbers and a blank > > > > > > page. > > > > > > > Even trying for a help menu produced the question, are > > > > > > > you > > > > > > looking for > business solutions? > > > > > > > Granted we may not have it fully configured here at > > > > > > > shellworld. Will hunt some sort of manual and try again, > > > > > > > Kare > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 31 May 2017, Linux for blind general > > > > > > > > > > discussion wrote: If you mean to browse something > > > > > > > > > > just type: edbrowse url > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > edbrowse file > > > > > > > > > > Then you can use the same commands as ed. > > > > > > > > > > edbrowse is also an email reader/sender and other > > > > > > stuff. I love it. > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 30, 2017, at 5:08 PM, Linux for blind > > > > > > general discussion > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Out of curiosity, what is the syntax for ebrowse? > > > > > > > > We have it here at shellworld...I think, and I wish > > > > > > > > to test > > > > > > something. > > > > > > > > Karen > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 26 May 2017, Linux for blind > > > > > > > > > > > > > general > > > > > > discussion wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Edbrowse may help for web browsing alonggg > > > > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > surfraw-heavy. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from BlueMail for iPhone > > > > > > > > > On May 25, 2017 at 7:18 PM, Linux for blind general > > > > > > discussion > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim here > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark Peveto wrote > > > > > > > > > Over the last couple days or so, I've considered > > > > > > > > > becoming a totally command line linux user. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm mostly there. Web browsing is the big > > > > > > > > > > > > hurdle > > > > > > for much of my > > > > > > > > > day-to-day use. Lynx/links/elinks work for many > > > > > > > > > things, but some sites just need a fully > > > > > > > > > modern-standards-supporting browser. > > > > > > > > > > > > How would I print to my printer for example, > > > > > > > > > > > > It depends on what you want to print, but it > > > > > > usually involves piping > > > > > > > > > things to the "lp" ("line printer") program. It > > > > > > > > > can be > > > > > > configured to > > > > > > > > > use CUPS on the back end (and may already be > > > > > > > > > configured out of the box for you). > > > > > > > > > > > > Getting fancier output would involve > > > > > > > > > > > > rendering some > > > > > > sort of markup. > > > > > > > > > There are tools to render HTML, LaTeX, PDFs, and > > > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > > > Word/LibreOffice > > > > > > > > > docs from the command-line to the printer. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what you want to print, but I > > > > > > > > > > > > suspect > > > > > > it can be done in > > > > > > > > > most cases. > > > > > > > > > > > > play an entire album from my music > > > > > > > > > > > > collection. It depends on your tastes, but > > > > > > > > > > > > there are literally > > > > > > dozens of music > > > > > > > > > players. Some, such as mpg123/mpg312/aplay/ogg123 > > > > > > > > > allow you to specify just the files you want on the > > > > > > > > > command line and > > > > > > it will play > > > > > > > > > them. Others, like mplayer are similar but give > > > > > > > > > you a little more control over playback. > > > > > > > > > > > > There's also mpd/mpc which is the Music > > > > > > > > > > > > Player > > > > > > Daemon/Client that > > > > > > > > > runs in the background and doesn't really have a > > > > > > > > > GUI. The mpd program runs in the background and the > > > > > > > > > mpc program acts like a remote-control, letting you > > > > > > > > > create/edit playlists, > > > > > > control playback, > > > > > > > > > etc. I like the remote-control aspect as I can map > > > > > > > > > them to particular keys on my keyboard or aliases > > > > > > > > > in the shell > > > > > > and have > > > quick > > > > > > > > > access to common commands with my media-keys. > > > > > > > > > > > > Personally, I use "cmus" which has a > > > > > > > > > > > > text-mode GUI > > > > > > but also has a > > > > > > > > > remote-control interface like mpd/mpc. I start up > > > > > > > > > tmux and have a pane for my alsamixer and cmus > > > > > > > > > which lets me flip between > > > > > > them > > > pretty > > > > > > > > > readily. It allows me to make play-lists, search > > > > > > > > > my collection, shuffle, etc, much like you'd be > > > > > > > > > familiar with in a > > > > > > graphical > > > player. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How, also, would I create documents in > > > > > > something beyond text > > > > > > > > > format? > > > > > > > > > > > > usually it's done with a markup that suits > > > > > > > > > > > > your > > > > > > tastes. I personally > > > > > > > > > have been writing HTML by hand since college in > > > > > > > > > the mid > > > > > > 90s so > > > that's > > > > > > > > > what I reach for. But other people like TeX/LaTeX > > > > > > > > > (it does produce some beautiful output and also has > > > > > > > > > external library > > > > > > support for > > > things > > > > > > > > > like music markup letting you write scores) while > > > > > > > > > other people like some of the more light-weight > > > > > > > > > markup languages like Markdown or RST or the like. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd kick the tires on a few and see what > > > > > > > > > > > > feels > > > > > > natural to you. > > > > > > > > > Fortunately, there's a tool called "pandoc" that > > > > > > > > > lets you convert between a large number of > > > > > > > > > input/output formats so you can write in Markdown > > > > > > > > > and convert to PDF, or write in HTML and convert > > > > > > to MS-Word > > > > > > > > > format, or write in LaTeX and convert to ePub with > > > > > > minimal loss. And > > > > > > > > > it outputs any of them in plain-text (though you > > > > > > > > > may lose some information in the process since > > > > > > > > > plain-text doesn't support many features as you've > > > > > > > > > acknowledged) > > > > > > > > > > > > How does one ditch the guy, and still enjoy > > > > > > > > > > > > all > > > > > > linux has to offer > > > > > > > > > in the console? > > > > > > > > > > > > One program at a time (grins). So much like > > > > > > > > > > > > each of > > > > > > the items above, > > > > > > > > > it's a matter of asking "I currently do XYZ in the > > > > > > > > > GUI > > > > > > but would > > > like > > > > > > > > > to do XYZ in the console" for whatever XYZ is your > > > > > > > > > next adventure. > > > > > > > > > > > > I maintain a page listing a number of common > > > > > > command-line tools: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://tim.thechases.com/posts/cli/software-for-a-command-line-world/ > > > > > > > > > > > > that can point you in the direction of > > > > > > > > > > > > various > > > > > > applications to try > > > > > > > > > out. Some might drive you crazy while others might > > > > > > > > > fit your brain just right. They should all be free > > > > > > > > > and are likely in most software repos, so it > > > > > > > > > doesn't cost you anything except a little time to > > > > > > > > > try each one out. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm willing to learn how to do this, but who > > > > > > > > > > > > ever > > > > > > decides to help > > > > > > > > > me is gonna hafta be patient. > > > > > > > > > > > > The folks on this list are a pretty friendly > > > > > > > > > > > > & > > > > > > patient bunch, so > > > > > > > > > we'll be glad to help where we can. > > > > > > > > > > > > -tim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > Blinux-list mailing list > > > > > > > > > Blinux-list@redhat.com > > > > > > > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > Blinux-list mailing list > > > > > > > > > Blinux-list@redhat.com > > > > > > > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Blinux-list mailing list > > > > > > > > Blinux-list@redhat.com > > > > > > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Blinux-list mailing list > > > > > > > > Blinux-list@redhat.com > > > > > > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > Blinux-list mailing list > > > > > > > Blinux-list@redhat.com > > > > > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > Blinux-list mailing list > > > > > > > Blinux-list@redhat.com > > > > > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Blinux-list mailing list > > > > > > Blinux-list@redhat.com > > > > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Blinux-list mailing list > > > > > Blinux-list@redhat.com > > > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Blinux-list mailing list > > > > Blinux-list@redhat.com > > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Blinux-list mailing list > > > Blinux-list@redhat.com > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > > -- > > Rudy Vener > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Blinux-list mailing list > > Blinux-list@redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > Blinux-list mailing list > Blinux-list@redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list