From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Received: from int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (int-mx1.corp.redhat.com [172.16.52.254]) by listman.back-rdu.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id hA4GZ7H08357 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:35:07 -0500 Received: (from mail@localhost) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id hA4GeXp01382 for blinux-list@listman.back-rdu.redhat.com; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:40:33 -0500 Received: from mx1.redhat.com (mx1.redhat.com [172.16.48.31]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id hA4GeX601378 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:40:33 -0500 Received: from sugarbeet.ultimanet.com (sugarbeet.ultimanet.com [65.119.104.9]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id hA4GeVM18897 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:40:32 -0500 Received: (from garywynn@localhost) by sugarbeet.ultimanet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA21911 for blinux-list@redhat.com; Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:06:23 -0800 From: Gary Wynn Message-Id: <200311041706.JAA21911@sugarbeet.ultimanet.com> Subject: up-to-date text-based browser? To: blinux-list@redhat.com (Blinux) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 09:06:22 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL3] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Loop: blinux-list@redhat.com Sender: blinux-list-admin@redhat.com Errors-To: blinux-list-admin@redhat.com X-BeenThere: blinux-list@redhat.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13 Precedence: junk Reply-To: blinux-list@redhat.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Linux for blind general discussion List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Thank you Cheryl, for having the courage to state your experiences clearly and in sufficient detail to help many persons who are blind, and hoping to use linux for access. Too often, the kind of information you gave is not available, or suppressed. It is vital for the health of linux development that frustrations and shortcomings be equally well expressed. A problem not acknowledged is not likely to be addressed. In terms of "marketing" linux or recruiting persons who are blind into using linux, a forthright admission of the problems as well as the advantages is critical. If persons are drawn to linux, and find they invested valuable time and effort with a diminished return, they are often lost to linux for a long time after the experience. The Blinux FAQ does well at spelling out the advantages and opportunities of linux to a person who is blind, but it cannot be everything in one document. Additional individual experiences with linux are so valuable at a people-to-people level for making a good decision. Because so many on this list work with linux exclusively, they may not have access to alternative information that could assist development of better tools. One fact is that websites are often hostile and difficult to use, even for non disabled persons using M$ products. My wife is a computer user of 20 years experience, and a GUI user for more than 15 years. She finds many websites extremely difficult to use with M$ "Exploiter", simply because they are apparently not designed well for human use. It is doubtful that any development of a linux tool, no matter with what genius, can correct the deficiencies of poor design on the part of the website creators. The final point is, that linux is a tool, and it should certainly make sense to anyone who cooks, that not every tool can solve every problem. It may just be, that for many people linux is excellent for email, as it protects well against viruses and spam, but is less adequate for web browsing, accessing music on the net, or for handling personal information. One should *always* be open to using the tools that individually, work best for oneself. A word to the developers of linux tools--the elk are only as healthy as the wolves in the area. Every linux developer *NEEDS* some very predatory consumers who will rip apart any creation with ferocity and persistence. There is simply no way for linux to improve without open expression of consumer experiences--including frustrations with its performance. That function *should* be regarded as a valuable service. M$ pays people to get far less useful information. As a human factors designer myself, I know that I can never make an improvement in any human interface without an articulate human being who will take the time to work with an interface as thoroughly as Cheryl shows she does, and express those experiences as well as Cheryl can. With that kind of data, one can understand the best direction and priority for further effort. It is completely natural for the elk to drive away the wolves, as being torn apart is no fun, but if the elk are too successful, they sicken and die, and ultimately destroy themselves. Too many fine people have expressed views on this list like those of Cheryl, and have been flamed--and never returned. Linux is only as healthy an operating system as the creators ability to accept criticism and absorb user experiences into the design of future contributions. We all want linux to succeed, or we would not be on this list. The health of this list requires we maintain as balanced a perspective as we can--we welcome the wolves to the list as thoroughly as we do to Yellowstone, and hope for a similar result.