spam

spam

[John]

I'm sure everyone here recently got email with the subject, "Tourism Program 
For The Blind."

I am certain your email address has been "harvested" by some unprincipalled 
"marketing gurus," and sold to suckers. Probably, from the web archives as 
that is easier than enrolling in lots of lists. As you can see from 
https://listman.redhat.com/pipermail/blinux-list/2002-August/000638.html 
email addresses are in plain view.

I'm convinced my email address was harvested from _this_ list because nobody 
else would think me blind.

Mailman, the software used to administer this list, can obfuscate email 
addresses.

I'm sending this to the list and to its administrator. I imagine spam is an 
even worse problem for most of the people than for those who can see.

Hopefully, the administrator will take action promptly.

A useful counter-spam idea I have come up with is a free email address at 
Yahoo or similar. They have facilities for filtering email, and you can 
decline email that's not from an approved source. I've used such an address 
to subscribe to a Red Hat list and it was entirely free of spam.

A reason to prefer Yahoo is that you can use fetchmail (or any other POP3 
client) to retrieve the email and so it becomes as convenient as the email 
address your ISP provides.

I think Yahoo is charging for this facility in some domains now, but even so 
it remains an option worth considering.



-- 


Cheers
John.

Please, no off-list mail. You will fall foul of my spam treatment.
Join the "Linux Support by Small Businesses" list at 
http://mail.computerdatasafe.com.au/mailman/listinfo/lssb

Re: spam

[Janina Sajka]

Oh, for heaven's sake. Why would it be worse for a blind person to get 
spam? And, why would the arcane and obnoxious yahoo type interfaces be 
easier. Spare us.
 On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, John wrote:

> I'm sure everyone here recently got email with the subject, "Tourism Program 
> For The Blind."
> 
> I am certain your email address has been "harvested" by some unprincipalled 
> "marketing gurus," and sold to suckers. Probably, from the web archives as 
> that is easier than enrolling in lots of lists. As you can see from 
> https://listman.redhat.com/pipermail/blinux-list/2002-August/000638.html 
> email addresses are in plain view.
> 
> I'm convinced my email address was harvested from _this_ list because nobody 
> else would think me blind.
> 
> Mailman, the software used to administer this list, can obfuscate email 
> addresses.
> 
> I'm sending this to the list and to its administrator. I imagine spam is an 
> even worse problem for most of the people than for those who can see.
> 
> Hopefully, the administrator will take action promptly.
> 
> A useful counter-spam idea I have come up with is a free email address at 
> Yahoo or similar. They have facilities for filtering email, and you can 
> decline email that's not from an approved source. I've used such an address 
> to subscribe to a Red Hat list and it was entirely free of spam.
> 
> A reason to prefer Yahoo is that you can use fetchmail (or any other POP3 
> client) to retrieve the email and so it becomes as convenient as the email 
> address your ISP provides.
> 
> I think Yahoo is charging for this facility in some domains now, but even so 
> it remains an option worth considering.
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: spam

[John]

On Tuesday 20 August 2002 11:28, Janina Sajka wrote:
> Oh, for heaven's sake. Why would it be worse for a blind person to get 
> spam? And, why would the arcane and obnoxious yahoo type interfaces be 
> easier. Spare us.

I suspect you have to "read" more of the email to discover how little its 
value is.

And the point of Yahoo in particular is you only have to face it once to get 
your account. From then you use fetchmail or your usual POP3 client and don't 
see the Yahoo site.

Oh, you do need to visit in order to revise your filters.
 

-- 


Cheers
John.

Please, no off-list mail. You will fall foul of my spam treatment.
Join the "Linux Support by Small Businesses" list at 
http://mail.computerdatasafe.com.au/mailman/listinfo/lssb

Re: spam

[Shaun Oliver]

*SNOP*
Oh, for heaven's sake. Why would it be worse for a blind person to get
spam? And, why would the arcane and obnoxious yahoo type interfaces be
easier. Spare us.
HERE HERE! for those of us that know enough to get by on linux,
what the bloody hell's wrong with creating a procmail recipe? all it takes
is a bit of rtfm and knowing what you want the thing to do once you've got
hold of the addresses you want to filter out. for gods sakes quit bitching
and fix it yourself!


-- 
Shaun Oliver


In a world without fences
          and walls who needs Windows and Gates?

EMAIL: shaun_oliver@optusnet.com.au
ICQ: 76958435

Re: spam

[Hans Zoebelein]

The original poster of that advertising was reminded about the topics of
blinux-list. 

BTW: Looking at the daily volume of spam which hits mailboxes,
blinux-list is a (nearly) spam free place. Now there is a great tool
available to filter spam messages and stopping them from shining up 
in your mail box.

Get ifile, a general mail filtering system which uses a learning
algorithm at http://www.ai.mit.edu/~jrennie/ifile/

And get ifile.procmail at 
http://xtrmntr.org/ORBman/ifile.procmail.html
ifile.procmail needs procmail installed.

Ifile can be trained to find out which mail should be considered spam.
If you need spam samples, you can get them from
http://www.annexia.org/spam/files/

Enjoy!
--Hans
(maintainer blinux-lists)

On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, John wrote:

> I'm sure everyone here recently got email with the subject, "Tourism Program 
> For The Blind."
> 
> I am certain your email address has been "harvested" by some unprincipalled 
> "marketing gurus," and sold to suckers. Probably, from the web archives as 
> that is easier than enrolling in lots of lists. As you can see from 
> https://listman.redhat.com/pipermail/blinux-list/2002-August/000638.html 
> email addresses are in plain view.
> 
> I'm convinced my email address was harvested from _this_ list because nobody 
> else would think me blind.
> 
> Mailman, the software used to administer this list, can obfuscate email 
> addresses.
> 
> I'm sending this to the list and to its administrator. I imagine spam is an 
> even worse problem for most of the people than for those who can see.
> 
> Hopefully, the administrator will take action promptly.

Re: spam

[Luke Davis]

You also need to pay yahoo, for POP access.

On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, John wrote:

> On Tuesday 20 August 2002 11:28, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > Oh, for heaven's sake. Why would it be worse for a blind person to get
> > spam? And, why would the arcane and obnoxious yahoo type interfaces be
> > easier. Spare us.
>
> I suspect you have to "read" more of the email to discover how little its
> value is.
>
> And the point of Yahoo in particular is you only have to face it once to get
> your account. From then you use fetchmail or your usual POP3 client and don't
> see the Yahoo site.
>
> Oh, you do need to visit in order to revise your filters.
>
>
>

Re: spam

[A. R. Vener]

You can make your own spam filter by using procmail as your
delivery agent.
Far more flexible and cheaper than Yahoo.

rudy

Re: spam

[Octavian Rasnita]

Or use a Perl script that should fetch the mail from Yahoo like when using
POP3.

Teddy's Center: http://teddy.fcc.ro/
Mail: orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Luke Davis" <ldavis@shellworld.net>
To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 12:29 AM
Subject: Re: spam


> You also need to pay yahoo, for POP access.
>
> On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, John wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday 20 August 2002 11:28, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > Oh, for heaven's sake. Why would it be worse for a blind person to get
> > > spam? And, why would the arcane and obnoxious yahoo type interfaces be
> > > easier. Spare us.
> >
> > I suspect you have to "read" more of the email to discover how little
its
> > value is.
> >
> > And the point of Yahoo in particular is you only have to face it once to
get
> > your account. From then you use fetchmail or your usual POP3 client and
don't
> > see the Yahoo site.
> >
> > Oh, you do need to visit in order to revise your filters.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>

Re: spam

[John]

On Wednesday 21 August 2002 05:29, Luke Davis wrote:
> You also need to pay yahoo, for POP access.

As I said before, that depends on the domain you're in. I have Yahoo accounts, 
I use POP3 and I don't pay.

 

-- 


Cheers
John.

Please, no off-list mail. You will fall foul of my spam treatment.
Join the "Linux Support by Small Businesses" list at 
http://mail.computerdatasafe.com.au/mailman/listinfo/lssb

Re: spam

[John]

Some people are awfully touchy. I don't mind helping, but no reason I should 
be asked to put up with this rudeness.

I expect spam is worse for the blind simply because I reckon I can read faster 
than you can. If I'm wrong, fine, but your little outburst doesn't help 
anyone. I can look at a list and spot the likely spam without conciously 
reading it.

And sure you can use procmail filters. I don't reckon my mother can though. 
I've used procmail filters for years, I've got quite a considerable 
collection of procmail filters. At best, I reckon they catch about half the 
spam.

In contrast, an email address that only accepts email from a limited number of 
addresses is quite difficult to spam. Unless you can create your own accounts 
at will on your own computer, then the only way you can have such an account 
is to buy one or use a free one.

Hotmail accounts aren't very good, I know places that unconditionally drop all 
mail from hotmail.com.

On Tuesday 20 August 2002 17:53, Shaun Oliver wrote:
> h, for heaven's sake. Why would it be worse for a blind person to get
> spam?




-- 


Cheers
John.

Please, no off-list mail. You will fall foul of my spam treatment.
Join the "Linux Support by Small Businesses" list at 
http://mail.computerdatasafe.com.au/mailman/listinfo/lssb

Re: spam

[John]

On Tuesday 20 August 2002 21:48, Hans Zoebelein wrote:
> The original poster of that advertising was reminded about the topics of
> blinux-list. 

The copies I got were addressed to me, not to the list. They came from an open 
relay - I checked. reminding the poster did no more than confirm your email 
address works.


-- 


Cheers
John.

Please, no off-list mail. You will fall foul of my spam treatment.
Join the "Linux Support by Small Businesses" list at 
http://mail.computerdatasafe.com.au/mailman/listinfo/lssb

Re: spam

[Octavian Rasnita]

Sorry. I see that this is a fighting thread, but I am curious.
How many spam messages do you receive monthly?
I am trying to calculate how many MB means that and how much time will take
you to delete them manually without having any filter.

I am interested in general, not only in your experience.

Thanks.

Teddy's Center: http://teddy.fcc.ro/
Mail: orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <valhalla@computerdatasafe.com.au>
To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: spam


> Some people are awfully touchy. I don't mind helping, but no reason I
should
> be asked to put up with this rudeness.
>
> I expect spam is worse for the blind simply because I reckon I can read
faster
> than you can. If I'm wrong, fine, but your little outburst doesn't help
> anyone. I can look at a list and spot the likely spam without conciously
> reading it.
>
> And sure you can use procmail filters. I don't reckon my mother can
though.
> I've used procmail filters for years, I've got quite a considerable
> collection of procmail filters. At best, I reckon they catch about half
the
> spam.
>
> In contrast, an email address that only accepts email from a limited
number of
> addresses is quite difficult to spam. Unless you can create your own
accounts
> at will on your own computer, then the only way you can have such an
account
> is to buy one or use a free one.
>
> Hotmail accounts aren't very good, I know places that unconditionally drop
all
> mail from hotmail.com.
>
> On Tuesday 20 August 2002 17:53, Shaun Oliver wrote:
> > h, for heaven's sake. Why would it be worse for a blind person to get
> > spam?
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> Cheers
> John.
>
> Please, no off-list mail. You will fall foul of my spam treatment.
> Join the "Linux Support by Small Businesses" list at
> http://mail.computerdatasafe.com.au/mailman/listinfo/lssb
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>

Re: spam

[Jude DaShiell]

Base literacy rate for sighted people is 350 words per minute without
speed reading techniques being employed.  Base literacy reading rate for
blind people reading braille is 100 words per minute, normal speech runs
at 180 words per minute and writing speeds are lots slower.  Those are the
official benchmarks used at Arkansas Enterprises For The Blind
pre-vocational program; I know, I went there, did that, got the computer
training certificate to prove it too.  So I would be really surprised if
John couldn't read that fast and faster.  That's why I stayed out of the
middle of this until now but figure to put some official figures on the
list for the education of those that need it.

x

Re: spam

[John]

On Wednesday 21 August 2002 23:54, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

I've recently changed domains and my previous email addresses no longer work. 
I don't know how many, maybe a dozen a day. I trashed a good deal of email 
unread with my procmail filters. Some may have been legitimately addressed to 
me.



> Sorry. I see that this is a fighting thread, but I am curious.
> How many spam messages do you receive monthly?
> I am trying to calculate how many MB means that and how much time will take
> you to delete them manually without having any filter.

I can delete them faster for not having to have their subjects read out to me, 
of that I am sure.


-- 


Cheers
John.

Please, no off-list mail. You will fall foul of my spam treatment.
Join the "Linux Support by Small Businesses" list at 
http://mail.computerdatasafe.com.au/mailman/listinfo/lssb

Re: spam

[Luke Davis]

Yahoo charges for POP3 access now, I believe.  So unless you want to parse
the entire web site, no going.

On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:

> Or use a Perl script that should fetch the mail from Yahoo like when using
> POP3.
>
> Teddy's Center: http://teddy.fcc.ro/
> Mail: orasnita@home.ro
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Luke Davis" <ldavis@shellworld.net>
> To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 12:29 AM
> Subject: Re: spam
>
>
> > You also need to pay yahoo, for POP access.
> >
> > On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, John wrote:
> >
> > > On Tuesday 20 August 2002 11:28, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > Oh, for heaven's sake. Why would it be worse for a blind person to get
> > > > spam? And, why would the arcane and obnoxious yahoo type interfaces be
> > > > easier. Spare us.
> > >
> > > I suspect you have to "read" more of the email to discover how little
> its
> > > value is.
> > >
> > > And the point of Yahoo in particular is you only have to face it once to
> get
> > > your account. From then you use fetchmail or your usual POP3 client and
> don't
> > > see the Yahoo site.
> > >
> > > Oh, you do need to visit in order to revise your filters.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blinux-list mailing list
> > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>

Re: spam

[Octavian Rasnita]

I have a Perl script that fetches the email from Yahoo, delete the messages
from the server after that and store them in a local file.
It is a Perl program. It works under Windows and I am sure it works under
Linux.

For Windows there are more other programs that will do that.

Teddy's Center: http://teddy.fcc.ro/
Mail: orasnita@home.ro

----- Original Message -----
From: "Luke Davis" <ldavis@shellworld.net>
To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 11:57 PM
Subject: Re: spam


> Yahoo charges for POP3 access now, I believe.  So unless you want to parse
> the entire web site, no going.
>
> On Wed, 21 Aug 2002, Octavian Rasnita wrote:
>
> > Or use a Perl script that should fetch the mail from Yahoo like when
using
> > POP3.
> >
> > Teddy's Center: http://teddy.fcc.ro/
> > Mail: orasnita@home.ro
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Luke Davis" <ldavis@shellworld.net>
> > To: <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 12:29 AM
> > Subject: Re: spam
> >
> >
> > > You also need to pay yahoo, for POP access.
> > >
> > > On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, John wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Tuesday 20 August 2002 11:28, Janina Sajka wrote:
> > > > > Oh, for heaven's sake. Why would it be worse for a blind person to
get
> > > > > spam? And, why would the arcane and obnoxious yahoo type
interfaces be
> > > > > easier. Spare us.
> > > >
> > > > I suspect you have to "read" more of the email to discover how
little
> > its
> > > > value is.
> > > >
> > > > And the point of Yahoo in particular is you only have to face it
once to
> > get
> > > > your account. From then you use fetchmail or your usual POP3 client
and
> > don't
> > > > see the Yahoo site.
> > > >
> > > > Oh, you do need to visit in order to revise your filters.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Blinux-list mailing list
> > > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blinux-list mailing list
> > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> >
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>

Re: spam

[John]

On Friday 23 August 2002 04:57, Luke Davis wrote:
> Yahoo charges for POP3 access now, I believe.  So unless you want to parse
> the entire web site, no going.

I repeat, it depends on which domain you use. I get mail from Yahoo using POP3 
and I do not pay for it.


That aside, there's a sourceforge project for a Yahoo reader. Don't recall 
its, name, something arcane.

-- 


Cheers
John.

Please, no off-list mail. You will fall foul of my spam treatment.
Join the "Linux Support by Small Businesses" list at 
http://mail.computerdatasafe.com.au/mailman/listinfo/lssb

Re: spam

[John]

Thanks Jude. That's roughly what I expected, and it's why I expect spam to be 
worse for most of you folk.

On Thursday 22 August 2002 12:05, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> put some official figures

-- 


Cheers
John.

Please, no off-list mail. You will fall foul of my spam treatment.
Join the "Linux Support by Small Businesses" list at 
http://mail.computerdatasafe.com.au/mailman/listinfo/lssb

Re: spam

[Mike Gorse]

But how many people listen to their synths at 180 wpm?  I know I don't.

On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Jude DaShiell wrote:

> Base literacy rate for sighted people is 350 words per minute without
> speed reading techniques being employed.  Base literacy reading rate for
> blind people reading braille is 100 words per minute, normal speech runs
> at 180 words per minute and writing speeds are lots slower.  Those are the
> official benchmarks used at Arkansas Enterprises For The Blind
> pre-vocational program; I know, I went there, did that, got the computer
> training certificate to prove it too.  So I would be really surprised if
> John couldn't read that fast and faster.  That's why I stayed out of the
> middle of this until now but figure to put some official figures on the
> list for the education of those that need it.
>

re: Spam

[Weber Walter M]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 751 bytes --]

For those who read braille at around 100 words a minute, I thought I'd share
a reading technique I learned from another braille reader who read at a rate
of over 260 words per minute.

   Instead of reading across the entire line of braille with both hands,
read the left hand half with the left hand only, then, pick up the right
half of the line with the right hand only while the left drops down and goes
back to the beginning of that line. And, naturally enough, as the left hand
reads, drop the right hand down to that line and bring it over to the left
to meet the left hand at the halfway mark. 

   It's a little awkward at first, but practice and it will become natural
and speedy.

Walt


M:I:SD:SP:D:BA		
NCFB A5 445
(202) 283-3696


					

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