Getting to the internet

Getting to the internet

[Weber Walter M]

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Hi Gil,

   Wow! it looks like there's enough reading on the sites you mentioned to
fill my spare time until I get that PC.

   Thanks for taking the time to not only answer the questions I intended to
ask but those which I did not intend by my misspelling of Linux. I couldn't
believe I misspelled it throughout my note, until I read it for myself.

   One more small question: when I search for an ISP which will accept Linux
users, am I asking for a "shell account" or something else?

   And, again, thanks for your information.

Walt


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Re: Getting to the internet

[Gil Andre]

Hi Walter,

On Thu, 23 May 2002 09:38:24 -0400, Weber wrote:
> Hi Gil,
> 
>    Wow! it looks like there's enough reading on the sites you mentioned to
> fill my spare time until I get that PC.

Yes, there is a lot of documentation to read on Linux...
<grin>. That's one of the good sides of Linux and other
"free" systems: whatever your problem, you can be sure
there is someone else who has exactly the same problem
and who has found a way to work around it...

If you'd like even *more* information, you can also
read the "man" (Manual) pages of the Linux system 
online. You can do this from the excellent online
"man" system of FreeBSD, at the following address:

http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/man.cgi?manpath=linux

>    Thanks for taking the time [...]

You are welcome!

>    One more small question: when I search for an ISP which will accept Linux
> users, am I asking for a "shell account" or something else?

Well, as far as I know, not a lot of ISPs offer shell
accounts anymore. Those that do offer shell accounts
usually restrict very severely the number of programs
you have access to (lynx/pine and that's about it).

Since your needs may not always be solved by the type
of programs offered by the ISP, I think it's probably
better to search for an ISP that accepts Linux users
and provides good configuration instructions. Once the
connection have been successfully, you are then free
to use the software of your choice, not the one that
was selected by the ISP.

Plus, having a shell account means, basically, that 
all your files and software resides on the ISP server
and not on your own computer. While this may be the
best solution in some cases, it can be severely 
limiting, especially if you are trying to learn Linux.

Shell accounts, for all I know, are a step back to
the "good old times", when the only way to access a
computer was through a terminal. What's the point of
buying a "real" PC to use as some sort of glorified
terminal? <grin>

Hope this helps!

Best Regards,

-- 

Gil Andre          gandre@arkeia.com
         Technical Writer
Arkeia Corp.   http://www.arkeia.com

Re: Getting to the internet

[Kenny Hitt]

Hi.  I don't know what it is like in your area, but here in Huntsville,
AL there aren't any isps who will support Linux.  Most of the time, this
isn't a problem.  you can search on google for information from
other Linux users who have found solutions to using the isp.
In my case, I currently use Comcast.  There cable modems use DHCP and
require your DHCP client to send a specific host identifier. This isn't
a problem.  Also, there web sight requires using inter net explorer.  Because I don't use
Windows, I can't use there web sight, but I have no other problems with
connecting to the inter net or using email.

         Kenny
	 
On Thu, May 23, 2002 at 09:38:24AM -0400, Weber Walter M wrote:
> Hi Gil,
> 
>    Wow! it looks like there's enough reading on the sites you mentioned to
> fill my spare time until I get that PC.
> 
>    Thanks for taking the time to not only answer the questions I intended to
> ask but those which I did not intend by my misspelling of Linux. I couldn't
> believe I misspelled it throughout my note, until I read it for myself.
> 
>    One more small question: when I search for an ISP which will accept Linux
> users, am I asking for a "shell account" or something else?
> 
>    And, again, thanks for your information.
> 
> Walt
> 

Re: Getting to the internet

[Gil Andre]

Charles,

On Sat, 25 May 2002 05:48:37 -0500, charles wrote:
> hi listers, ok I have a question here. I don't understand why isps wouldn't 
> alow linux use.  after regardless of what os we use arn't they just a 
> passthrew to the net. I don't understand?
> thanks alot

Really, really really quick answer: Most ISPs suck.
<grin>

Really quick answer: Windows = +/- 98% of all PC. Why
support an OS that only interests 2% of all possible
clients?

Quick answer: they don't want to support Linux, because
Linux, being more advanced than Windows, is harder to
support and requires better-trained (read: better-paid)
tech support personnel.

Long answer: It's a question of economies of scale. And
control. Windows is the most prevalent OS, some even say
it is the "standard" operating system for PCs. Therefore,
this system is well-known, it is pretty well maintained,
and you can find hundreds of people who know it well
enough to be able to help clueless clients.

Since it's well known, it's also possible to work around
its quirks and bugs. Since it is a "standard", this means
your clients will always be able to find adequate software
to do most anything on the Internet.

Finally, a lot of software is available to limit the
bandwidth usage of each and every client. This is very
useful, especially for high-speed ISPs, who don't want
to have clients who network 16 computers and put them
all on the Internet using a single cable/DSL line.

All in all, it all comes down to this: if your ISP
supports Macintosh, Linux, BSD, Windows, whatever,
you can say that it's a little bit above the rest.
If it's a Windows-onl shop, it sucks. Period. To be
able to support multiple OS is a sure sign of technical
knowledge. Then there is the quality of service which
is offered to the clients, but that's another story...
<grin>

Regards,


-- 

Gil Andre          gandre@arkeia.com
         Technical Writer
Arkeia Corp.   http://www.arkeia.com

Re: Getting to the internet

[cbowman]

hi, ok I understand what you mean here. thanks alot.
charles

On 2002-05-25 blinux-list@redhat.com said:
   >ISPs do not care.  In most cases they don't even know what is
   >connected to the access channels they provide.
   >On the other hand an ISP can say whatever it wants. So if it says
   >they only support Windows then do not bother calling them up with
   >questions about Linux or Macs or Amigas or DOS, because in all
   >probability, all their service desk people know is the Windows
   >configurations.
   >The cable and DSL providers want their modems to be connected to a
   >Windows PC because they get to charge $49 for each such connection.
   >But nothing prevents you from hooking up a D-link router to that
   >cable or dsl modem and then connecting two or three Linux machines
   >to the  router.
   >But don't expect the ISP to be able or willing to help you do it.
   >If you plan to hook anything other than a Windows PC to your
   >internet channel you will need to either learn the basics on your
   >own or get third party technical help.
   >Perhaps this may change someday, but for now it is the reality.
   >Rudy
   >On Sat, May 25, 2002 at 05:48:37AM -0500, charles bowman wrote:
   >> hi listers, ok I have a question here. I don't understand why
   >>isps wouldn't  alow linux use.  after regardless of what os we use
   >>arn't they just a  passthrew to the net. I don't understand?
   >> thanks alot
   >> charlesAt 03:07 PM 5/23/02 +0200, you wrote:
   >> >Hi!
   >> >
   >> >On Thu, 23 May 2002 08:22:15 -0400, Weber wrote:
   >> > > Hi All,
   >> > >
   >> > >    I'm new to the list and while I'm a professional
   >>programmer working on a  > > mainframe, I am ignorant of Lynux and
   >>so forth (by the way, first, what is  > > the correct
   >>pronunciation of lynux, please?).  >
   >> >Well...
   >> >
   >> >First of all, it's "Linux" and not "Lynux". To pronounce
   >> >"Linux" correctly... This has been the subject of a huge
   >> >number of internet debates and religious wars. <grin>
   >> >
   >> >There used to be a small sound clip with Linus Torvalds,
   >> >the creator of Linux, saying the "Linux" word, but I
   >> >can't find it right now unfortunately...
   >> >
   >> > >    Next, I hope to purchase a personal-use PC next year,
   >>installing lynx on  > > it. I know my first decision will be to
   >>select which brand(?) of lynx to  > > use;
   >> >
   >> >I suppose you mean which brand of "Linux".
   >> >
   >> >Most users on this list use either Red Hat or Debian,
   >> >or Slackware. These are fairly well-know Linux "brands"
   >> >(we prefer the name "distribution") and they can be
   >> >found at:
   >> >
   >> >http://www.redhat.com
   >> >http://www.debian.org
   >> >http://www.slackware.com
   >> >
   >> >One very, very helpful site you may want to access is
   >> >the Linux Documentation Project, which has hundreds of
   >> >manuals covering all aspects of Linux. It can be found
   >> >on the Internet at the following address:
   >> >
   >> >http://www.linuxdoc.org
   >> >
   >> >If you are just talking about the program "lynx", which is
   >> >a web browser, you can have more information about it on
   >> >its web site, which is:
   >> >
   >> >http://lynx.browser.org
   >> >
   >> > > but, looking ahead beyond that point, I'm wondering how
   >> > > would I connect to the internet.
   >> >
   >> >Fairly simple. Please read on.
   >> >
   >> > > Would it be a matter of finding an ISP which accepts lynx
   >> > > users and simply using its browser?
   >> >
   >> >Yes. Now, finding an ISP that accept Linux users may be
   >> >difficult in your area, but nothing is impossible.
   >> >
   >> > >    And, also, I know web sites are accessed by domain names
   >>but how would a  > > lynux user access the same site? or can you?
   >>would I use an IP address  > > instead?
   >> >
   >> >No: any "correct" web browser will accept both a domain
   >> >name and an IP address. For instance, if you want to
   >> >access the web site for ACME Corporation, you can enter:
   >> >
   >> >http://www.acme.com
   >> >
   >> >or (IP equivalent):
   >> >
   >> >http://205.158.174.203
   >> >
   >> >This will work under lynx, if this was the meaning of
   >> >your question.
   >> >
   >> >Linux is an advanced operating system, and most of the
   >> >software you use under Linux is able to DNS/rDNS both
   >> >a domain name and a TCP/IP address in a transparent
   >> >manner. So, you don't have to use IP addresses unless
   >> >you really want to!
   >> >
   >> >Hope this helps!
   >> >
   >> >Best Regards,
   >> >
   >> >--
   >> >
   >> >Gil Andre          gandre@arkeia.com
   >> >          Technical Writer
   >> >Arkeia Corp.   http://www.arkeia.com
   >> >
   >> >
   >> >
   >> >_______________________________________________
   >> >Blinux-list mailing list
   >> >Blinux-list@redhat.com
   >> >https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
   >> _______________________________________________
   >> Blinux-list mailing list
   >> Blinux-list@redhat.com
   >> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
   >_______________________________________________
   >Blinux-list mailing list
   >Blinux-list@redhat.com
   >https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list

Net-Tamer V 1.11 - Test Drive

Re: Getting to the internet

[A. R. Vener]

ISPs do not care.  In most cases they don't even know what is connected
to the access channels they provide.
On the other hand an ISP can say whatever it wants. So if it says they
only support Windows then do not bother calling them up with questions about
Linux or Macs or Amigas or DOS, because in all probability, all their service
desk people know is the Windows configurations.

The cable and DSL providers want their modems to be connected to a Windows PC 
because they get to charge $49 for each such connection. But nothing
prevents you from hooking up a D-link router to that cable or dsl modem and
then connecting two or three Linux machines to the  router.

But don't expect the ISP to be able or willing to help you do it.
If you plan to hook anything other than a Windows PC to your internet channel
you will need to either learn the basics on your own or get third party technical
help. 

Perhaps this may change someday, but for now it is the reality.


Rudy



On Sat, May 25, 2002 at 05:48:37AM -0500, charles bowman wrote:
> hi listers, ok I have a question here. I don't understand why isps wouldn't 
> alow linux use.  after regardless of what os we use arn't they just a 
> passthrew to the net. I don't understand?
> thanks alot
> charlesAt 03:07 PM 5/23/02 +0200, you wrote:
> 
> >Hi!
> >
> >On Thu, 23 May 2002 08:22:15 -0400, Weber wrote:
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > >    I'm new to the list and while I'm a professional programmer working on a
> > > mainframe, I am ignorant of Lynux and so forth (by the way, first, what is
> > > the correct pronunciation of lynux, please?).
> >
> >Well...
> >
> >First of all, it's "Linux" and not "Lynux". To pronounce
> >"Linux" correctly... This has been the subject of a huge
> >number of internet debates and religious wars. <grin>
> >
> >There used to be a small sound clip with Linus Torvalds,
> >the creator of Linux, saying the "Linux" word, but I
> >can't find it right now unfortunately...
> >
> > >    Next, I hope to purchase a personal-use PC next year, installing lynx on
> > > it. I know my first decision will be to select which brand(?) of lynx to
> > > use;
> >
> >I suppose you mean which brand of "Linux".
> >
> >Most users on this list use either Red Hat or Debian,
> >or Slackware. These are fairly well-know Linux "brands"
> >(we prefer the name "distribution") and they can be
> >found at:
> >
> >http://www.redhat.com
> >http://www.debian.org
> >http://www.slackware.com
> >
> >One very, very helpful site you may want to access is
> >the Linux Documentation Project, which has hundreds of
> >manuals covering all aspects of Linux. It can be found
> >on the Internet at the following address:
> >
> >http://www.linuxdoc.org
> >
> >If you are just talking about the program "lynx", which is
> >a web browser, you can have more information about it on
> >its web site, which is:
> >
> >http://lynx.browser.org
> >
> > > but, looking ahead beyond that point, I'm wondering how
> > > would I connect to the internet.
> >
> >Fairly simple. Please read on.
> >
> > > Would it be a matter of finding an ISP which accepts lynx
> > > users and simply using its browser?
> >
> >Yes. Now, finding an ISP that accept Linux users may be
> >difficult in your area, but nothing is impossible.
> >
> > >    And, also, I know web sites are accessed by domain names but how would a
> > > lynux user access the same site? or can you? would I use an IP address
> > > instead?
> >
> >No: any "correct" web browser will accept both a domain
> >name and an IP address. For instance, if you want to
> >access the web site for ACME Corporation, you can enter:
> >
> >http://www.acme.com
> >
> >or (IP equivalent):
> >
> >http://205.158.174.203
> >
> >This will work under lynx, if this was the meaning of
> >your question.
> >
> >Linux is an advanced operating system, and most of the
> >software you use under Linux is able to DNS/rDNS both
> >a domain name and a TCP/IP address in a transparent
> >manner. So, you don't have to use IP addresses unless
> >you really want to!
> >
> >Hope this helps!
> >
> >Best Regards,
> >
> >--
> >
> >Gil Andre          gandre@arkeia.com
> >          Technical Writer
> >Arkeia Corp.   http://www.arkeia.com
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Blinux-list mailing list
> >Blinux-list@redhat.com
> >https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list

Re: Getting to the internet

[charles bowman]

hi listers, ok I have a question here. I don't understand why isps wouldn't 
alow linux use.  after regardless of what os we use arn't they just a 
passthrew to the net. I don't understand?
thanks alot
charlesAt 03:07 PM 5/23/02 +0200, you wrote:

>Hi!
>
>On Thu, 23 May 2002 08:22:15 -0400, Weber wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> >    I'm new to the list and while I'm a professional programmer working on a
> > mainframe, I am ignorant of Lynux and so forth (by the way, first, what is
> > the correct pronunciation of lynux, please?).
>
>Well...
>
>First of all, it's "Linux" and not "Lynux". To pronounce
>"Linux" correctly... This has been the subject of a huge
>number of internet debates and religious wars. <grin>
>
>There used to be a small sound clip with Linus Torvalds,
>the creator of Linux, saying the "Linux" word, but I
>can't find it right now unfortunately...
>
> >    Next, I hope to purchase a personal-use PC next year, installing lynx on
> > it. I know my first decision will be to select which brand(?) of lynx to
> > use;
>
>I suppose you mean which brand of "Linux".
>
>Most users on this list use either Red Hat or Debian,
>or Slackware. These are fairly well-know Linux "brands"
>(we prefer the name "distribution") and they can be
>found at:
>
>http://www.redhat.com
>http://www.debian.org
>http://www.slackware.com
>
>One very, very helpful site you may want to access is
>the Linux Documentation Project, which has hundreds of
>manuals covering all aspects of Linux. It can be found
>on the Internet at the following address:
>
>http://www.linuxdoc.org
>
>If you are just talking about the program "lynx", which is
>a web browser, you can have more information about it on
>its web site, which is:
>
>http://lynx.browser.org
>
> > but, looking ahead beyond that point, I'm wondering how
> > would I connect to the internet.
>
>Fairly simple. Please read on.
>
> > Would it be a matter of finding an ISP which accepts lynx
> > users and simply using its browser?
>
>Yes. Now, finding an ISP that accept Linux users may be
>difficult in your area, but nothing is impossible.
>
> >    And, also, I know web sites are accessed by domain names but how would a
> > lynux user access the same site? or can you? would I use an IP address
> > instead?
>
>No: any "correct" web browser will accept both a domain
>name and an IP address. For instance, if you want to
>access the web site for ACME Corporation, you can enter:
>
>http://www.acme.com
>
>or (IP equivalent):
>
>http://205.158.174.203
>
>This will work under lynx, if this was the meaning of
>your question.
>
>Linux is an advanced operating system, and most of the
>software you use under Linux is able to DNS/rDNS both
>a domain name and a TCP/IP address in a transparent
>manner. So, you don't have to use IP addresses unless
>you really want to!
>
>Hope this helps!
>
>Best Regards,
>
>--
>
>Gil Andre          gandre@arkeia.com
>          Technical Writer
>Arkeia Corp.   http://www.arkeia.com
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Blinux-list mailing list
>Blinux-list@redhat.com
>https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list

Re: Getting to the internet

[Janina Sajka]

One reason most of us will never pronounce linux as linus does
has nothing to do with th'i' sound. We don't know how to say the
'l' the same way. OK, this is an international list, and I'm sure
that are quite a few folks here that will get it right, as I
think I do given my immigrant background. But, most Americans, at
least, don't even hear the difference. Therefore, all the focus
goes to the vowel.

On Fri, 24 May 2002, L. C. Robinson wrote:

> On Thu, 23 May 2002, Gil Andre wrote:
> 
> > First of all, it's "Linux" and not "Lynux". To pronounce
> > "Linux" correctly... This has been the subject of a huge
> > number of internet debates and religious wars. <grin>
> 
> He-he... Linus himself settled this years ago (or tried to).
> Basically, he said it doesn't matter, that any of the common
> pronunciations is OK: he specifically mentioned the obvious
> anglo way, with the long "i".  It's probably in the linux FAQ 
> -- been so long I can't remember anymore for sure.
>  
> > There used to be a small sound clip with Linus Torvalds,
> > the creator of Linux, saying the "Linux" word, but I
> > can't find it right now unfortunately...
> 
> This clip is interesting, if you happen to see it floating
> about.  You won't likely find it pronounced that way in common
> usage though, and are likely as not to have to repeat yourself if
> you say it that way (unless you are from Finland).
> 
> > One very, very helpful site you may want to access is
> > the Linux Documentation Project, which has hundreds of
> > manuals covering all aspects of Linux. It can be found
> > on the Internet at the following address:
> > 
> > http://www.linuxdoc.org
> 
> You will be redirected -- the reason given on that page:
>    Same Information - Different Name. The Linux
>    Documentation Project has a new domain name. You can
>    now find the LDP on the web at tldp.org. This name
>    change came about due to....
> 
> And don't overlook the blinux FAQ (explore the links attached to
> the messages in this list to find it).
> 
> -- L. C. Robinson
> reply to no_spam+munged_lcr@onewest.net.invalid
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> 

-- 
	
				Janina Sajka, Director
				Technology Research and Development
				Governmental Relations Group
				American Foundation for the Blind (AFB)

Email: janina@afb.net		Phone: (202) 408-8175

Chair, Accessibility SIG
Open Electronic Book Forum (OEBF)
http://www.openebook.org

Re: Getting to the internet

[L. C. Robinson]

On Thu, 23 May 2002, Gil Andre wrote:

> First of all, it's "Linux" and not "Lynux". To pronounce
> "Linux" correctly... This has been the subject of a huge
> number of internet debates and religious wars. <grin>

He-he... Linus himself settled this years ago (or tried to).
Basically, he said it doesn't matter, that any of the common
pronunciations is OK: he specifically mentioned the obvious
anglo way, with the long "i".  It's probably in the linux FAQ 
-- been so long I can't remember anymore for sure.
 
> There used to be a small sound clip with Linus Torvalds,
> the creator of Linux, saying the "Linux" word, but I
> can't find it right now unfortunately...

This clip is interesting, if you happen to see it floating
about.  You won't likely find it pronounced that way in common
usage though, and are likely as not to have to repeat yourself if
you say it that way (unless you are from Finland).

> One very, very helpful site you may want to access is
> the Linux Documentation Project, which has hundreds of
> manuals covering all aspects of Linux. It can be found
> on the Internet at the following address:
> 
> http://www.linuxdoc.org

You will be redirected -- the reason given on that page:
   Same Information - Different Name. The Linux
   Documentation Project has a new domain name. You can
   now find the LDP on the web at tldp.org. This name
   change came about due to....

And don't overlook the blinux FAQ (explore the links attached to
the messages in this list to find it).

-- L. C. Robinson
reply to no_spam+munged_lcr@onewest.net.invalid

Re: Getting to the internet

[Gil Andre]

Hi!

On Thu, 23 May 2002 08:22:15 -0400, Weber wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
>    I'm new to the list and while I'm a professional programmer working on a
> mainframe, I am ignorant of Lynux and so forth (by the way, first, what is
> the correct pronunciation of lynux, please?).

Well...

First of all, it's "Linux" and not "Lynux". To pronounce
"Linux" correctly... This has been the subject of a huge
number of internet debates and religious wars. <grin>

There used to be a small sound clip with Linus Torvalds,
the creator of Linux, saying the "Linux" word, but I
can't find it right now unfortunately...

>    Next, I hope to purchase a personal-use PC next year, installing lynx on
> it. I know my first decision will be to select which brand(?) of lynx to
> use;

I suppose you mean which brand of "Linux".

Most users on this list use either Red Hat or Debian,
or Slackware. These are fairly well-know Linux "brands"
(we prefer the name "distribution") and they can be
found at:

http://www.redhat.com
http://www.debian.org
http://www.slackware.com

One very, very helpful site you may want to access is
the Linux Documentation Project, which has hundreds of
manuals covering all aspects of Linux. It can be found
on the Internet at the following address:

http://www.linuxdoc.org

If you are just talking about the program "lynx", which is
a web browser, you can have more information about it on
its web site, which is:

http://lynx.browser.org

> but, looking ahead beyond that point, I'm wondering how
> would I connect to the internet.

Fairly simple. Please read on.

> Would it be a matter of finding an ISP which accepts lynx
> users and simply using its browser?

Yes. Now, finding an ISP that accept Linux users may be
difficult in your area, but nothing is impossible.

>    And, also, I know web sites are accessed by domain names but how would a
> lynux user access the same site? or can you? would I use an IP address
> instead?

No: any "correct" web browser will accept both a domain
name and an IP address. For instance, if you want to 
access the web site for ACME Corporation, you can enter:

http://www.acme.com

or (IP equivalent):

http://205.158.174.203

This will work under lynx, if this was the meaning of
your question.

Linux is an advanced operating system, and most of the 
software you use under Linux is able to DNS/rDNS both
a domain name and a TCP/IP address in a transparent
manner. So, you don't have to use IP addresses unless
you really want to!

Hope this helps!

Best Regards,

-- 

Gil Andre          gandre@arkeia.com
         Technical Writer
Arkeia Corp.   http://www.arkeia.com

Getting to the internet

[Weber Walter M]

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Hi All,

   I'm new to the list and while I'm a professional programmer working on a
mainframe, I am ignorant of Lynux and so forth (by the way, first, what is
the correct pronunciation of lynux, please?).

   Next, I hope to purchase a personal-use PC next year, installing lynx on
it. I know my first decision will be to select which brand(?) of lynx to
use; but, looking ahead beyond that point, I'm wondering how would I connect
to the internet. Would it be a matter of finding an ISP which accepts lynx
users and simply using its browser?

   And, also, I know web sites are accessed by domain names but how would a
lynux user access the same site? or can you? would I use an IP address
instead?

Thanks,

Walt



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