Want to try a GUI. Which one is best?

Want to try a GUI. Which one is best?

[Linux for blind general discussion]

Hello,

I am using Debian command line as much as possible. When I must deal with a GUI I use Microsoft Windows 10. However, i'm getting disgusted with Microsoft's 
updates, which it makes without asking permission. they keep causing trouble with my computers. I've heard of several Linux Desktop environments, but I'm 
skeptical if they are as good as Windows. Which one would you recommend?

I want my Linux machine to continue to boot into the command line, and when I want a GUI to start it with a simple command, or maybe a shell script.

Thanks,
John

-- 
John J. Boyer
Email: john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org
website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses  live.
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM services 
        that are available at no cost

Re: Want to try a GUI. Which one is best?

[Linux for blind general discussion]

Mate 1.24 got some accessibility love as compared to mate 1.18.  That's
not available on Debian Stretch and I don't know if it's available on
sid either.  Probably available on archlinux.  Getting mate installed on
archlinux without using Jenux and expecting it to run a screen reader
isn't yet well documented.  Machine resources are ultimate controlers
mate can run on low resource machines with gnome running on high
resource machines.  The kde environment is a Construction Zone and I
expect will remain so for some time yet.  Sighted people have
accidentally turned on the screen reader in mint and posted messages
trying to get help turning it off.  I tried knoppix and admittedly it
was a live disk and couldn't figure out how to get it to install to my
hard drive.  Knoppix does come up talking and a live disk is what to use
if doing banking transactions on windows machines in public places since
it doesn't leave any of your data behind when the disk is removed and
the machine is rebooted, or that's the way it's supposed to happen.  The
ubuntu family is available and is a good way to go if you have lots of
non-standard hardware since it can probably make that work in any case.
I may have left some possibilities out but that's why we're on an email
list so others can correct where necessary and/or elaborate on this
message.

On Sun, 1 Mar 2020, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:

> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 06:17:59
> From: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> To: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> Subject: Want to try a GUI. Which one is best?
>
> Hello,
>
> I am using Debian command line as much as possible. When I must deal with a GUI I use Microsoft Windows 10. However, i'm getting disgusted with Microsoft's
> updates, which it makes without asking permission. they keep causing trouble with my computers. I've heard of several Linux Desktop environments, but I'm
> skeptical if they are as good as Windows. Which one would you recommend?
>
> I want my Linux machine to continue to boot into the command line, and when I want a GUI to start it with a simple command, or maybe a shell script.
>
> Thanks,
> John
>
>

-- 

Re: Want to try a GUI. Which one is best?

[Linux for blind general discussion]

Best I can tell, Mate 1.24 is currently available in both Debian
Testing(aka Bull's Eye which will eventually become Debian 11) and
Debian Unstable(aka Sid).

It's unlikely something as big as a new version of Mate will make it
into Debian 9 aka Stretch or oldstable or Debian 10 aka Buster or
Stable as Debian priortizes stability over cutting edge, though it
might make it into backports(more likely for Buster than for Stretch,
but I confess to not knowing how long Debian supports Oldstable when a
new Stable is released).

That said, while Orca, the primary, and possibly only, graphical
screen reader for Linux, is officially part of Gnome and persumably
optimized for that environment, and probably works so well with Mate
due to Mate's origins as a Gnome fork(as I understand it, Gnome 3
brought many controversial changes to look and feel and Mate startedas
a way to keep the Gnome 2.x look and feel in an updated environment),
Orca should, in theory, be able to work with any GTK-based Desktop
Environment or Window Manager, though anything QT-based(KDE chief
among them) is currently a bit hit or miss.

Gnome or Mate might be the best options for a beginner as they're the
most well documented DEs for using them with Orca, but Knoppix using a
combination of LXDE and Orca when launching a full Desktop seems to
work well, and I've heard people have had success with the ratpoison
window Manager.

Re: Want to try a GUI. Which one is best?

[Linux for blind general discussion]

Hello,

Thanks for all your suggestions. I have Debian Buster, command-line only. I may just wait until the next Debian testing is available and see if they include Mate. 
I 
will be using brltty, and no speech.

This leaves one concern in my original message for discussion. I want Debian to boot into the command-line, but I want to have a command or script for starting 
the GUI when I need it.

Thanks,
John J. Boyer <john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org>

On Sun, Mar 01, 2020 at 01:54:07PM +0000, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:
> Best I can tell, Mate 1.24 is currently available in both Debian
> Testing(aka Bull's Eye which will eventually become Debian 11) and
> Debian Unstable(aka Sid).
> 
> It's unlikely something as big as a new version of Mate will make it
> into Debian 9 aka Stretch or oldstable or Debian 10 aka Buster or
> Stable as Debian priortizes stability over cutting edge, though it
> might make it into backports(more likely for Buster than for Stretch,
> but I confess to not knowing how long Debian supports Oldstable when a
> new Stable is released).
> 
> That said, while Orca, the primary, and possibly only, graphical
> screen reader for Linux, is officially part of Gnome and persumably
> optimized for that environment, and probably works so well with Mate
> due to Mate's origins as a Gnome fork(as I understand it, Gnome 3
> brought many controversial changes to look and feel and Mate startedas
> a way to keep the Gnome 2.x look and feel in an updated environment),
> Orca should, in theory, be able to work with any GTK-based Desktop
> Environment or Window Manager, though anything QT-based(KDE chief
> among them) is currently a bit hit or miss.
> 
> Gnome or Mate might be the best options for a beginner as they're the
> most well documented DEs for using them with Orca, but Knoppix using a
> combination of LXDE and Orca when launching a full Desktop seems to
> work well, and I've heard people have had success with the ratpoison
> window Manager.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> 

-- 
John J. Boyer
Email: john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org
website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses  live.
Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM services 
        that are available at no cost

Re: Want to try a GUI. Which one is best?

[Linux for blind general discussion]

This is really something debian does not provide.  Archlinux that can be
done with installing a few of the correct packages and I don't remember
the list now didn't save it in braille.  Now, with slint you can do all
of that and that's one of the installation choices.  Slint doesn't have
gnome either but does have mate.
https://slint.fr/ is the first url and search the page for accessibility
and read what you find.

On Sun, 1 Mar 2020, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:

> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 12:30:57
> From: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> To: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> Subject: Re: Want to try a GUI. Which one is best?
>
> Hello,
>
> Thanks for all your suggestions. I have Debian Buster, command-line only. I may just wait until the next Debian testing is available and see if they include Mate.
> I
> will be using brltty, and no speech.
>
> This leaves one concern in my original message for discussion. I want Debian to boot into the command-line, but I want to have a command or script for starting
> the GUI when I need it.
>
> Thanks,
> John J. Boyer <john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org>
>
> On Sun, Mar 01, 2020 at 01:54:07PM +0000, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:
> > Best I can tell, Mate 1.24 is currently available in both Debian
> > Testing(aka Bull's Eye which will eventually become Debian 11) and
> > Debian Unstable(aka Sid).
> >
> > It's unlikely something as big as a new version of Mate will make it
> > into Debian 9 aka Stretch or oldstable or Debian 10 aka Buster or
> > Stable as Debian priortizes stability over cutting edge, though it
> > might make it into backports(more likely for Buster than for Stretch,
> > but I confess to not knowing how long Debian supports Oldstable when a
> > new Stable is released).
> >
> > That said, while Orca, the primary, and possibly only, graphical
> > screen reader for Linux, is officially part of Gnome and persumably
> > optimized for that environment, and probably works so well with Mate
> > due to Mate's origins as a Gnome fork(as I understand it, Gnome 3
> > brought many controversial changes to look and feel and Mate startedas
> > a way to keep the Gnome 2.x look and feel in an updated environment),
> > Orca should, in theory, be able to work with any GTK-based Desktop
> > Environment or Window Manager, though anything QT-based(KDE chief
> > among them) is currently a bit hit or miss.
> >
> > Gnome or Mate might be the best options for a beginner as they're the
> > most well documented DEs for using them with Orca, but Knoppix using a
> > combination of LXDE and Orca when launching a full Desktop seems to
> > work well, and I've heard people have had success with the ratpoison
> > window Manager.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blinux-list mailing list
> > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> >
>
>

-- 

Re: Want to try a GUI. Which one is best?

[Linux for blind general discussion]

The most useful approach for accessibility users unless they use a mouse
is to install startx and ratpoison and then have ratpoison run which
brings up startx and startx then brings up mate.  The ratpoison is a
package which when you get it working makes startx accessible more so
than it already is.

On Sun, 1 Mar 2020, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:

> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 13:02:51
> From: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> To: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> Subject: Re: Want to try a GUI. Which one is best?
>
> This is really something debian does not provide.  Archlinux that can be
> done with installing a few of the correct packages and I don't remember
> the list now didn't save it in braille.  Now, with slint you can do all
> of that and that's one of the installation choices.  Slint doesn't have
> gnome either but does have mate.
> https://slint.fr/ is the first url and search the page for accessibility
> and read what you find.
>
> On Sun, 1 Mar 2020, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:
>
> > Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 12:30:57
> > From: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> > To: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> > Subject: Re: Want to try a GUI. Which one is best?
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > Thanks for all your suggestions. I have Debian Buster, command-line only. I may just wait until the next Debian testing is available and see if they include Mate.
> > I
> > will be using brltty, and no speech.
> >
> > This leaves one concern in my original message for discussion. I want Debian to boot into the command-line, but I want to have a command or script for starting
> > the GUI when I need it.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > John J. Boyer <john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org>
> >
> > On Sun, Mar 01, 2020 at 01:54:07PM +0000, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:
> > > Best I can tell, Mate 1.24 is currently available in both Debian
> > > Testing(aka Bull's Eye which will eventually become Debian 11) and
> > > Debian Unstable(aka Sid).
> > >
> > > It's unlikely something as big as a new version of Mate will make it
> > > into Debian 9 aka Stretch or oldstable or Debian 10 aka Buster or
> > > Stable as Debian priortizes stability over cutting edge, though it
> > > might make it into backports(more likely for Buster than for Stretch,
> > > but I confess to not knowing how long Debian supports Oldstable when a
> > > new Stable is released).
> > >
> > > That said, while Orca, the primary, and possibly only, graphical
> > > screen reader for Linux, is officially part of Gnome and persumably
> > > optimized for that environment, and probably works so well with Mate
> > > due to Mate's origins as a Gnome fork(as I understand it, Gnome 3
> > > brought many controversial changes to look and feel and Mate startedas
> > > a way to keep the Gnome 2.x look and feel in an updated environment),
> > > Orca should, in theory, be able to work with any GTK-based Desktop
> > > Environment or Window Manager, though anything QT-based(KDE chief
> > > among them) is currently a bit hit or miss.
> > >
> > > Gnome or Mate might be the best options for a beginner as they're the
> > > most well documented DEs for using them with Orca, but Knoppix using a
> > > combination of LXDE and Orca when launching a full Desktop seems to
> > > work well, and I've heard people have had success with the ratpoison
> > > window Manager.
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Blinux-list mailing list
> > > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

-- 

Re: Want to try a GUI. Which one is best?

[Linux for blind general discussion]

[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8, Size: 13272 bytes --]

Ouch. All that just seems like a lot of roundabout to have to do. I install a full MATE desktop along with Orca, set org.gnome.desktop.a11y.applications screen-reader-enabled and org.mate.interface accessibility true if necessary  and use the lxdm display manager to start it. I then only have to change three lines to get a fully accessible desktop running at boot time. First, I uncomment the line that begins with autologin and set it true. Then I change the automatically logged in user from dgod to my username and uncomment that line. Then the only other thing I need to do is to uncomment the line that begins with session and change it from /usr/bin/startlxde to /usr/bin/mate-session. This approach of course doesn't work all that well on multi-user systems, but in most cases it's all you need. In this way, you always start with a desktop running, and if you need to do anything in a terminal, you can just open mate-terminal. I find myself using the terminal rather infrequently these days for anything other than building source code, complex file management that still works better from a shell and package management, although there are package management applications available for most distros that don't require a terminal and work rather well, especially for finding new software. Most applications work so well with Orca that I have found desktop applications generally easier to use than chatty terminal output and page-by-page reading and the like.

On March 1, 2020 1:07:30 PM EST, Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com> wrote:
>The most useful approach for accessibility users unless they use a
>mouse
>is to install startx and ratpoison and then have ratpoison run which
>brings up startx and startx then brings up mate.  The ratpoison is a
>package which when you get it working makes startx accessible more so
>than it already is.
>
>On Sun, 1 Mar 2020, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:
>
>> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 13:02:51
>> From: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>> To: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>> Subject: Re: Want to try a GUI. Which one is best?
>>
>> This is really something debian does not provide.  Archlinux that can
>be
>> done with installing a few of the correct packages and I don't
>remember
>> the list now didn't save it in braille.  Now, with slint you can do
>all
>> of that and that's one of the installation choices.  Slint doesn't
>have
>> gnome either but does have mate.
>> https://slint.fr/ is the first url and search the page for
>accessibility
>> and read what you find.
>>
>> On Sun, 1 Mar 2020, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:
>>
>> > Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 12:30:57
>> > From: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>> > To: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>> > Subject: Re: Want to try a GUI. Which one is best?
>> >
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > Thanks for all your suggestions. I have Debian Buster, command-line
>only. I may just wait until the next Debian testing is available and
>see if they include Mate.
>> > I
>> > will be using brltty, and no speech.
>> >
>> > This leaves one concern in my original message for discussion. I
>want Debian to boot into the command-line, but I want to have a command
>or script for starting
>> > the GUI when I need it.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > John J. Boyer <john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org>
>> >
>> > On Sun, Mar 01, 2020 at 01:54:07PM +0000, Linux for blind general
>discussion wrote:
>> > > Best I can tell, Mate 1.24 is currently available in both Debian
>> > > Testing(aka Bull's Eye which will eventually become Debian 11)
>and
>> > > Debian Unstable(aka Sid).
>> > >
>> > > It's unlikely something as big as a new version of Mate will make
>it
>> > > into Debian 9 aka Stretch or oldstable or Debian 10 aka Buster or
>> > > Stable as Debian priortizes stability over cutting edge, though
>it
>> > > might make it into backports(more likely for Buster than for
>Stretch,
>> > > but I confess to not knowing how long Debian supports Oldstable
>when a
>> > > new Stable is released).
>> > >
>> > > That said, while Orca, the primary, and possibly only, graphical
>> > > screen reader for Linux, is officially part of Gnome and
>persumably
>> > > optimized for that environment, and probably works so well with
>Mate
>> > > due to Mate's origins as a Gnome fork(as I understand it, Gnome 3
>> > > brought many controversial changes to look and feel and Mate
>startedas
>> > > a way to keep the Gnome 2.x look and feel in an updated
>environment),
>> > > Orca should, in theory, be able to work with any GTK-based
>Desktop
>> > > Environment or Window Manager, though anything QT-based(KDE chief
>> > > among them) is currently a bit hit or miss.
>> > >
>> > > Gnome or Mate might be the best options for a beginner as they're
>the
>> > > most well documented DEs for using them with Orca, but Knoppix
>using a
>> > > combination of LXDE and Orca when launching a full Desktop seems
>to
>> > > work well, and I've heard people have had success with the
>ratpoison
>> > > window Manager.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Blinux-list mailing list
>> > > Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>-- 
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Blinux-list mailing list
>Blinux-list@redhat.com
>https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list

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Subject: Re: Want to try a GUI. Which one is best?
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 14:41:04 -0600
References: <20200301111759.GA12551@abilitiessoft>
To: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
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Ubuntu Mate might be your best bet.

> On Mar 1, 2020, at 5:17 AM, Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I am using Debian command line as much as possible. When I must deal with a GUI I use Microsoft Windows 10. However, i'm getting disgusted with Microsoft's
> updates, which it makes without asking permission. they keep causing trouble with my computers. I've heard of several Linux Desktop environments, but I'm
> skeptical if they are as good as Windows. Which one would you recommend?
>
> I want my Linux machine to continue to boot into the command line, and when I want a GUI to start it with a simple command, or maybe a shell script.
>
> Thanks,
> John
>
> --
> John J. Boyer
> Email: john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org
> website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
> Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses  live.
> Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM services
>        that are available at no cost
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>

Re: Want to try a GUI. Which one is best?

[Linux for blind general discussion]

This approach is good until lxdm and/or mate run into difficulty.  Then
your computer magically turns into a paperweight unless you have a
rescue disk and know how to find the problem and recover from it.  If
you go into console and run startx to get to the graphical user
interface you're already logged in and if the graphical user interface
or any part of it does not work, you still have the command line
environment to use until you can get the graphical user interface fixed.

On Sun, 1 Mar 2020, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:

> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 15:30:17
> From: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> To: blinux-list@redhat.com
> Subject: Re: Want to try a GUI. Which one is best?
>
> Ouch. All that just seems like a lot of roundabout to have to do. I install a full MATE desktop along with Orca, set org.gnome.desktop.a11y.applications screen-reader-enabled and org.mate.interface accessibility true if necessary  and use the lxdm display manager to start it. I then only have to change three lines to get a fully accessible desktop running at boot time. First, I uncomment the line that begins with autologin and set it true. Then I change the automatically logged in user from dgod to my username and uncomment that line. Then the only other thing I need to do is to uncomment the line that begins with session and change it from /usr/bin/startlxde to /usr/bin/mate-session. This approach of course doesn't work all that well on multi-user systems, but in most cases it's all you need. In this way, you always start with a desktop running, and if you need to do anything in a terminal, you can just open mate-terminal. I find myself using the terminal rather infrequently these
  d
>  ays for anything other than building source code, complex file management that still works better from a shell and package management, although there are package management applications available for most distros that don't require a terminal and work rather well, especially for finding new software. Most applications work so well with Orca that I have found desktop applications generally easier to use than chatty terminal output and page-by-page reading and the like.
>
> On March 1, 2020 1:07:30 PM EST, Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com> wrote:
> >The most useful approach for accessibility users unless they use a
> >mouse
> >is to install startx and ratpoison and then have ratpoison run which
> >brings up startx and startx then brings up mate.  The ratpoison is a
> >package which when you get it working makes startx accessible more so
> >than it already is.
> >
> >On Sun, 1 Mar 2020, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:
> >
> >> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 13:02:51
> >> From: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> >> To: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> >> Subject: Re: Want to try a GUI. Which one is best?
> >>
> >> This is really something debian does not provide.  Archlinux that can
> >be
> >> done with installing a few of the correct packages and I don't
> >remember
> >> the list now didn't save it in braille.  Now, with slint you can do
> >all
> >> of that and that's one of the installation choices.  Slint doesn't
> >have
> >> gnome either but does have mate.
> >> https://slint.fr/ is the first url and search the page for
> >accessibility
> >> and read what you find.
> >>
> >> On Sun, 1 Mar 2020, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:
> >>
> >> > Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 12:30:57
> >> > From: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> >> > To: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
> >> > Subject: Re: Want to try a GUI. Which one is best?
> >> >
> >> > Hello,
> >> >
> >> > Thanks for all your suggestions. I have Debian Buster, command-line
> >only. I may just wait until the next Debian testing is available and
> >see if they include Mate.
> >> > I
> >> > will be using brltty, and no speech.
> >> >
> >> > This leaves one concern in my original message for discussion. I
> >want Debian to boot into the command-line, but I want to have a command
> >or script for starting
> >> > the GUI when I need it.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> > John J. Boyer <john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org>
> >> >
> >> > On Sun, Mar 01, 2020 at 01:54:07PM +0000, Linux for blind general
> >discussion wrote:
> >> > > Best I can tell, Mate 1.24 is currently available in both Debian
> >> > > Testing(aka Bull's Eye which will eventually become Debian 11)
> >and
> >> > > Debian Unstable(aka Sid).
> >> > >
> >> > > It's unlikely something as big as a new version of Mate will make
> >it
> >> > > into Debian 9 aka Stretch or oldstable or Debian 10 aka Buster or
> >> > > Stable as Debian priortizes stability over cutting edge, though
> >it
> >> > > might make it into backports(more likely for Buster than for
> >Stretch,
> >> > > but I confess to not knowing how long Debian supports Oldstable
> >when a
> >> > > new Stable is released).
> >> > >
> >> > > That said, while Orca, the primary, and possibly only, graphical
> >> > > screen reader for Linux, is officially part of Gnome and
> >persumably
> >> > > optimized for that environment, and probably works so well with
> >Mate
> >> > > due to Mate's origins as a Gnome fork(as I understand it, Gnome 3
> >> > > brought many controversial changes to look and feel and Mate
> >startedas
> >> > > a way to keep the Gnome 2.x look and feel in an updated
> >environment),
> >> > > Orca should, in theory, be able to work with any GTK-based
> >Desktop
> >> > > Environment or Window Manager, though anything QT-based(KDE chief
> >> > > among them) is currently a bit hit or miss.
> >> > >
> >> > > Gnome or Mate might be the best options for a beginner as they're
> >the
> >> > > most well documented DEs for using them with Orca, but Knoppix
> >using a
> >> > > combination of LXDE and Orca when launching a full Desktop seems
> >to
> >> > > work well, and I've heard people have had success with the
> >ratpoison
> >> > > window Manager.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > Blinux-list mailing list
> >> > > Blinux-list@redhat.com
> >> > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >--
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Blinux-list mailing list
> >Blinux-list@redhat.com
> >https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>
> ~Kyle
> _______________________________________________
> Blinux-list mailing list
> Blinux-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>
>

-- 

Re: Want to try a GUI. Which one is best?

[Linux for blind general discussion]

Neither MATE nor LXDM generally run into so much difficulty that they don't work at all. But for those times, there is Fenrir, which uses speech-dispatcher, or brltty, which can run at startup if braille is needed, and as I recall, braille is being used here. Actually, if braille is being used and speech is not, then startx is definitely not needed, because the text mode output will work until MATE starts, at which time Orca takes over using brlapi to produce braille output, and switching to a text-only console or the crash and burn of MATE should it ever happen will automatically use the running brltty with no difficulty whatsoever.

On March 1, 2020 5:18:37 PM EST, Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com> wrote:
>This approach is good until lxdm and/or mate run into difficulty.  Then
>your computer magically turns into a paperweight unless you have a
>rescue disk and know how to find the problem and recover from it.  If
>you go into console and run startx to get to the graphical user
>interface you're already logged in and if the graphical user interface
>or any part of it does not work, you still have the command line
>environment to use until you can get the graphical user interface
>fixed.
>
>On Sun, 1 Mar 2020, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:
>
>> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 15:30:17
>> From: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>> To: blinux-list@redhat.com
>> Subject: Re: Want to try a GUI. Which one is best?
>>
>> Ouch. All that just seems like a lot of roundabout to have to do. I
>install a full MATE desktop along with Orca, set
>org.gnome.desktop.a11y.applications screen-reader-enabled and
>org.mate.interface accessibility true if necessary  and use the lxdm
>display manager to start it. I then only have to change three lines to
>get a fully accessible desktop running at boot time. First, I uncomment
>the line that begins with autologin and set it true. Then I change the
>automatically logged in user from dgod to my username and uncomment
>that line. Then the only other thing I need to do is to uncomment the
>line that begins with session and change it from /usr/bin/startlxde to
>/usr/bin/mate-session. This approach of course doesn't work all that
>well on multi-user systems, but in most cases it's all you need. In
>this way, you always start with a desktop running, and if you need to
>do anything in a terminal, you can just open mate-terminal. I find
>myself using the terminal rather infrequently these
>  d
>>  ays for anything other than building source code, complex file
>management that still works better from a shell and package management,
>although there are package management applications available for most
>distros that don't require a terminal and work rather well, especially
>for finding new software. Most applications work so well with Orca that
>I have found desktop applications generally easier to use than chatty
>terminal output and page-by-page reading and the like.
>>
>> On March 1, 2020 1:07:30 PM EST, Linux for blind general discussion
><blinux-list@redhat.com> wrote:
>> >The most useful approach for accessibility users unless they use a
>> >mouse
>> >is to install startx and ratpoison and then have ratpoison run which
>> >brings up startx and startx then brings up mate.  The ratpoison is a
>> >package which when you get it working makes startx accessible more
>so
>> >than it already is.
>> >
>> >On Sun, 1 Mar 2020, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:
>> >
>> >> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 13:02:51
>> >> From: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>> >> To: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>> >> Subject: Re: Want to try a GUI. Which one is best?
>> >>
>> >> This is really something debian does not provide.  Archlinux that
>can
>> >be
>> >> done with installing a few of the correct packages and I don't
>> >remember
>> >> the list now didn't save it in braille.  Now, with slint you can
>do
>> >all
>> >> of that and that's one of the installation choices.  Slint doesn't
>> >have
>> >> gnome either but does have mate.
>> >> https://slint.fr/ is the first url and search the page for
>> >accessibility
>> >> and read what you find.
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, 1 Mar 2020, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 12:30:57
>> >> > From: Linux for blind general discussion
><blinux-list@redhat.com>
>> >> > To: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>> >> > Subject: Re: Want to try a GUI. Which one is best?
>> >> >
>> >> > Hello,
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks for all your suggestions. I have Debian Buster,
>command-line
>> >only. I may just wait until the next Debian testing is available and
>> >see if they include Mate.
>> >> > I
>> >> > will be using brltty, and no speech.
>> >> >
>> >> > This leaves one concern in my original message for discussion. I
>> >want Debian to boot into the command-line, but I want to have a
>command
>> >or script for starting
>> >> > the GUI when I need it.
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks,
>> >> > John J. Boyer <john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org>
>> >> >
>> >> > On Sun, Mar 01, 2020 at 01:54:07PM +0000, Linux for blind
>general
>> >discussion wrote:
>> >> > > Best I can tell, Mate 1.24 is currently available in both
>Debian
>> >> > > Testing(aka Bull's Eye which will eventually become Debian 11)
>> >and
>> >> > > Debian Unstable(aka Sid).
>> >> > >
>> >> > > It's unlikely something as big as a new version of Mate will
>make
>> >it
>> >> > > into Debian 9 aka Stretch or oldstable or Debian 10 aka Buster
>or
>> >> > > Stable as Debian priortizes stability over cutting edge,
>though
>> >it
>> >> > > might make it into backports(more likely for Buster than for
>> >Stretch,
>> >> > > but I confess to not knowing how long Debian supports
>Oldstable
>> >when a
>> >> > > new Stable is released).
>> >> > >
>> >> > > That said, while Orca, the primary, and possibly only,
>graphical
>> >> > > screen reader for Linux, is officially part of Gnome and
>> >persumably
>> >> > > optimized for that environment, and probably works so well
>with
>> >Mate
>> >> > > due to Mate's origins as a Gnome fork(as I understand it,
>Gnome 3
>> >> > > brought many controversial changes to look and feel and Mate
>> >startedas
>> >> > > a way to keep the Gnome 2.x look and feel in an updated
>> >environment),
>> >> > > Orca should, in theory, be able to work with any GTK-based
>> >Desktop
>> >> > > Environment or Window Manager, though anything QT-based(KDE
>chief
>> >> > > among them) is currently a bit hit or miss.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Gnome or Mate might be the best options for a beginner as
>they're
>> >the
>> >> > > most well documented DEs for using them with Orca, but Knoppix
>> >using a
>> >> > > combination of LXDE and Orca when launching a full Desktop
>seems
>> >to
>> >> > > work well, and I've heard people have had success with the
>> >ratpoison
>> >> > > window Manager.
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > _______________________________________________
>> >> > > Blinux-list mailing list
>> >> > > Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >> > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >--
>> >
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >Blinux-list mailing list
>> >Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> >https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>>
>> ~Kyle
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blinux-list mailing list
>> Blinux-list@redhat.com
>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list
>>
>>
>
>-- 
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Blinux-list mailing list
>Blinux-list@redhat.com
>https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list

~KyleFrom jdashiel@panix.com Thu Mar  5 07:21:08 2020
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Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2020 07:21:03 -0500
To: blinux-list@redhat.com
Subject: foldathome package
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on distros with this package you can run the package and donate spare
processor time to the foldathome project which is now working on a
solution to covid19.  The archlinux distro has several variations of this
package; debian probably has it, and slackware does not.



--

Re: Want to try a GUI. Which one is best?

[Linux for blind general discussion]

Hello,

Didier Spaier, Slint maintainer here.

This looks rather convoluted to me.

A lot simpler:
1. Install Slint (speech and braille are enabled during installation).
Accept the default settings when asked (start in console mode, choose
Mate as default graphical environment).
2. Start Slint.
You will be in a console, with speech and Braille active.
3. Type 'startx' when you want.
You will be in Mate with the Orca screen reader active.

At time of writing Slint ships Mate 1.22, hopefully will be upgraded to
1.24 next week.

Slint includes Compiz, with all accessibilty features set up.

To know more, read:
http://slackware.uk/slint/x86_64/slint-14.2.1/README.installation
And the docs in:
http://slackware.uk/slint/x86_64/slint-14.2.1/doc/
Beginning with:
http://slackware.uk/slint/x86_64/slint-14.2.1/doc/Accessibility/Accessibility

Questions? Register to the Slint mailing lists sending an email to:
ecartis@freelists.org
from the email address you will use to send messages to the list, with
just in the Subject line:
join slint

Best regards,
Didier

Le 01/03/2020 à 21:30, Linux for blind general discussion a écrit :
> Ouch. All that just seems like a lot of roundabout to have to do. I install a full MATE desktop along with Orca, set org.gnome.desktop.a11y.applications screen-reader-enabled and org.mate.interface accessibility true if necessary  and use the lxdm display manager to start it. I then only have to change three lines to get a fully accessible desktop running at boot time. First, I uncomment the line that begins with autologin and set it true. Then I change the automatically logged in user from dgod to my username and uncomment that line. Then the only other thing I need to do is to uncomment the line that begins with session and change it from /usr/bin/startlxde to /usr/bin/mate-session. This approach of course doesn't work all that well on multi-user systems, but in most cases it's all you need. In this way, you always start with a desktop running, and if you need to do anything in a terminal, you can just open mate-terminal. I find myself using the terminal rather infrequently these d
>  ays for anything other than building source code, complex file management that still works better from a shell and package management, although there are package management applications available for most distros that don't require a terminal and work rather well, especially for finding new software. Most applications work so well with Orca that I have found desktop applications generally easier to use than chatty terminal output and page-by-page reading and the like.
>
> On March 1, 2020 1:07:30 PM EST, Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com> wrote:
>> The most useful approach for accessibility users unless they use a
>> mouse
>> is to install startx and ratpoison and then have ratpoison run which
>> brings up startx and startx then brings up mate.  The ratpoison is a
>> package which when you get it working makes startx accessible more so
>> than it already is.
>>
>> On Sun, 1 Mar 2020, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:
>>
>>> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 13:02:51
>>> From: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>>> To: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>>> Subject: Re: Want to try a GUI. Which one is best?
>>>
>>> This is really something debian does not provide.  Archlinux that can
>> be
>>> done with installing a few of the correct packages and I don't
>> remember
>>> the list now didn't save it in braille.  Now, with slint you can do
>> all
>>> of that and that's one of the installation choices.  Slint doesn't
>> have
>>> gnome either but does have mate.
>>> https://slint.fr/ is the first url and search the page for
>> accessibility
>>> and read what you find.
>>>
>>> On Sun, 1 Mar 2020, Linux for blind general discussion wrote:
>>>
>>>> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 12:30:57
>>>> From: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>>>> To: Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@redhat.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: Want to try a GUI. Which one is best?
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for all your suggestions. I have Debian Buster, command-line
>> only. I may just wait until the next Debian testing is available and
>> see if they include Mate.
>>>> I
>>>> will be using brltty, and no speech.
>>>>
>>>> This leaves one concern in my original message for discussion. I
>> want Debian to boot into the command-line, but I want to have a command
>> or script for starting
>>>> the GUI when I need it.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> John J. Boyer <john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Mar 01, 2020 at 01:54:07PM +0000, Linux for blind general
>> discussion wrote:
>>>>> Best I can tell, Mate 1.24 is currently available in both Debian
>>>>> Testing(aka Bull's Eye which will eventually become Debian 11)
>> and
>>>>> Debian Unstable(aka Sid).
>>>>>
>>>>> It's unlikely something as big as a new version of Mate will make
>> it
>>>>> into Debian 9 aka Stretch or oldstable or Debian 10 aka Buster or
>>>>> Stable as Debian priortizes stability over cutting edge, though
>> it
>>>>> might make it into backports(more likely for Buster than for
>> Stretch,
>>>>> but I confess to not knowing how long Debian supports Oldstable
>> when a
>>>>> new Stable is released).
>>>>>
>>>>> That said, while Orca, the primary, and possibly only, graphical
>>>>> screen reader for Linux, is officially part of Gnome and
>> persumably
>>>>> optimized for that environment, and probably works so well with
>> Mate
>>>>> due to Mate's origins as a Gnome fork(as I understand it, Gnome 3
>>>>> brought many controversial changes to look and feel and Mate
>> startedas
>>>>> a way to keep the Gnome 2.x look and feel in an updated
>> environment),
>>>>> Orca should, in theory, be able to work with any GTK-based
>> Desktop
>>>>> Environment or Window Manager, though anything QT-based(KDE chief
>>>>> among them) is currently a bit hit or miss.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gnome or Mate might be the best options for a beginner as they're
>> the
>>>>> most well documented DEs for using them with Orca, but Knoppix
>> using a
>>>>> combination of LXDE and Orca when launching a full Desktop seems
>> to
>>>>> work well, and I've heard people have had success with the
>> ratpoison
>>>>> window Manager.

Re: Want to try a GUI. Which one is best?

[Linux for blind general discussion]

I have a friend most of a thousand miles away.  He is also blind and got
ubuntu with gnome installed on his system by thinkpenguin.  What I would
like to know is if sudo apt install mate mate-extra as a command will
start the process to replace gnome with mate on his machine.  He uses orca
and works lots better with the classic version of gnome and unfortunately
in 19.10 Ubuntu removed classic from the desktop list you can choose after
entering a password.



--

Re: Want to try a GUI. Which one is best?

[Linux for blind general discussion]

Mate is great but even better with Compiz under, Mate tweak is helpful to
add it but command line might be better.

Le dim. 1 mars 2020 06:54, Linux for blind general discussion <
blinux-list@redhat.com> a écrit :

> Hello,
>
> I am using Debian command line as much as possible. When I must deal with
> a GUI I use Microsoft Windows 10. However, i'm getting disgusted with
> Microsoft's
> updates, which it makes without asking permission. they keep causing
> trouble with my computers. I've heard of several Linux Desktop
> environments, but I'm
> skeptical if they are as good as Windows. Which one would you recommend?
>
> I want my Linux machine to continue to boot into the command line, and
> when I want a GUI to start it with a simple command, or maybe a shell
> script.
>
> Thanks,
> John
>
> --
> John J. Boyer
> Email: john.boyer@abilitiessoft.org
> website: http://www.abilitiessoft.org
> Status: Company dissolved but website and email addresses  live.
> Location: Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> Mission: developing assistive technology software and providing STEM
> services
>         that are available at no cost
>
>
>
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>
>