Re: FAQ Suggestions/Perceptions from a Novice--worth 2 cents.

["Jude DaShiell" <jdashiel@shellworld.net>]

I suggest you post to the list the town state or province and country in
which you live.  It's possible a linux user's group can be located a
reasonable distance from you but not without that information.  One was
located near me by a friend and it's a live group.  The zipspeak
distribution is part of the slackware distribution at least.
ftp://ftp.slackware.com/pub/slackware/slackware-7.1/zipspeak/zipspeak.zip
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Wynn" <garywynn@sugarbeet.ultimanet.com>
To: "Blinux" <blinux-list@redhat.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2000 7:37 PM
Subject: FAQ Suggestions/Perceptions from a Novice--worth 2 cents.


> Hi, Hans,
>
> Let me first begin by making a peace offering.  I am not posting this to
> diminish any person, their very considered contributions, intelligently
> presented work, or well thought out statements.  I am volunteering to be a
> novice at testing and attempting to follow any document/FAQ that is
offered
> that will help me run Linux with speech in a way that is usable for
anything
> other than a classroom exercise.
>
> I have the greatest respect to all who have contributed to the FAQ, and
who
> have helped me to get this far.  My respect is heightened, if anything, by
my
> own real frustration at finding this to be difficult.  I truly admire
anyone
> who is blind who is using Linux successfully with speech--especially when
> they are doing it unsupported by a local guru!
>
> The following are perceptions of MINE.  This is no scientific document,
but
> is offered as ONE novice's attempt to provide a perspective on why some of
us
> have difficulty with Linux.  Consider it an ethnographic offering.
>
> Let's begin by defining a *novice*.
>
> I am a novice.  That means that I am a DOS user--a good one, but that is
the
> language/system I understand.  I have read many references in linux/unix,
but
> still do not know anything about actually using it for anything.  I can do
> some academic exercises like copy files, move files, create directories,
and
> list files.
>
> I have a DOS system that meets my needs fairly well.  The limitation being
> communications and net access.  I use a provider that offers me a shell
> account on a linux system.
>
> I use Lynx to access the web.  At this moment, that is the only
significant
> access I have.
>
> I have a Linux partition with Red Hat 6.1 installed with SpeakUp, thanks
to
> Matt Campbell.  I have not been able to make much use of it due to a lack
of
> understanding as to how to do more than move around in Linux, do basic
file
> operations, and try to figure out how to make it do what I do daily--which
I
> have not been at all successful at doing, so I still use DOS for
everything.
>
> I have accessed the Blinux FAQ via Lynx from my DOS machine running Commo.
I
> have read the FAQ twice.
>
> Several impressions/challenges presented themselves to me:
>
> 1.  The FAQ is linguistically and structurally a document for a user far
more
> advanced than I now am.  By that, I mean that it offers much information,
but
> assumes that one is first, accessing it through linux!
>
> It would be nice if it offers a way to download the FAQ via lynx, which is
> how I accessed it.  I tried to capture the text, but Lynx and Commo
capture
> are not in agreement about that.  The capture file was a series of pages
with
> screens overlaying each other--useless.
>
> With out the FAQ in hand, so to speak, I have to rely on memory for
accessing
> other resources that it suggests.  It is a treasure in terms of a
reference,
> but unless I have it in my DOS machine, I have no ready way to make use of
it.
>
> 2.  I tried out the link to search the archives, and found that when it
said
> to "press <return> to activate, that I only took off on another link, and
> lost my place.  I did not try that again.
>
> I know Lynx is pretty primitive about accessing most websites, which is
> another problem with many of the resources suggested.
>
> I followed the excellent advice given by Matt in the FAQ to access
> CheapBytes.com for documentation.  I found a disk of Red Hat documentation
> for a couple of bucks, but Lynx and CheapBytes don't agree on letting me
> access any way to actually order the disk.   CheapBytes has no 800 number,
or
> alternative way to order from what I could find.  There is a method for
> faxing in an order, but with no way to download the offering, I am not
sure
> how to actually order the item.  Screen capture failed again.
>
> 4.  Several other resource lists are mentioned that are good places to
learn
> about Linux for newbies.  Wow! Just what I want!  How about a link that
lets
> me fill in my info, and sends it to the list for me?  I do not remember
the
> addresses, and did not successfully capture them.
>
> 5.  There is a mention of how to use a DOS Emulator for running DOS
programs!
>  Just what I want most to do, so I can get started doing things in a Linux
> environment, while getting around all the thousands of details I do not
know,
> by working in DOS as I need to as my files and info are all in DOS.
>
> There is no actual FAQ on how to do this.  A step by step document helping
a
> person to set this up, and truly get going using the advantages of Linux
with
> DOS data/programs would be a tremendous asset.
>
> There is a reference to using the IBM SpeakOut, but again, a step by step
FAQ
> on why this is desirable, what is involved in doing it, and some guidance
in
> actually obtaining it would be helpful.  I doubt I need it, but a newbie
is
> never sure of what is necessary and what is not.  I use a Lite Talk, and
that
> seems okay.  Is there some reason why it is less preferable to the
SpeakOut?
>
> 6.  I got a wonderful bit of advice from a highly knowledgeable person
about
> a program called ZipSpeak, that operates under DOS and lets me have access
to
> Linux while I am learning it.  I looked for the FAQ to guide me in
> finding/using it, but I did not find any reference to it.  Is this
something
> that might be added?  I would love to have that capability at present.
>
> 7.  There is mention in the FAQ of discussions in the past in regard to a
> Speech Distribution of Linux.  I witnessed one such discussion on this
list
> months ago--yes, I monitored it for many months without ever commenting.
> Most messages are so far beyond my understanding that I only barely grasp
the
> import of them.  As a knowledgeable Linux user, I am a good dog trainer.
>
> I understand why the need for such a distribution arises from time to
time.
> There is no simple manual, system, or even a step by step series of
documents
> that truly helps a person who is blind to *INDEPENDENTLY* get started with
> linux. There was with DOS.
>
> I taught myself DOS from a couple of simple silly programs like Simply,
and
> the DOS reference manual, and an RFB offering of Running MSDOS.  I wish
that
> Linux were so well organized in documentation.  There is a ton of it, but
> what is lacking is the step by step simplistic system for getting it going
in
> a productive manner that helps a novice *home*  user.
>
> I have tried for months to locate a local guru to help in tutoring me in
> Linux, or helping me with my system, but with no luck.  The best I have is
a
> local computer shop that will provide some basic help for $75 an hour--not
> helpful to me.
>
> Could this FAQ, or a series of them, set out to guide-educate the naive
DOS
> user to becoming familiar with, and knowledgeable enough with Linux, and
> related applications, so that reasonable and normal home activities might
be
> done?  Such a system has to work in terms and relational ideas similar to
> those used in references like Running MSDOS.  Terms and their relationship
to
> hardware/software have to be defined in simple ways that relate to home
use,
> and not a Unix environment.
>
> Having made some attempt to learn Linux the hard way, I have an enormous
> respect for DOS, its simplicity, its utility, its growth and capability,
that
> I never had before.  I used to swear at it as much as anyone else, but now
I
> know how really great such applications like 4DOS are!  I would love to
have
> a 4Linux!
>
> The danger is that DOS is dying. Internet providers are no longer
interested
> in shell accounts like mine, and do not support them.  My postings contain
> the date 19100, because my version of ELM on my provider's system is not
Y2K
> compliant.  Sometimes it has other glitches, as well.  It is only a matter
of
> time for such things to be eliminated in the competition among providers
to
> put everyone online. More than ever, there needs to be a simpler process
for
> educating us DOS users into the Linux environment without having to go
back
> to get yet another, graduate degree!  Most of us have a limited amount of
time
> in our lives, and spending hundreds and hundreds of hours on a new system
to
> learn the jargon and culture is not realistic for us.  What can be done to
> organize the information and guide a person through the steps in a simple
and
> hopefully, failsafe manner?
>
> 8.  Hans mentions the Deja. com as a resource.  I visited it via Lynx, and
> found it to be much like other experiences in lynx--frustrating.  I can
read
> what is there, but I could not successfully do anything but read it.  I am
> not sure even what it is for other than purchasing things that are not
> accessible.  I have never used a search engine successfully.
>
> 9.  The FAQ does do well at covering an enormous amount of information as
> concisely as it can.  It is difficult for a novice to understand what many
> things are for, and what they do for a person using them.  I read about
many
> of them, and I still do not really know. EmacSpeak makes Emacs talk, but
what
> good is Emacs as an application?  It seems to be some type of editor cum
> Desqview, but even after reading the manual for it, going through the
> tutorial, and reading a couple of references about it, I still see little
> practical use for it.  No macros??? SHUDDER!--Desqview has those.   I HAD
to
> have missed something.
>
> Thanks for considering the questions.  My Pogo computer has crashed, and
is
> not recovering.  It has Red Hat 6.1 on it, with YASR and EmacSpeak.   It
is
> probably easiest to start from scratch, and partition the drives, format a
> Dos partition first, then set up a working and usable Linux system for a
> novice.  How might this be done in a documented series of FAQ's?  I am
ready
> to volunteer to test them.  I still have my working 232 Pentium with a
> primary DOS system that I am using.  I do have a full time job--I run the
> Central Coast Northern Dog Rescue.
>
> My capabilities:  I can use Lynx, sort of, and I can, on good days, even
fTP
> a file successfully!  I am okay with email.  I know some BASIC, and some
> Forth.  I can write aliases, macros, and batch files.  I can use an editor
if
> I have access to creating macros.  I normally use the WP editor, called
ED,
> with my own macro set.  I have severe enough carpel tunnel syndrome to
find
> Emacs not to be an option at this time--too many keystrokes--and if this
is not
> heresy, I find it to be a difficult (primitive) system not within my
present
> grasp.  Remember, the newbie knows little of this language/culture, and
has
> hundreds of new items to recall/remember.  Trying to remember arcane
> keystrokes to do the simplest tasks means that one will probably avoid the
> application.  I wrote a full macro set for WP and the editor to avoid this
> precise problem.  I run 4DOS, and have an 8K alias file for that reason,
as
> well.
>
>
>
>
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